Is keeping Wilson with the team the right decision?

[KevinM]

yup. go back and look again at shanahan's breakdown on the hit he got the major penalty for. Wilson played that situation by the numbers. its just the kind of play where rookies make mistakes. instead that was a how to tutorial.

his decision making has become quite good as the season has progressed. he plays like garbage?? come on.

Eh, seeing it broken down it was a good hit but at the same time he drew a major penalty and a game misconduct for it so it's hard to praise that.

 

[Liberati0n*]

That's your proof that his decision-making has "become quite good"? Seriously?

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

yup. go back and look again at shanahan's breakdown on the hit he got the major penalty for. Wilson played that situation by the numbers. its just the kind of play where rookies make mistakes. instead that was a how to tutorial.

his decision making has become quite good as the season has progressed. he plays like garbage?? come on.

I said he plays with garbage. And he does.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm sure your experience is relevant here.

Wilson has performed about as poorly as possible and he plays with garbage. At best he gets an I here. But I'm not buying that he benefits from spending time with professionals known for their lack of professionalism or from practicing with better players known to have poor practice habits.

THE experience is relevant, not MY experience. Seems like common knowledge to me (playing up against higher competition if you're able to hold your own physically).


I think this is where it becomes clear that fan expectations are way out of whack here. You're suggesting he's "performed as poorly as possible" while everyone I've heard talk about him (reporters and TV guys for other teams when the Caps play) the perception is quite different.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

THE experience is relevant, not MY experience. Seems like common knowledge to me (playing up against higher competition if you're able to hold your own physically).


I think this is where it becomes clear that fan expectations are way out of whack here. You're suggesting he's "performed as poorly as possible" while everyone I've heard talk about him (reporters and TV guys for other teams when the Caps play) the perception is quite different.

I don't think my expectations are out of whack. 4 points through half a season is just about as bad as an NHL caliber forward can do.

If you want to judge him on how well he punches NHLers in the face, then he's excellent.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm certainly not judging a 4th liner by his point production. Out of whack indeed.


As a 4th line energy guy he's been fantastic. I can only judge him on his current role, not some fantasy version of it.

 

[Langway]

Fantastic is overstating it. As far as being a solid team-first guy that sticks up for his teammates, sure, but not as an energy player overall. Part of it's because he's largely played with two sub-replacement level players in Volpatti & Beagle. It's fair to cut him some slack in light of that. Often times that line has issues just getting pucks deep, nevermind outworking and galvanizing the team.

An average 7:02 of TOI would have been a disappointing estimate coming into the year and there are no signs that's going to change. Everyone in front of him on the depth chart has been healthy but he also hasn't shown signs of growing beyond his current usage. Power forwards take a while so it's not surprising but I would have hoped for more flashes of potential. (Although, again, it's hard to make every shift count when so few teammates do...) It goes back to my original assessment: if the team isn't playing a smart, tight brand of hockey then it's not a good environment for him to develop overall. Maybe it is better than junior nonetheless but it's still pretty far from ideal.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You're right, fantastic was a bit much. I'll go with "good in a 4th line role".

 

[RandyHolt]

I think its short sighted to think he is not learning in practice time going against the NHLs... I can't believe i am actually typing this... against the best of the best defensemen in the world. Yeah ok try not to laugh. But my point stands. He is not practicing against a 16 year old bean pole.

I do not see his offensive skills increasing significantly regardless of TOI nor do I see them degrading. If you think he is going to forget his current puck skills, i call bunk. I play once a year and I can do all my same tricks as 20 years ago.

You want him on the PP to develop those skills, well.... isn't that really easy to do in practice?

Give him the max TOI you want. 18 good? Add it all up for a year. Lets say 1500 minutes = 25 hours. Now compare that to all the total practice time he gets in that year. Include pregame, warmups, everything. He probably gets 25 hours before the season even begins.

Of course he is developing and learning between games. Lucky for us, all the things others HAVE to learn IN games by playing, like hitting and fighting, destroying opponents , he already knows.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I'm certainly not judging a 4th liner by his point production. Out of whack indeed.


As a 4th line energy guy he's been fantastic. I can only judge him on his current role, not some fantasy version of it.

I'd only judge a 4th liner by point production when he's tied for 500th or so. It's so low that it's a problem.

For his current role of punching players in the face, yeah he's pretty good. But that still isn't a good use of his time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd only judge a 4th liner by point production when he's tied for 500th or so. It's so low that it's a problem.

For his current role of punching players in the face, yeah he's pretty good. But that still isn't a good use of his time.

I guess that's where the professionals disagree. At least the ones running the Caps.


At least we've moved off of "he's played as poorly as possible" to measuring him correctly.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I guess that's where the professionals disagree. At least the ones running the Caps.


At least we've moved off of "he's played as poorly as possible" to measuring him correctly.

