Is it time to blow it up?

[Beef Invictus]

All of the alumni they hire for different positions and they miss the most useful one in Brind'Amour.

Rod is smart. Would have taken one look at this place and said "no."

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The legend of AV's "great" season has gotten pretty comical at this point. They had a good stretch of like 20 games. They've by in large been bad under him. We've seen what needs to be seen.

 

[deadhead]

Yandle can barely stay on his skates. You can pretend he's still functioning as a PP QB, but that's all it would be, a pretense. Atkinson doesn't have a single PPP all season.

Maybe you should try watching the Arizona and CBJ powerplays the Philly rejects are piling up actual points on. They are functional and create genuine scoring chances, unlike the Flyers PP since game 5.

Scoring points is stochastic, like our first five games! Flyers are creating scoring chances, they're just not scoring.

Ghost is nothing special on the PP in Arizona, no different than he was here his last few years, and not much better than Provorov - people still hang on to the memories of Ghost 2015-2018, those days are long gone.

Voracek is no better on the PP in CBJ than he was here. He's a good passer who can't shoot and teams play him that way.

Yandle could be better, but the problem is he needs to play less at 5x5, that's how Florida got a good season out of him last year - shelter him and keep his minutes down.

Point is whatever the problem with the Flyers, it's not due to Fletcher's offseason.
The talent is different but about the same before injuries.

Atkinson shoots, Voracek passes, both are subpar at 5x5, Atkinson good on the PK, Voracek good on the PP, both are grossly overpaid.

Ghost is MacDonald on the Islanders, a solid 3rd pair D-man getting 1st pair minutes.
Risto has turned into a solid 2nd pair RHD so far, and Sanheim is having a good season paired with him.

Brassard or Raffl?
Yandle or Hagg?
Thompson or Patrick? (Patrick was -30 on merit last year, Thompson won't get close to that)
MacEwen or NAK?

 

[Flyer lurker]

Scoring points is stochastic, like our first five games! Flyers are creating scoring chances, they're just not scoring.

Ghost is nothing special on the PP in Arizona, no different than he was here his last few years, and not much better than Provorov - people still hang on to the memories of Ghost 2015-2018, those days are long gone.

Voracek is no better on the PP in CBJ than he was here. He's a good passer who can't shoot and teams play him that way.

Yandle could be better, but the problem is he needs to play less at 5x5, that's how Florida got a good season out of him last year - shelter him and keep his minutes down.

Point is whatever the problem with the Flyers, it's not due to Fletcher's offseason.
The talent is different but about the same before injuries.

Atkinson shoots, Voracek passes, both are subpar at 5x5, Atkinson good on the PK, Voracek good on the PP, both are grossly overpaid.

Ghost is MacDonald on the Islanders, a solid 3rd pair D-man getting 1st pair minutes.
Risto has turned into a solid 2nd pair RHD so far, and Sanheim is having a good season paired with him.

Brassard or Raffl?
Yandle or Hagg?
Thompson or Patrick? (Patrick was -30 on merit last year, Thompson won't get close to that)
MacEwen or NAK?

Flyers generated plenty of scoring chances 11 of 12 games they scored 2 or less non empty net goals. Man AV is sooooo unlucky. TBL, CAL and TOR games were so freaking unlucky.

Flyers pp is special. Problem is its short bus special

Voracek one point short of ppg player. Who is that on Flyers? G and no one else is close.

Yandle is almost as good as Ghost. Dr evil says rightttttt

Only way Nate doesn't get -25 is by injury or sitting in press box.

Not player on this roster under 30 is progressing. NOT ONE PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[He Is Knocking]

Please let me know one person affiliated with this franchise in any way that you trust to even do a mediocre job with a rebuild. The cupboard is bare, no competence at all. I told you all Chuck would ride it out than hemorrhage pics in an effort to save his own skin.


Only a rebuild that starts with firing everyone in the building has a chance at success. This is what we are friends.

 

[deadhead]

The cupboard is not bare, Hextall left a lot of talent behind, but for a number of reasons, COVID, injuries, late bloomers, the bulk of his 2016-2018 drafts are a year or so away. And that's the lack of depth that injuries exposed this season. Say they resign G and Risto and move JVR this offseason, and the one year guys are gone:

G - Couts - TK
Farabee - Hayes - Atkinson
Lindblom - Frost - Allison
Laughton - Laczynski - MacEnew
Willman

Provorov - Ellis
Sanheim - Risto
York - Zamula

Hart - Fedotov

AHL
Lycksell - Desnoyers - Foerster
N Cates - JOB - Wisdom
Ratcliffe - Rubtsov - Sushko
??? - Bunnaman - Brodzinski

Hogberg - Attard
Millman - St Ivany
Zech - Clendening

Ersson - Sandstrom - Ustimenko

 

[Lindberg]

The cupboard is not bare, Hextall left a lot of talent behind, but for a number of reasons, COVID, injuries, late bloomers, the bulk of his 2016-2018 drafts are a year or so away.

What year are you living in?

 

[FlyerNutter]

I will never understand the complacency of simply maintaining the status quo. Keeping clearly failed coaches when other clubs show a willingness to move on. Expecting a trickle of secondary talent infusion to somehow truly propel this club forward, with yet again picking around the middle of the first round.

Just how low are the standards in Comcast’s Philadelphia?

The time for patience, is long over.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Biggest mistakes:

1) Not hiring Trotz
2) Not hiring Sutter

Sutter was only ever coming back to coach Calgary, but not taking a shot at Trotz was definitely a mistake.

The bigger mistake was replacing Hextall with Fletcher, though.

 

[BillDineen]

Sutter was only ever coming back to coach Calgary, but not taking a shot at Trotz was definitely a mistake.

The bigger mistake was replacing Hextall with Fletcher, though.

... And not Zito

 

[sauce88]

Sutter was only ever coming back to coach Calgary, but not taking a shot at Trotz was definitely a mistake.

The bigger mistake was replacing Hextall with Fletcher, though.

Hextall's firing was self-inflicted. He could have bought himself another season or two if he rightfully threw Hakstol under the bus.

 

[dragonoffrost]

It's not blowing it up as this cycle really goes back to Holmgren as a GM you can blame Fletcher all you want but really you can go back to the 80's teams and see the same shit. I don't get why people just pile on Fletcher/AV et al as it's been decades of the same hamster wheel.

 

[FlyerNutter]

... And not Zito

Perhaps I’m lying to myself, but one has to think if they miss the playoffs (which apparently is all that’s needed to be labeled as successful), that Fletcher is gone as well.

I don’t trust Scott to evaluate, but whenever a new regime steps in the president of hockey operations cannot share the GM title.

There is clearly very little oversight, and accountability in those offices. Fletcher has been operating with impunity, and so did Hextall with Hak.

The issues here are very much beyond the players on ice.

 

[RANKKA]

yes blow it up and by that i mean sell the team fire every single member of the coaching staff ban holmgren from the city

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

Hextall's firing was self-inflicted. He could have bought himself another season or two if he rightfully threw Hakstol under the bus.

My point wasn't that Hextall didn't deserve to be fired (he absolutely did), but that Chuck Fletcher should not have been the person to replace him.

 

[mize370]

We are all missing the most obvious problem with this team. How not one player has improved in any way with this coaching staff teaching them. Not one. Everyone and now including coots look lost and have no idea where they should be on the ice. Total regression for any player that comes here. As i have stated before. This staff would have McDavid down to an 80 point level of play also.

Voracek wanting out makes more and more sense. He was the smart one.

 

[FlyerNutter]

It's not blowing it up as this cycle really goes back to Holmgren as a GM you can blame Fletcher all you want but really you can go back to the 80's teams and see the same shit. I don't get why people just pile on Fletcher/AV et al as it's been decades of the same hamster wheel.

For me personally, it’s because we do see examples in the league of improvement with coaching, or general manager changes. Colorado is easy to point at but imagine if they had stayed loyal to Roy, who by all accounts was far too “pro veteran/“, and trying to negatively influence Sakic. Florida is an example of a positive change with a new general manager, and other examples do exist out there.

I wasn’t alive in the 80s, but I’d bet my ass this perpetual complacency wouldn’t have continued under our former ownership.

There has been a definite shift since the passing of Snider (who did indeed have faults), and none of it positive. Scott needs to interject himself at some point, because he has shown for two GM’s now he doesn’t have a clue about when to mandate a change.

 

[pooch]

Probably.

 

[dragonoffrost]

For me personally, it’s because we do see examples in the league of improvement with coaching, or general manager changes. Colorado is easy to point at but imagine if they had stayed loyal to Roy, who by all accounts was far too “pro veteran/“, and trying to negatively influence Sakic. Florida is an example of a positive change with a new general manager, and other examples do exist out there.

I wasn’t alive in the 80s, but I’d bet my ass this perpetual complacency wouldn’t have continued under our former ownership.

There has been a definite shift since the passing of Snider (who did indeed have faults), and none of it positive. Scott needs to interject himself at some point, because he has shown for two GM’s now he doesn’t have a clue about when to mandate a change.

Fun fact it did happen under Mr Snider and those who were the issues, Clarke and Holmgren, got moved up the corporate ladder and the results continued to be middling finishes most years with a cup run every so often but not consistently.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Fun fact it did happen under Mr Snider and those who were the issues, Clarke and Holmgren, got moved up the corporate ladder and the results continued to be middling finishes most years with a cup run every so often but not consistently.

I refuse to believe, that was the ownership more competent this team would have continued on with Hakstol for as long as they did, or with Vigneault. There is nobody to answer to, and no accountability for a long time now for those who don't lace up every game.

These are just small examples, as it's really the overall direction/plan that's the issue in Philadelphia. Who the hell believes there is an actual window here? That the current plan of trying to make a run at anything is one that's based in reality.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Chuck Fletcher hadn't even started with his turnaround in terms of swiping out the stink that Hextall left until this season.
Too early to tell. I still trust him and Flahr to judge current NHL players and construct a competitive roster. They do more good than bad in my books.

AV is raising levels of concern for sure.
Not just for the system that he has implemented but even more for failing to get the best of younger players like Konecny, Farabee, Provorov, Sanheim... those are considered the pillars to build onto.

We don't even have to talk about Therien and Lappy anymore as everyone agrees that they should have been fired long ago.

Just to make sure you are aware, fletcher also makes the decisions about who are the coaches.

 

[Embiid]

The cupboard is not bare, Hextall left a lot of talent behind, but for a number of reasons, COVID, injuries, late bloomers, the bulk of his 2016-2018 drafts are a year or so away. And that's the lack of depth that injuries exposed this season. Say they resign G and Risto and move JVR this offseason, and the one year guys are gone:

G - Couts - TK
Farabee - Hayes - Atkinson
Lindblom - Frost - Allison
Laughton - Laczynski - MacEnew
Willman

Provorov - Ellis
Sanheim - Risto
York - Zamula

Hart - Fedotov

AHL
Lycksell - Desnoyers - Foerster
N Cates - JOB - Wisdom
Ratcliffe - Rubtsov - Sushko
??? - Bunnaman - Brodzinski

Hogberg - Attard
Millman - St Ivany
Zech - Clendening

Ersson - Sandstrom - Ustimenko

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Now check out who Fletcher has brought in as a clue to how that will go going forward.

Hint: you know how the team is getting steadily worse? He and his moves are the reason.

Bro he got Nisky who was good for like 3 months before being absolute dog shit in the bubble. If you can't admit that this is a great team and fletcher a great GM based on 3 months of play 2 years ago then you're just being dishonest.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I was told Fletcher wouldn't do all the things he's done and which I feared he would do.

 

[deadhead]

Actually, Myers and Sanheim were actual dogshit in the bubble, Niskanen wasn't nearly as good as the regular season, but was still our best defenseman in the bubble.