Is Dubas a bad GM?

[koyvoo]

Shanny's already admitted fault with the Babcock hiring that fell flat.

That was on him, 100%.

I didn't have a problem with him dropping Lou and giving Dubas a shot. Injection of youth never heard anyone, kid's gotta start somewhere, right?

Also, not sure how "proven" Hunter's hockey mind is, outside of London. How much NHL managerial experience did Hunter have, prior to Shanny picking Dubas?

Some younger fans may not remember, but this organization already did this in the late 80’s with Gord Stellick. He was made GM at 30 years old. He was considered a young, and revolutionary hockey thinker. He crapped the bed. Ask Stellick today and he’ll tell you that the biggest issue he had in not delivering on his perceived experience was that he got the job 15-20 years too early and lacked the experience.

 

[Drytoast]

Some younger fans may not remember, but this organization already did this in the late 80’s with Gord Stellick. He was made GM at 30 years old. He was considered a young, and revolutionary hockey thinker. He crapped the bed. Ask Stellick today and he’ll tell you that the biggest issue he had in not delivering on his perceived experience was that he got the job 15-20 years too early and lacked the experience.

Oh God I remember the promo video they shot of gord trying to look smart

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The 10th best shootout % of all time, is a hair over 43%? That seems....inaccurate.

EDIT: when accounting for 10 or more goals? He's 27th

NHL.com Stats



I remember the days of the "Muskoka 5" and the country club atmosphere alleged to exist in the locker rooms of past underachieving Leaf teams. Almost seems like deja vu to see this team not live up to the hype yet again.

Zero playoff round wins since 2004 is beyond pathetic for such a big market club - or for any club, really. I wonder how warm that GM chair is under Dubas? If he ****s the bed yet again this season you gotta think Shanny's close to pulling the plug on this little project.

Did you click the link I included where Bozak is 10th alltime in shootouts with a minimum sample size of 50 attempts. It’s accurate.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Did you click the link I included where Bozak is 10th alltime in shootouts with a minimum sample size of 50 attempts. It’s accurate.

I'm looking at the link he posted on NHL.com and it shows Bozak ranked 27th all time and not 10th all time, because it says since shootout attempts since 2005-2006.

The 10th best shootout % of all time, is a hair over 43%? That seems....inaccurate.

EDIT: when accounting for 10 or more goals? He's 27th

NHL.com Stats

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I'm looking at the link he posted on NHL.com and it shows Bozak ranked 27th all time and not 10th all time, because it says since shootout attempts since 2005-2006.

Bozak is there alright. 10th all time with a large enough sample size of 50 attempts at 43.1% in his career.

NHL.com Stats

 

[Freudian]

He's the GM that got hit the hardest by the trend of good young players not only wanting to skip bridge deals, they also want to earn all the money while being a UFA at 27-28.

Too much power has been transferred to the young stars and it makes a GMs job difficult.

Dubas big failure is him not being able to build a defensive group that seems suited to winning in the playoffs.

Leafs need to make it past the first round or Shanahan might pull the plug.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Hot Take: Dubas is a GM

 

[LeafsNation75]

Bozak is there alright. 10th all time with a large enough sample size of 50 attempts at 43.1% in his career.

NHL.com Stats

So how does one link to the same website have him 10th and another one have him ranked 27th?

 

[danpantz]

So how does one link to the same website have him 10th and another one have him ranked 27th?

Because one list is sorted by players with over 50 shootout attempts and the other is listed by players with 10 or more shootout goals.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So how does one link to the same website have him 10th and another one have him ranked 27th?

Sample size. I used the larger sample size where the other was a smaller sampling of just 10 goals. Larger sample sizes filter out anomalies. Usually when one wants to sort out who are the most proficient in a category such as shoot outs. To be most accurate most posters will go with a larger sample. Btw Bozak has 21 career shootout goals. Well over the 10 goals the other sampling represented.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Sample size. I used the larger sample size where the other was a smaller sampling of just 10 goals. Larger sample sizes filter out anomalies. Usually when one wants to sort out who are the most proficient in a category such as shoot outs. To be most accurate most posters will go with a larger sample. Btw Bozak has 21 career shootout goals. Well over the 10 goals the other sampling represented.

