Is Konstantinov the greatest Red Wing player without his number in the rafters?

sureWhyNot

Registered User
Jan 24, 2012
307
28
Chicago
Those numbers arent right, once again check your facts.

I dont know what youre talking about in regards to the all star game because I'm talking about being voted to the first and second all star team which happens at the end of the season. This has been happening forever in the NHL and Fedorov has been voted to one while Kelly has been voted to the first team 6 and second team twice. All star games dont matter, those are a gimmick. The post season all star teams do actually matter and have a voting process and specific standards for selection.

Why dont you do a little research and then come back and post in a little while

I have - and have also provided my references.

That's bizarre. I just found those numbers too. My source was Sporting Charts: NHL Goals

"This is clearly seen in the chart above where the average goals per game tumbled by a goal per game from a high in '92-'93 of 3.63 to 2.64 in '97-'97, just five seasons. Goals per game hit a low of 2.57 in the '03-'04 season just before a lockout that would cancel a full season."

Also found this one. Hockey Reference: NHL League Averages

Could you provide me with a site showing otherwise - besides DropYourGloves? I am not saying you are wrong, but I have multiple sites (more then the ones above) that say my numbers are correct.
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,771
8,327
I have - and have also provided my references.

That's bizarre. I just found those numbers too. My source was Sporting Charts: NHL Goals

"This is clearly seen in the chart above where the average goals per game tumbled by a goal per game from a high in '92-'93 of 3.63 to 2.64 in '97-'97, just five seasons. Goals per game hit a low of 2.57 in the '03-'04 season just before a lockout that would cancel a full season."

Also found this one. Hockey Reference: NHL League Averages

Could you provide me with a site showing otherwise - besides DropYourGloves? I am not saying you are wrong, but I have multiple sites (more then the ones above) that say my numbers are correct.

Your hockey reference link is the one I used. Go over their time as wings and average the scoring. Kelly played in a lower scoring league
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,983
11,630
Ft. Myers, FL
Sergei Fedorov's actual damage in a Red Wings jersey is something to consider here as well. While some of this wasn't tracked like OT winners for a guy like Kelly, Sergei lights up the Wings record book.

In 908 Games

He is 5th all-time in points 954
4th in Goals 400
First in overtime goals 12
5th in assists, Datsyuk and Zetterberg should pass him there
Second in +/- (I hate that stat and it wasn't kept way back when)
4th in PP goals
2nd SH goals
2nd GWG

Now a bunch of those aren't kept for Howe and the boys, but his place in the Red Wings record books is pretty well entrenched.

He also was above a point per game player while with the Wings in the post-season. Where he is the franchises third leading scorer narrowly edging out Gordie Howe. In eight more games he had five more points, so not a ridiculous difference if people are going to point to the games played between the two.

5th in goals (Zetterberg has already passed him for fourth)
3rd in assists

He was also the best player on our team for much of his tenure. That is not a shot at Stevie, but I think you can argue Fedorov was the most talented guy on that team. You would never argue Kelly over Howe, so when people point out Kelly was the second best player on the team as a selling point I find that interesting, because you could throw down a big argument that Sergei was the best player on our team. Many did be that Bowman or Gretzky and other opposing players.

As always they should both be retired anyway, so who deserves it more isn't real productive, they both deserve it. But I do give a slight edge to Fedorov.

Quackenbush and Stewart won a lot of first or second team all-stars such was life back then. It is a lot harder to get that today.
 
Last edited:

nik jr

Registered User
Sep 25, 2005
10,798
7
I have - and have also provided my references.

That's bizarre. I just found those numbers too. My source was Sporting Charts: NHL Goals

"This is clearly seen in the chart above where the average goals per game tumbled by a goal per game from a high in '92-'93 of 3.63 to 2.64 in '97-'97, just five seasons. Goals per game hit a low of 2.57 in the '03-'04 season just before a lockout that would cancel a full season."

Also found this one. Hockey Reference: NHL League Averages

Could you provide me with a site showing otherwise - besides DropYourGloves? I am not saying you are wrong, but I have multiple sites (more then the ones above) that say my numbers are correct.
http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php

http://hockeyanalytics.com/2009/02/the-eras-of-the-nhl/

there is a big difference between goals per game by both teams and goals per game by 1 team. your numbers for red kelly are goals per game by both teams, but your numbers for fyodorov are goals per game by 1 team.
 

BSHH

HSVer & Rotflügel
Apr 12, 2009
2,155
279
Hamburg
Aren't there rumors that there were prostitutes in that limo? That might make it hard to put up a #16 banner.
Even if there were - what would be different with regard to Konstantinov's legacy as a player? Do you think star players live like monks, especially when celebrating a Stanley Cup win?

Red Kelly and Сергей Викторович Фёдоров (since someone demanded the correct spelling) have been clearly better players. Both also fit the HoF member-distinction, which was mentioned to explain the status of Larry Aurie's number.

May we assume that Datsyuk's and Zetterberg's numbers are awaiting retirement as well? Both players seem to be on a promising path to a HoF induction.

Gruß,
BSHH
 

newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,771
8,327
Sergei Fedorov's actual damage in a Red Wings jersey is something to consider here as well. While some of this wasn't tracked like OT winners for a guy like Kelly, Sergei lights up the Wings record book.

In 908 Games

He is 5th all-time in points 954
4th in Goals 400
First in overtime goals 12
5th in assists, Datsyuk and Zetterberg should pass him there
Second in +/- (I hate that stat and it wasn't kept way back when)
4th in PP goals
2nd SH goals
2nd GWG

Now a bunch of those aren't kept for Howe and the boys, but his place in the Red Wings record books is pretty well entrenched.

He also was above a point per game player while with the Wings in the post-season. Where he is the franchises third leading scorer narrowly edging out Gordie Howe. In eight more games he had five more points, so not a ridiculous difference if people are going to point to the games played between the two.

5th in goals (Zetterberg has already passed him for fourth)
3rd in assists

He was also the best player on our team for much of his tenure. That is not a shot at Stevie, but I think you can argue Fedorov was the most talented guy on that team. You would never argue Kelly over Howe, so when people point out Kelly was the second best player on the team as a selling point I find that interesting, because you could throw down a big argument that Sergei was the best player on our team. Many did be that Bowman or Gretzky and other opposing players.

As always they should both be retired anyway, so who deserves it more isn't real productive, they both deserve it. But I do give a slight edge to Fedorov.

Quackenbush and Stewart won a lot of first or second team all-stars such was life back then. It is a lot harder to get that today.

I would agree Fedorov seemed like the most talented on the team for a good chunk of his career after Stevie slowed down but no offense to Stevie he was no Gordie Howe so that point doesnt really matter. We're talking about the 3rd best player of all time, Yzerman isnt close to Howe really in that sense.

Fedorov while being the most talented ended up being a 65 point center for most of his time with Detroit though, he didnt apply himself consistently. And one thing we're all kind of forgetting that even after the on ice accomplishments are argued, Fedorov still left the team the way he did
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad