Is it a stretch to consider Mark Giordano a top 10 Dman if he manages to hit 50+ points this season?

[Bank Shot]

We were top 10 in GA last season until Smith got injured, so yeah not sure where you're getting that part from.

Giordano's defensive ability isn't overstated at all, he's not top 3 in the league good, but he is most certainly top 5-top 10. Every single pairing Giordano has been on has been one of the best in hockey since 2013 (He was with Brodie until 2016, where your own Mark Spector compared them to Keith and Seabrook How Giordano, Brodie provide championship calibre defence - Sportsnet.ca). And when he was with Hamilton they were the best pairing in hockey, according to statistics and the eye test (https://www.tsn.ca/hamilton-and-giordano-are-the-best-pairing-in-hockey-1.704373). And last season they were phenomenal as well, dragged down by one of the worst systems and man-management coaches I've ever seen in Glen Gulutzan. (Giordano and Hamilton head and shoulders above the rest). Brodie's torpedo in quality of play directly correlated with his removal from the Brodano pairing, and I expect him to play back to his pre-Gultuzan era talents this season.

Smith was carrying that team most nights. Why weren't the Flames top five in goals against?

Teams like LA and St.Louis do it all the time.

With all the supposed defensive star power on the Flames, they haven't finished higher than 14th in GAA in the last four seasons.

It's a hollow claim now.

People that buy Giordano as a top five defensive defenseman in the league are drinking the cool aid.

 

[maacoshark]

Smith was carrying that team most nights. Why weren't the Flames top five in goals against?

Teams like LA and St.Louis do it all the time.

With all the supposed defensive star power on the Flames, they haven't finished higher than 14th in GAA in the last four seasons.

It's a hollow claim now.

People that buy Giordano as a top five defensive defenseman in the league are drinking the cool aid.

I've never really considered him a top 10 dman. He is a decent 2way dman.

 

[Regal]

Smith was carrying that team most nights. Why weren't the Flames top five in goals against?

Teams like LA and St.Louis do it all the time.

With all the supposed defensive star power on the Flames, they haven't finished higher than 14th in GAA in the last four seasons.

It's a hollow claim now.

People that buy Giordano as a top five defensive defenseman in the league are drinking the cool aid.

Giordano is only one out of 18 skaters. The last 2 years, he has a 1.99 GA/60 at 5v5, which is 8th among all defensemen who have played at least 2000 minutes over that time frame, which is over a half goal per 60 better than his teammates when he's not on the ice, which is the 2nd biggest improvement by a player compared to their teammates in the league. The Flames defense as a unit was overrated when they first acquired Hamilton (though people seem to only focus on defense, when part of that assessment was their offense), but Giordano never has been. Their top pairing has always played well thanks to Gio, and he isn't in any way responsible for their middle of the pack GA.

 

[Volica]

Smith was carrying that team most nights. Why weren't the Flames top five in goals against?

Teams like LA and St.Louis do it all the time.

With all the supposed defensive star power on the Flames, they haven't finished higher than 14th in GAA in the last four seasons.

It's a hollow claim now.

People that buy Giordano as a top five defensive defenseman in the league are drinking the cool aid.

3rd Best shot differential in the league.
5th Best chances against.
8th Best high danger chances against.
7th Best PK
10th worst Save %
10th worst HDSV%
12th worst GF%

When you actually stop rolling your face over the keyboard with the whole "LOL 4 1D's!! LOLz" thing, you can actually statistically see that the Flames D has been stellar, top 5-10 in the league in every defensive category. They've been bottom 10 in goaltending statistics. It makes a huge difference when any shot from any random spot has a chance to beat you, even when you're dominating the game in terms of putting up shots and limiting dangerous opportunities on your end.

More work has to be done than just looking at GAA, because that's a goalie/defensive stat.

 

[Bank Shot]

3rd Best shot differential in the league.
5th Best chances against.
8th Best high danger chances against.
7th Best PK
10th worst Save %
10th worst HDSV%
12th worst GF%

When you actually stop rolling your face over the keyboard with the whole "LOL 4 1D's!! LOLz" thing, you can actually statistically see that the Flames D has been stellar, top 5-10 in the league in every defensive category. They've been bottom 10 in goaltending statistics. It makes a huge difference when any shot from any random spot has a chance to beat you, even when you're dominating the game in terms of putting up shots and limiting dangerous opportunities on your end.

Yeah yeah yeah. The Flames were getting stellar goaltending last season for the first half and they weren't leaders in goals against.

They blamed the goaltending before that. It's funny how it was all Brian Elliot's fault when St.Louis was a leader in GAA with him in their net.

The Flames have been porous defensively for years now. Giordano is good. He was really good offensively for 2-3 years. He was never as good defensively as he was offensively. Still isn't.

High danger chances are the dumbest advanced stat to come about yet. They are completely inaccurate. The whole point of corsi was to make a larger sample size. High danger chances breaks it down into tiny fragments that are prone to massive error by the guys recording the game. You really think they are getting the x,y axis recorded perfectly while watching the game in real time? They don't even record actual shots on net correctly.

The results speak for themselves. And the results have been thoroughly mediocre four years running. The team with a superstar defenceman that never makes the playoffs. Alright.