I find it impossible to believe you actually had to explain what sample sizes are to that poster

 

[FerrisRox]

Agreed completely, except one little thing. Shanahan can not let Dubas go. Shanahan bet his entire career on the guy by letting a hall of fame GM leave, while also watching a proven hockey mind like Hunter bolt as well. If shanahan bounces dubass, that’s him admitting his vision was wrong all along, and he may as well pack his things also. The two will go down together sooner or later

I think you are right.

He let a Hall of Fame General Manger leave to install Dubas in his place and then he let Dubas fire a likely Hall of Fame coach to install another neophyte in his place. (To be clear, I am not saying these people should have kept their jobs, just speaking to the optics and the reality of what he did.) If this goes down in flames to the point that Dubas is fired, I suspect it will be Shanahan packing up his office with him.

Shanahan was extended and incredible amount of good will from Leaf fans, almost from the get go, but there is precious little evidence that he's any good at his job.

The biggest success of the Shanahan era so far is the team finishing dead last and getting Auston Matthews.

When your greatest triumph is finishing in last place in 30-team league that's not really a sparkling resume.

 

[cgarn]

Dubas must go

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think you are right.

He let a Hall of Fame General Manger leave to install Dubas in his place and then he let Dubas fire a likely Hall of Fame coach to install another neophyte in his place. (To be clear, I am not saying these people should have kept their jobs, just speaking to the optics and the reality of what he did.) If this goes down in flames to the point that Dubas is fired, I suspect it will be Shanahan packing up his office with him.

Shanahan was extended and incredible amount of good will from Leaf fans, almost from the get go, but there is precious little evidence that he's any good at his job.

The biggest success of the Shanahan era so far is the team finishing dead last and getting Auston Matthews.

When your greatest triumph is finishing in last place in 30-team league that's not really an sparkling resume.

Let's say hypothetically he kept Lamoriello and let Dubas find a job with another team because at one point Colorado wanted to interview him and Shanahan had deny them permission to do that, you don't think some people would say why is he sticking with Lamoriello since Dubas is a lot younger.

Maple Leafs GM Dubas talks time Shanahan blocked possible move to Avs - Sportsnet.ca

Also in the 2 years they made the playoffs with Lamoriello as their GM they didn't advance past the 1st round, so it's not like they had playoff success with him.

Finally Shanahan had to get permission from the MLSE board of directors to do a full rebuild and it's something Leafs fans were saying for years that needed to happen. The fact they got Auston Matthews as a result is fine. Plus in the year they finished last place, they had 1 more point (69) than the previous season (68) when they finished 4th last.

 

[FerrisRox]

Some younger fans may not remember, but this organization already did this in the late 80’s with Gord Stellick. He was made GM at 30 years old. He was considered a young, and revolutionary hockey thinker. He crapped the bed. Ask Stellick today and he’ll tell you that the biggest issue he had in not delivering on his perceived experience was that he got the job 15-20 years too early and lacked the experience.

Gord Stellick was absolutely not, at any time, considered a revolutionary hockey thinker. Gord - who is a friend - would tell you that himself.

He was being groomed in the Maple Leaf front office, where he started as a high school kid prepping game day notes and stats for the pressbox and continued to work in the organization throughout his university days. The year before he was hired as the Maple Leafs General Manager, he was given the reins of the Maple Leafs American Hockey League affiliate in Newmarket.

His road to that role had nothing to with being a "revolutionary hockey thinker." In fact, Stellick was working in PR when he got shuffled over to a role as an assistant to the General Manager, which moved him into a hockey ops role (albeit as an assistant to an executive in that role) for the first time.

After Gerry McNamara was fired, Stellick prepped a lengthy dossier for Maple Leafs owner Harold Ballard that outlined the direction the team should go in and areas of improvement. It was intended to be a document that would aid the increasingly absent minded 86-year old owner in the process of hiring a new General Manager. Instead, in late April, Stellick opened up the sports section to discover that he was the new General Manager of the Maple Leafs.

 

[FerrisRox]

Let's say hypothetically he kept Lamoriello and let Dubas find a job with another team because at one point Colorado wanted to interview him and Shanahan had deny them permission to do that, you don't think some people would say why is he sticking with Lamoriello since Dubas is a lot younger.

Maple Leafs GM Dubas talks time Shanahan blocked possible move to Avs - Sportsnet.ca

Also in the 2 years they made the playoffs with Lamoriello as their GM they didn't advance past the 1st round, so it's not like they had playoff success with him.

Finally Shanahan had to get permission from the MLSE board of directors to do a full rebuild and it's something Leafs fans were saying for years that needed to happen. The fact they got Auston Matthews as a result is fine. Plus in the year they finished last place, they had 1 more point (69) than the previous season (68) when they finished 4th last.

I don't have any idea why this is a reply to what I wrote.

What point do you think you are making here? What are you saying? Are you saying Shanahan's fate isn't tied to Dubas?

Are you saying Shanahan has done a good job? A bad job? I have no clue what point you are trying to make here.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I don't have any idea why this is a reply to what I wrote.

What point do you think you are making here? What are you saying? Are you saying Shanahan's fate isn't tied to Dubas?

Are you saying Shanahan has done a good job? A bad job? I have not clue what point you are trying to make here.

I'm saying Shanahan had his reasons for promoting Dubas and used the example how Colorado wanted to interview him and to deny them permission to do that. So it was clear he didn't want to let Dubas leave. Plus among Shanahan's hiring's Dubas was his first major one before Mark Hunter and Lou Lamoriello.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Let's say hypothetically he kept Lamoriello and let Dubas find a job with another team because at one point Colorado wanted to interview him .

In this hypothetical, Avalanche fans would be very upset having dubas as their GM instead of Sakic.

 

[FerrisRox]

I'm saying Shanahan had his reasons for promoting Dubas and used the example how Colorado wanted to interview him and to deny them permission to do that. So it was clear he didn't want to let Dubas leave. Plus among Shanahan's hiring's Dubas was his first major one before Mark Hunter and Lou Lamoriello.

Okay ... So?

Again, you are responding to a post by then talking about something totally different.

You repeatedly do this and I don't have a clue why.

Do you think that anybody has said that he didn't have a reason to hire Dubas? Why does whether he had a reason to hire him or not have to do with what I'm talking about? Do you actually think ever, in the history of the NHL a General Manager was hired by someone that had no reason to hire him?

Do you think it is at all unusual for another team to express interest in a staff member for a job vacancy? Why would you bring this up? Again, what does it have to do with what I was talking about in the post you responded to?

What does any of this have to do with what I was talking about?

 

[LeafsNation75]

In this hypothetical, Avalanche fans would be very upset having dubas as their GM instead of Sakic.

That was after the 2017 season when Colorado was historically bad and Joe Sakic was being questioned as their GM. So it's easy to say all that now with hindsight.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

That was after the 2017 season when Colorado was historically bad and Joe Sakic was being questioned as their GM. So it's easy to say all that now with hindsight.

You literally just proposed a hypothetical. Don’t need hindsight in made up situations

But overall, I agree 100% that dubas as a GM is not even in Sakic’s league. So you are correct on that. Kudos on being objective here

 

[DatSnipeMatthews]

Dubas assembled a team that can't beat a team that has a 42 year-old Zamboni driver in net...

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I can see a lot of people that voted no changing their votes after losing to Ayers the Zamboni driver tonight. As great a story that was, this has got to be the lowest night in Dubas' GM career.

 

[Pia8988]

No heart. Leaf fans would have revolted if the young 'stars' got moved, but they have no heart. Lose lose for Dubas.

 

[c9777666]

No heart. Leaf fans would have revolted if the young 'stars' got moved, but they have no heart. Lose lose for Dubas.

There is more to hockey than heart.

Skill, talent, speed, puckluck, hot goalies..... that still matters.