Is it time to admit that Laine might be better than Eichel?

[Gurilla]

Some people really can't stomach seeing Laine do well apparently. Reeks of insecurity in here.

 

[surixon]

It is not about what each of Keller, Sergachev, Laine and McAvoy have done thus far in their careers. Laine deserved 2nd place in Calder voting last year. I wouldn’t dispute that.

The fact is all of these players are just beginning their careers, and all are playing at roughly the same level for their respective positions, and only Laine is not going to be a center or defenseman going forward. That’s enough to place Laine at #5 for me. The burden will be on Laine to show he is heads and shoulders above the others, and he isn’t doing that.

I have followed Laine’s play this year, because I am interested in watching young players play. There are many holes in his game, and many Jets fans have agreed all season long. He hasn’t been assertive, he hasn’t been moving his legs, he hasn’t cycled the puck. All of these are common criticisms of Laine made by Jets fans. He is a great power play shooter, but that’s not enough to be ranked #2 in his draft class.

Let’s watch more hockey throughout the season. I am sure the bundle of Keller, Sergachev, Laine and McAvoy will eventually separate themselves from each other one way or another.

Well of course he has holes in his game. Despite the numerous holes he is scoring at a 40 goal and 70 point pace. What does he look like when he's rounded out his game, added muscle to his large frame and improved his foot speed? He likely looks like a 50g 50a player that can dominate physically with his size. He's already shown substantial growth in his own end this season and is one of our better backcheckers. The kid is incredibly driven to be the best so yes let us wait and see what happens moving forward

Its not just about what he and everyone else has done to date but about projection and Laine is ahead and has significant room for growth.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Some people really can't stomach seeing Laine do well apparently. Reeks of insecurity in here.

Yes it does, it's impossible for a Laine thread to exist without his fans comparing him to Matthews. Poor Eichel gets ignored again.

 

[JustaFinnishGuy]

Ohhhh no my friend. If you can't understand a concept as simple as spreading out scoring, then I am not going to give you the benefit of context.

It's not a unique concept.

Fiala > Forsberg?????
Nashville Predators Line Combinations

Brown & Hyman > Marner, Nylander, Marleau & JVR??????
Toronto Maple Leafs Line Combinations

Johnson > Kucherov??????
Tampa Bay Lightning Line Combinations

Sobotka > Schwartz????
St Louis Blues Line Combinations


It's almost as if, and stick with me here because things are gonna get CRAZY, but it's almost as if teams don't put all their deadliest weapons on the same line. Mind....blown!

Sorry but Forsberg is on The 2nd line just because Johansen is hurt. The 1st line is rolling because of Turris and they all hot The bump because of their chemistry.
These lineups are also very frequently wrong.

 

[Gurilla]

Yes it does, it's impossible for a Laine thread to exist without his fans comparing him to Matthews. Poor Eichel gets ignored again.

Never understood how Jets fans would be in a position of insecurity, we were never in place to pick #1. If our guy beats #1 that's great, if not well that was never our pick to begin with and there's no control over that.

Leafs fans on the other hand had the choice and if their guy gets outplayed by #2, that's where the insecurity can kick in. The guy you're defending right now actually pretended to be a Jets fan on the Jets board and downplayed Laine before he was exposed. He got a permanent Avatar as a prize out of it too lol.

 

[JetsFan815]

I don't see any anti-Laine posts in this thread but I see a ton of people defending Laine. So my guess is that it's that one Leafs guy that I have on ignore who created a fake account to troll and impersonate TWS (and whose troll account got embarrassingly caught and banned) doing this with his main account?

You guys should do the same as me. The ignore list is a great feature.

There are only 3 people on my ignore list:

BallStreeBully or whatever his name is
Psychodad- a Laine homer
and another guy who I am not sure why I put him on that list

These boards are a great place without having to see their posts!

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Some people really can't stomach seeing Laine do well apparently. Reeks of insecurity in here.

the only people who can't seem to handle it are some of his supporters. He has a string of a couple good games and suddenly he's the best player from his draft and everyone knew it all along

 

[TheDoldrums]

Never understood how Jets fans would be in a position of insecurity, we were never in place to pick #1. If our guy beats #1 that's great, if not well that was never our pick to begin with and there's no control over that.

Leafs fans on the other hand had the choice and if their guy gets outplayed by #2, that's where the insecurity can kick in. The guy you're defending right now actually pretended to be a Jets fan on the Jets board and downplayed Laine before he was exposed. He got a permanent Avatar as a prize out of it too lol.

I'm not defending anyone. But I saw this coming and I tried to stop it much earlier in the thread. Guys like the Winter Soldier make every Laine thread about him being the best in his draft class, it's only natural for other fans to defend their own guy.

Honestly there hasn't been much talk about Laine in Matthews threads this year because Leafs fans aren't constantly comparing them.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Well of course he has holes in his game. Despite the numerous holes he is scoring at a 40 goal and 70 point pace. What does he look like when he's rounded out his game, added muscle to his large frame and improved his foot speed? He likely looks like a 50g 50a player that can dominate physically with his size. He's already shown substantial growth in his own end this season and is one of our better backcheckers. The kid is incredibly driven to be the best so yes let us wait and see what happens moving forward

Its not just about what he and everyone else has done to date but about projection and Laine is ahead and has significant room for growth.

While I disagree with your Laine projection, it’s fair to assume that Laine will nonetheless improve upon what he is now. It’s my opinion that Keller, Sergachev and McAvoy will improve just as much, possibly more, and yet they will play the more important positions going forward.

Historically, teams have won with elite strength up the middle and on the blue line. That’s exactly what Keller, Sergachev and McAvoy are shaping up to be. Laine was better in 2016, compares well in 2017, but it’s possible he may be left in the dust by 2019 or 2020 once the centers and defensemen have mastered their craft and are truly ready to shine.

It’s incredibly tough to acquire a top end centerman or defenseman unless you grab one near the top of the draft. You might luck out on a defenseman later in the draft, but when a top notch d-man prospect is available at the top of the draft, you grab it. That’s why Sergachev or McAvoy would’ve been a fine choice at #2.

Just look at Winnipeg. Had they drafted Sergachev or McAvoy, they could have kept their first line of Connor, Scheifele and Wheeler in tact, their best point producers in tact, and with Hellebuyck in net, a Sergachev or McAvoy addition to their defense would’ve put them over the top. I think it will become more evident by the day that, once you think with your head and not your heart, Winnipeg might very well have been better off drafting Sergachev or McAvoy.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Sorry but Forsberg is on The 2nd line just because Johansen is hurt. The 1st line is rolling because of Turris and they all hot The bump because of their chemistry.
These lineups are also very frequently wrong.

Context doesn't matter apparently. He's on the 2nd line so therefore he is a 2nd line player according to some people haha.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Context doesn't matter apparently. He's on the 2nd line so therefore he is a 2nd line player according to some people haha.

Malkin plays on the second line. The thing with Laine is that it lets him face weaker competition rather than making him a 2nd line caliber player

 

[GoJetsGo55]

the only people who can't seem to handle it are some of his supporters. He has a string of a couple good games and suddenly he's the best player from his draft and everyone knew it all along

On the flip side of that, he plays 30 games on the 2nd line and all of a sudden he's "just a 2nd line player"

That pendulum swings both ways friend.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

Malkin plays on the second line. The thing with Laine is that it lets him face weaker competition rather than making him a 2nd line caliber player

So does that take away from Matthews rookie season because Laine was on the top line while Matthews was a 3rd line guy?

 

[surixon]

While I disagree with your Laine projection, it’s fair to assume that Laine will nonetheless improve upon what he is now. It’s my opinion that Keller, Sergachev and McAvoy will improve just as much, possibly more, and yet they will play the more important positions going forward.

Historically, teams have won with elite strength up the middle and on the blue line. That’s exactly what Keller, Sergachev and McAvoy are shaping up to be. Laine was better in 2016, compares well in 2017, but it’s possible he may be left in the dust by 2019 or 2020 once the centers and defensemen have mastered their craft and are truly ready to shine.

It’s incredibly tough to acquire a top end centerman or defenseman unless you grab one near the top of the draft. You might luck out on a defenseman later in the draft, but when a top notch d-man prospect is available at the top of the draft, you grab it. That’s why Sergachev or McAvoy would’ve been a fine choice at #2.

Just look at Winnipeg. Had they drafted Sergachev or McAvoy, they could have kept their first line of Connor, Scheifele and Wheeler in tact, their best point producers in tact, and with Hellebuyck in net, a Sergachev or McAvoy addition to their defense would’ve put them over the top. I think it will become more evident by the day that, once you think with your head and not your heart, Winnipeg might very well have been better off drafting Sergachev or McAvoy.

The Jets have a franchise C and two top pairing dmen under the age of 23 so no we didn't need with a Mcovoy or Serge or the maybe C in Keller.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So does that take away from Matthews rookie season because Laine was on the top line while Matthews was a 3rd line guy?

I mean, that's not really true. If you have to make something up to prove your point, you're doing something wrong

 

[BayStreetBully]

The Jets have a franchise C and two top pairing dmen under the age of 23 so no we didn't need with a Mcovoy or Serge or the maybe C in Keller.

I think time will make this more evident. Centers and defensemen win championships. Sergachev and McAvoy are exactly the type of players you want in a playoff series grind. Laine is a great power play shooter, but it’s difficult to 1) rely on the power play to score in the playoffs once players play smarter and refs put away their whistles, and 2) get your shot off once you even get the power play, because in a 7 game series, opponents study you and know your tendencies, and will take away your time and space to shoot. It’s for the same reason Ovechkin has been neutralized so well in the playoffs, and Laine is nowhere near Ovechkin’s level.

I believe Sergachev or McAvoy, even if it means minus Laine, would’ve made the Jets one of the favorites this year. I can’t say that with their current defense core.

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

Kadri is a 1C then. Tell me how many 2nd line wingers score 40g/season? HF never change. 15yr old net-warriors.

I totally agree, I'm just trying to corner TWS to say something nice about a leaf player for once. But doing so may cause his head to explode

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I mean, that's not really true. If you have to make something up to prove your point, you're doing something wrong

Man the narrative keeps changing. I can't keep up with it anymore.

I forgot that Hyman and Brown were on the Leafs top line to start the year last year.

All I heard last year was how Matthews is held back because he's on the 3rd line playing with 3rd liners.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Man the narrative keeps changing. I can't keep up with it anymore.

well you stated an outright lie so if you want to keep up, that would be a good place to start

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I totally agree, I'm just trying to corner TWS to say something nice about a leaf player for once. But doing so may cause his head to explode

Where were you in the GDT the other night? I was complimenting Freddy Andersen so much, you would think I was talking about Terry Sawchuk. You are free to look it up if you need my validation.

 

[surixon]

I think time will make this more evident. Centers and defensemen win championships. Sergachev and McAvoy are exactly the type of players you want in a playoff series grind. Laine is a great power play shooter, but it’s difficult to 1) rely on the power play to score in the playoffs once players play smarter and refs put away their whistles, and 2) get your shot off once you even get the power play, because in a 7 game series, opponents study you and know your tendencies, and will take away your time and space to shoot. It’s for the same reason Ovechkin has been neutralized so well in the playoffs, and Laine is nowhere near Ovechkin’s level.

I believe Sergachev or McAvoy, even if it means minus Laine, would’ve made the Jets one of the favorites this year. I can’t say that with their current defense core.

Who does Keller beat out at C. Not Scheifele or Little. LOWRY is elite defensively and is big. We also have this kid named Roslovic who is 3rd in AHL scoring and can play C. We have great C depth and have no need of anymore atm.

We have Trouba and Morrissey on d and both are the types of dmen you need to win with. Couple that with Buff and then add Kulikov and Myers on the bottom pair and our defense is pretty darn good. We also have a number of nice d prospects to round thing out.

What we need is an elite goalscoring threat. Pay more attention to other teams before saying whatvyou think they need.

 

[aufheben]

Malkin plays on the second line. The thing with Laine is that it lets him face weaker competition rather than making him a 2nd line caliber player

That also means he plays with weaker teammates, which is more important than competition.

 

[julkki]

Let’s look at it this way. Is Laine even the correct #2 pick from the 2016 draft? He got off to a quick start last year because winger is easier to play than center or defense, but I’d say others in his draft class have caught up and surpassed him. Let’s look further.

#1 is obviously Matthews. No one with a hockey mind has ever disputed that.

#2 is where it gets dicey. I would probably go with Keller. He is having an impressive rookie season as a center. What he’s doing for a not-so-good team in Arizona is very impressive. He’s a future superstar center.

#3 I’d say Sergachev. A big reason for Tampa’s resurgence. He plays the coveted defense position, which takes longer to make an impact than a winger. It’s hard to acquire these types of defensemen. He would have been a worthy top 2-3 pick in 2016 as well.

I struggled with #4. I could have gone with McAvoy or Laine. But position wins out when it’s close. McAvoy is a stud d-man who will only get better in time, who will be a minute cruncher on the back end.

Laine is at #5 in my opinion. Yes, Puljujarvi is more well-rounded and may in fact turn out to be the better Finnish winger from this draft, but he’ll have to prove it first. Still, the possibility is there. Ditto with Dubois. He has the potential, but he hasn’t yet edged out Laine.

Laine is a good player, but I have seen enough holes in his game this season to have cause for concern. He’s still the best winger of his draft class for now, but I think Keller, Sergachev and McAvoy have a strong case for being the better pick. We knew all along that these centers and defensemen would take time to develop. Last year, Laine could jump in right away, but it’s not clear cut anymore from picks #2-6.

Ladies and gentlemen, HF offers a lot BS around and here's the top post in that category for this day. It amazes me how much effort some Leaf posters do to lay down Laine.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

That also means he plays with weaker teammates, which is more important than competition.

Little and Ehlers aren't weaker than Hyman and Brown

 

[BayStreetBully]

Who does Keller beat out at C. Not Scheifele or Little. LOWRY is elite defensively and is big. We also have this kid named Roslovic who is 3rd in AHL scoring and can play C. We have great C depth and have no need of anymore atm.

We have Trouba and Morrissey on d and both are the types of dmen you need to win with. Couple that with Buff and then add Kulikov and Myers on the bottom pair and our defense is pretty darn good. We also have a number of nice d prospects to round thing out.

What we need is an elite goalscoring threat. Pay more attention to other teams before saying whatvyou think they need.

I understand you are heavily invested in Laine, having drafted him and having learned to love him as a fan. That’s natural.

It’s my opinion that Sergachev or McAvoy would’ve made them contenders this year by solidifying their defense, and Keller would’ve made them better in the long run. I think you are seriously underestimating Keller here. He looks poised to become the second best forward and maybe second best player of his draft class. You are free to disagree. But I think my view will become more of the norm as the months and years go by. In 3 years, it’s quite probable we are looking at the 2016 draft class like this:

1) Matthews
2) Keller
3) Sergachev
4) McAvoy
5) Laine
6) Puljujarvi