A goal in 42 games is about as poorly as an NHLer can do (Hi Erat!). Latta has been much better in the same role and was actually improving as a player before he got hurt.

If you want to use the decision making of the Caps brass as proof of your position, then we agree to disagree.

 

[KevinM]

John Scott has as many goals as Wilson with only 24 GP

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

A goal in 42 games is about as poorly as an NHLer can do (Hi Erat!). Latta has been much better in the same role and was actually improving as a player before he got hurt.

If you want to use the decision making of the Caps brass as proof of your position, then we agree to disagree.

Proof of what's going on is about all it is.

If you're measuring 4th liners on production, we'll agree to disagree right now. Completely off base if you take into account his linemates and ice time. At best production alone is a poor criteria to measure him on right now.

My position as it relates to Wilson, is and always will be that you're not necessarily ruining or stunting a physically mature young player by bringing him along slowly at a higher level.

 

[Hivemind]

Practice is not the same as a game situation. Not even close.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Practice is not the same as a game situation. Not even close.

You're right, practice is a much better opportunity for learning and being "coached up" than 6 mins of time a game to go mash people. I'm guessing in practice he does next to none of what his role is in a live game.

 

[Zorak]

I don't care about his production, I care about what he does with the puck in the offensive zone. And he does NOTHING. One more season like this for Wilson, and it will be a problem, IMO. Right now it's way too early to evaluate him, of course. Maybe he's just a slow starter.

 

[RandyHolt]

As a 4th liner his job is not to possess the puck in the offensive zone.

Even if it were, he would hardly be the only failing at being strong on the puck. At least as a rookie, he has an excuse.

Grade him on what he does with the puck when he is put in a place to show you. Sadly, outside of PP time in 1 blowout, Oates isn't giving him more than dump and hit responsibilities.

The team is a mess yet Oates is hesitant to give the kid more time. He has met reasonable expectation yet Oates sees no rush in finding the ceiling.

 

[txpd]

i watched his presser today. Oates indicates that if there was an opportunity to give a player more pp ice time/more offensive ice time that "Fehrsie" deserves that.

I see lots of reasons to question Oates, but deciding in a tie or one goal game which almost all caps games seem to be that giving a kid some prime power play time for the hell of it to see what he's got isn't a highly logical move for any coach.

I expected there to be more injuries in this schedule condensed Olympic season and it hasn't happened yet. I stress, yet. The Caps have 6 games in 9 nights coming.

 

[Liberati0n*]

i watched his presser today. Oates indicates that if there was an opportunity to give a player more pp ice time/more offensive ice time that "Fehrsie" deserves that.

I see lots of reasons to question Oates, but deciding in a tie or one goal game which almost all caps games seem to be that giving a kid some prime power play time for the hell of it to see what he's got isn't a highly logical move for any coach.

I expected there to be more injuries in this schedule condensed Olympic season and it hasn't happened yet. I stress, yet. The Caps have 6 games in 9 nights coming.

I thought Fehrsie was 5th on the RW depth chart?

 

[Ajax1995]

Honestly after talking to a couple of my brothers WHL friends they really make it sound like even practising against NHL players everyday develops you a lot quicker than playing against junior players...

This explains why so many teams choose to fill their spare roster spots with prospects in order to accelerate their development...

 

[NeilYoung]

This explains why so many teams choose to fill their spare roster spots with prospects in order to accelerate their development...

It happens a decent amount.

And I'd trust there opinion more than some random guy who probably has barely ever played the game

 

[Ajax1995]

It happens a decent amount.

And I'd trust there opinion more than some random guy who probably has barely ever played the game.

And I trust the people who argue this point professionally on HNIC, in the Hockey News, and other well respected areas of the hockey media more than a guy who apparently doesn't know the difference between there and their.

If what you are claiming is true there would never be a question of whether it is better for a guy to be sent back to juniors to get tons of ice time or play little in the NHL but there is every year. Why do you think that is?

Name one guy eligible to be returned to juniors who was kept in the NHL to mostly be a spare.

The last guy who was handled that way I can think of was Eminger and it is pretty much universally agreed that was absolutely terrible for his development.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I've missed all the professionals bemoaning the decision. All the non-Caps broadcasts I've seen, they're usually gushing over Wilson.

 

[Ajax1995]

I've missed all the professionals bemoaning the decision. All the non-Caps broadcasts I've seen, they're usually gushing over Wilson.

I'm not talking about this decision specifically.

I am simply saying every year there are discussions coming out of training camp by seasoned professional broadcasters/journalists about whether it is better to keep Player X in the NHL or send Player Y back to juniors.

The discussion usually comes down to how much playing time they think the player will receive in the NHL and if they weren't going to see enough, whatever that amount is deemed to be, then sending them down is often thought of as best for their development. If simply practicing with NHLers as opposed to playing a lot in juniors was indeed better for development then these discussions would not be taking place.