Is Kristopher Letang Hall of Fame Worthy?

[Neutrinos]

I really like the Zubov vs Letang comparison

 

[Big Phil]

Bringing this thread back to life. With the inclusion of Zubov has Letang earned his keep?

Or is he more of an Ozolinsh than Zubov?

Letang is definitely not an Ozolinsh-style of career, or player. He has noticeably surpassed that career. I can see a similar Zubov-style career by the end of it. Look, the idea that the Pens didn't need Letang to win the Cup in 2017 is crazy. Yes they won when he was injured but if you remember that defense they won with Justin Schultz logging a ton of ice time and more of a "defense by committee" sort of way. I watched them that whole postseason, and man oh man did they ever need a reliable quarterback who logged 25-30 minutes on the back end. Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Brian Dumoulin, Ron Hainsey, Olli Maataa, etc. Nothing wrong with them, they were solid, but not spectacular. Schultz did step up pretty well but this playoff run was all about Crosby and Malkin putting up big numbers and Fleury and Murray providing the goaltending. The defense was running on fumes at the end. They did it, but it wasn't easy. 2016 was easier for them and part of that was because of Letang with a big playoff run and there was more contribution up front spread around.

Letang definitely was missed in 2017. They had some lean games that spring. They seemed to struggle after a 7 game series. Game 1 vs. Ottawa was bad. So was Game 2 but they squeaked it out. Then they struggled early on vs. Nashville but still won Games 1 and 2. Remember Game 1 where they went an entire period without a shot? That was just being dead tired. This is what happens when you miss a big name defenseman like Letang. Eventually as the series wore on the Penguins played better but yeah they missed him.

He is that kind of defenseman that has a more impressive Norris resume than we might remember but he might need more at the top end to be considered more Hall worthy. Can't deny his playoff resume though.

 

[Gurglesons]

Letang is definitely not an Ozolinsh-style of career, or player. He has noticeably surpassed that career. I can see a similar Zubov-style career by the end of it. Look, the idea that the Pens didn't need Letang to win the Cup in 2017 is crazy. Yes they won when he was injured but if you remember that defense they won with Justin Schultz logging a ton of ice time and more of a "defense by committee" sort of way. I watched them that whole postseason, and man oh man did they ever need a reliable quarterback who logged 25-30 minutes on the back end. Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Brian Dumoulin, Ron Hainsey, Olli Maataa, etc. Nothing wrong with them, they were solid, but not spectacular. Schultz did step up pretty well but this playoff run was all about Crosby and Malkin putting up big numbers and Fleury and Murray providing the goaltending. The defense was running on fumes at the end. They did it, but it wasn't easy. 2016 was easier for them and part of that was because of Letang with a big playoff run and there was more contribution up front spread around.

Letang definitely was missed in 2017. They had some lean games that spring. They seemed to struggle after a 7 game series. Game 1 vs. Ottawa was bad. So was Game 2 but they squeaked it out. Then they struggled early on vs. Nashville but still won Games 1 and 2. Remember Game 1 where they went an entire period without a shot? That was just being dead tired. This is what happens when you miss a big name defenseman like Letang. Eventually as the series wore on the Penguins played better but yeah they missed him.

He is that kind of defenseman that has a more impressive Norris resume than we might remember but he might need more at the top end to be considered more Hall worthy. Can't deny his playoff resume though.

I think people also strike Letang as being inconsistent. But, from 09-10 to now I think you could argue he has been the most consistently elite offensive D in the league on the best team during that time period.

And I agree, a Penguins fan was trying to argue Ron Francis was a better all time Penguin than Letang recently. The Letang that has been a top four option on two cup runs and a third cup finalist. Hell, I think there is an argument the Penguins take it to seven games in 2008 if Therrien isn’t an idiot with his usage of Letang.

 

[Big Phil]

I think people also strike Letang as being inconsistent. But, from 09-10 to now I think you could argue he has been the most consistently elite offensive D in the league on the best team during that time period.

And I agree, a Penguins fan was trying to argue Ron Francis was a better all time Penguin than Letang recently. The Letang that has been a top four option on two cup runs and a third cup finalist. Hell, I think there is an argument the Penguins take it to seven games in 2008 if Therrien isn’t an idiot with his usage of Letang.

There are so many years where he missed time, that has been his biggest downfall I think. 2013 he probably wins a Norris in a full season. Other years where he plays 50 games for example. I think a lot changes with those full seasons, we see as a more "elite" defenseman because of that.

 

[Soundgarden]

Subban isn't ever getting into the HHOF . Letang isn't likely to either unless he can reach 750 - 800 points in his career then it might be enough to get in.

That post is a year old, before Subban's first bad season.

 

[Asheville]

Ray Whitney is a hofer. 1000 points. Cup win. Few ASG appearances.

Lulz you clearly can't distinguish between all-star game selections and post-regular season all star team selections. Ray has one such of the latter, as a 2nd team selection.

As for his Cup, he was 8th in point production for the Canes in the 2006 playoffs. Not exactly a core/critical piece.

 

[Asheville]

That's very hard to justify, he has a solid case for top 200.

No, he does not.

 

[frisco]

How much better is Doughty than Letang?

Doughty 889 gp, 611 points, 0.55 ppg. +53.
Letang 774 gp, 518 points, 0.67 ppg. +67.

Both have similar playoff resumes. Doughty is the better defender. But if Doughty is a HOF lock then Letang as a slight notch below might be a HOFer, too.

My Best-Carey

 

[Albatros]

No, he does not.

68th all-time in points despite playing through a low-scoring era, hard to see how he would not be in or close to top 200.

 

[seventieslord]

How much better is Doughty than Letang?

Doughty 889 gp, 611 points, 0.55 ppg. +53.
Letang 774 gp, 518 points, 0.67 ppg. +67.

Both have similar playoff resumes. Doughty is the better defender. But if Doughty is a HOF lock then Letang as a slight notch below might be a HOFer, too.

My Best-Carey

Kind of a perfect example of why it's not a good idea to just add up career point and +/- totals for two defensemen and treat it like a valid comparison, eh?

 

[Gurglesons]

Kind of a perfect example of why it's not a good idea to just add up career point and +/- totals for two defensemen and treat it like a valid comparison, eh?

Doughty is one of the few defensemen I’d put over Letang, but Letang is obviously having a better bookend to his career.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Doughty is one of the few defensemen I’d put over Letang, but Letang is obviously having a better bookend to his career.

Their surrounding casts obviously play a big part in that.

Doughty is the centrepiece of the Kings. Letang is the 3rd wheel of the Pens. He's a very good 3rd wheel but let's be honest, you switch Letang and Doughty, the Kings and Penguins are not reversing fortunes.

 

[ted2019]

Doughty is one of the few defensemen I’d put over Letang, but Letang is obviously having a better bookend to his career.

I put Doughty leaps and bounds over Letang.
Doughty Norris voting: 1, 2,2,3
Letang Norris voting: 3,4

Doughty Post Season AS: 1,1,2,2
Letang Post Season AS: 2,2

Letang plays with 2 of the top 10 players in the world, while Doughty has Kopitar (top 25-30 player maybe). Letang does have 3 cups to Doughty's 2.

 

[Habs10025]

That post is a year old, before Subban's first bad season.

He's still never getting into the HHOF.

 

[Soundgarden]

He's still never getting into the HHOF.

I realize that, but at the time of that post he was still a Norris caliber defenseman who hadn't hit 30 yet and showed no signs of decline.

 

[Sentinel]

the idea that the Pens didn't need Letang to win the Cup in 2017 is crazy.

And yet this is EXACTLY what they did. Maybe they "needed" him, but they won just fine without him.

 

[Asheville]

68th all-time in points despite playing through a low-scoring era, hard to see how he would not be in or close to top 200.

By that logic, you got Ron Francis and Mark Recchi in your Top 50?

 

[Albatros]

Francis top 50, Recchi top 100.

 

[sr edler]

Letang is definitely not an Ozolinsh-style of career, or player. He has noticeably surpassed that career. I can see a similar Zubov-style career by the end of it. Look, the idea that the Pens didn't need Letang to win the Cup in 2017 is crazy. Yes they won when he was injured but if you remember that defense they won with Justin Schultz logging a ton of ice time and more of a "defense by committee" sort of way. I watched them that whole postseason, and man oh man did they ever need a reliable quarterback who logged 25-30 minutes on the back end. Ian Cole, Trevor Daley, Brian Dumoulin, Ron Hainsey, Olli Maataa, etc. Nothing wrong with them, they were solid, but not spectacular. Schultz did step up pretty well but this playoff run was all about Crosby and Malkin putting up big numbers and Fleury and Murray providing the goaltending. The defense was running on fumes at the end. They did it, but it wasn't easy. 2016 was easier for them and part of that was because of Letang with a big playoff run and there was more contribution up front spread around.

Letang definitely was missed in 2017. They had some lean games that spring. They seemed to struggle after a 7 game series. Game 1 vs. Ottawa was bad. So was Game 2 but they squeaked it out. Then they struggled early on vs. Nashville but still won Games 1 and 2. Remember Game 1 where they went an entire period without a shot? That was just being dead tired. This is what happens when you miss a big name defenseman like Letang. Eventually as the series wore on the Penguins played better but yeah they missed him.

He is that kind of defenseman that has a more impressive Norris resume than we might remember but he might need more at the top end to be considered more Hall worthy. Can't deny his playoff resume though.

I was not impressed by the opposition any of those years. The big horses from the era, Chicago, LA, Boston, were all running on fumes (or were out of gas completely) for different reasons at this point. Capitals needed a Kuznetsov guy/performance to get over the hump, which they got 2 years later. Penguins were strong because they ran that Hagelin/Bonino/Kessel line and ramped up the speed and kinda scored by committee (Hörnqvist, Guentzel, et cetera). Senators led by one-legged Karlsson being so close to put them out in the semis is a slight not only at the Penguins but the whole league. You know Penguins would beat San Jose because San Jose was/is such a flawed team, but I expected the Predators to put up a better fight. Those finals were just weird/bad, teams winning easily at home, Predators not scoring a goal in the last two games. Johansen was out injured and Nashville ran with the heavy guard Colton Sissons and Frédérick Gaudreau and Carl Järnkrok as their top Cs.

 

[VanIslander]

The Pens won w/o Letang; Fleury went to the Stanley Cup Finals w/o Pittsburgh.

I’ve always thought of Letang as the Desjardins of this era. Fair?

Desjardins reminds me more of Seabrook.

 

[Beville]

The OP definitely isn’t selling it

OT goal in a series? Meh.
Almost selected for the olympics? I guess that includes every Canadian hickey player too?

 

[Big Phil]

And yet this is EXACTLY what they did. Maybe they "needed" him, but they won just fine without him.

I wouldn't say "fine" without him. They were clearly in need of a defenseman to carry the load. The guys who were stepping up weren't used to carrying that load or getting that ice time. Ottawa took them to Game 7 overtime and that should have never happened. You don't think Letang gives them more breathing room because he did during the 2016 run.

I was not impressed by the opposition any of those years. The big horses from the era, Chicago, LA, Boston, were all running on fumes (or were out of gas completely) for different reasons at this point. Capitals needed a Kuznetsov guy/performance to get over the hump, which they got 2 years later. Penguins were strong because they ran that Hagelin/Bonino/Kessel line and ramped up the speed and kinda scored by committee (Hörnqvist, Guentzel, et cetera). Senators led by one-legged Karlsson being so close to put them out in the semis is a slight not only at the Penguins but the whole league. You know Penguins would beat San Jose because San Jose was/is such a flawed team, but I expected the Predators to put up a better fight. Those finals were just weird/bad, teams winning easily at home, Predators not scoring a goal in the last two games. Johansen was out injured and Nashville ran with the heavy guard Colton Sissons and Frédérick Gaudreau and Carl Järnkrok as their top Cs.

To be fair, everytime the Pens won the Cup they beat Washington along the way. I wouldn't call beating Washington in 2016 and 2017 an easy road per se. That was beating the President's Trophy winners in back to back years. Beating Tampa in 2016 wasn't easy either. Or even San Jose. Flawed teams or not, they were still good teams. I don't think it is a knock that they won without Letang - for Letang. It was clearly easier for them in 2016 because they had him in the lineup as opposed to without him.

 

[Asheville]

Francis top 50, Recchi top 100.

Oh lord

 

[Jumptheshark]

-4X ALL Star
-Cup Finals Participant in 2008
-Eastern Conference Finalist in 2013
-Scored OT goal in game 3 of 2009 playoff series with Caps
-3X Cup Champion
-World Junior Gold
-99 Career Goals & 344 Assists respectively
-Was mentioned as a possible team Canada olympic candidate in 2014

first remove all TEAM victories and talk just about his performance

 

[Gurglesons]

first remove all TEAM victories and talk just about his performance

Lol. Is that how the HHOF works? Why is Clark Gillies in then?