 

[Volica]

Yeah yeah yeah. The Flames were getting stellar goaltending last season for the first half and they weren't leaders in goals against.

They blamed the goaltending before that. It's funny how it was all Brian Elliot's fault when St.Louis was a leader in GAA with him in their net.

The Flames have been porous defensively for years now. Giordano is good. He was really good offensively for 2-3 years. He was never as good defensively as he was offensively. Still isn't.

High danger chances are the dumbest advanced stat to come about yet. They are completely inaccurate. The whole point of corsi was to make a larger sample size. High danger chances breaks it down into tiny fragments that are prone to massive error by the guys recording the game. You really think they are getting the x,y axis recorded perfectly while watching the game in real time? They don't even record actual shots on net correctly.

The results speak for themselves. And the results have been thoroughly mediocre four years running. The team with a superstar defenceman that never makes the playoffs. Alright.

Okay, We'll just go by your word and not stats.

 

[Bank Shot]

Okay, We'll just go by your word and not stats.

Or you can just go by goals against which the Flames are never better than average at league wide.

 

[Haatley]

Or you can just go by goals against which the Flames are never better than average at league wide.

That could have something to do with... um... goaltending.

 

[Critical13]

He's pretty close, if he nets 55-60 he would be in the Norris discussion.

One of the few players Flames fans shove down our throats that actually deliver.

 

[Volica]

He's pretty close, if he nets 55-60 he would be in the Norris discussion.

One of the few players Flames fans shove down our throats that actually deliver.

I’m now just curious what players Flames shove down peoples throats. For some reason I can’t remember a single thread that was hijacked to pump a Flames players tires.

 

[Bank Shot]

That could have something to do with... um... goaltending.

That's the excuse for sure.

St.Louis finished top 5 in GA with the same goaltender Calgary acquired from them.

Last year Mike Smith went to the All-Star game. Surely he was the problem.

 

[Volica]

That's the excuse for sure.

St.Louis finished top 5 in GA with the same goaltender Calgary acquired from them.

Last year Mike Smith went to the All-Star game. Surely he was the problem.

No. He wasn't the problem.
While he was healthy Calgary was 29-19-8, or on pace for 97 points with a team that couldn't score. They went 8-16-2 to close out the season post injury.
This past year Calgary surrendered 4 or more goals 24 times. 13 of those came after Mike Smith was injured, with only 26 games left in the season.

Not sure how many times the picture can be painted in different ways. You're wrong, just admit it an move on. No big deal. You came in spouting nonsense, you got proven incorrect. Just move on.

 

[Bank Shot]

No. He wasn't the problem.
While he was healthy Calgary was 29-19-8, or on pace for 97 points with a team that couldn't score. They went 8-16-2 to close out the season post injury.
This past year Calgary surrendered 4 or more goals 24 times. 13 of those came after Mike Smith was injured, with only 26 games left in the season..

Exactly. As soon as the Flames stopped getting all star goaltending their paper mache defence collapsed and folded just like it's always done the last few seasons.

great goaltending hid the problems last year for part of the year. Better hope Smith can battle off father time for another 50 games.

 

[JackFr]

Yeah I'd consider him a top 10 defenceman already.

Karlsson
Hedman
Doughty
Subban
Josi
Burns
Lindholm
Jones
Ekman-Larsson
Giordano

 

[zar]

Giordano will never be a top 10 dman in the league anymore. He is still a very good and effective dman... and at one time was a top 10 or very close to it. Those days are behind him.

Again, don't get me wrong... he's a very good dman and I would take him on my team in a heartbeat.

I bumped this thread to point out that I was wrong. To me has has to be one of the favorites to win the Norris thus far.

THIS thread is kind of a good read too.

 

[CraigsList]

Lol @ the people not thinking he's not a top 10 defenseman.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Yah absolutely hes a top 10 dman this year. Hes been fantastic

 

[ImNeverWrong]

Lol @ the people not thinking he's not a top 10 defenseman.

I call them stupid idiots.

 

[Duffalufagus]

He's pretty close, if he nets 55-60 he would be in the Norris discussion.

One of the few players Flames fans shove down our throats that actually deliver.

Who else do they “shove down your throat” that don’t deliver?

 

[Duffalufagus]

Leader in the clubhouse for the Norris right now.

 

[Critical13]

Who else do they “shove down your throat” that don’t deliver?

Tj Brodie has been the biggest over the last little while

 

[Duffalufagus]

Yeah I'd consider him a top 10 defenceman already.

Karlsson
Hedman
Doughty
Subban
Josi
Burns
Lindholm
Jones
Ekman-Larsson
Giordano

So, he’s way better than Karlsson by every objective metric. And almost everyone else on your list. But hey, everyone’s got opinions, man.

 

[Beukeboom]

I bumped this thread to point out that I was wrong. To me has has to be one of the favorites to win the Norris thus far.

THIS thread is kind of a good read too.

Admitting you were wrong is more than 95% in here would do, and a bump on top of that. Not bad at all. Usually people would look for strange advance stats they don't even understand themselves in order to prove they weren't wrong.

Strong candidate for the Norris indeed.