Is Dubas a bad GM?

[The Winter Soldier]

I never denied that he wasn't. I'm just stating a fact that in 2017 in the shootout he was 0-3, so him going 5-6 in 2018 wouldn't have meant anything if Dubas re-signed him. You were the one who brought it up and in your way you think he was wrong to not re-sign him, even though he was replaced with John Tavares.

It is not a fact when you claimed the 10th best shootout player in history is a fluke is it? Bozak was 3 for 5 last year for St Louis in shootouts also. St Louis won 3 shootouts last year. They also won the cup. Again you are the one that brought up the reason why the Leafs regressed was they couldn't win a shootout last year. Now that you know the facts, if you feel the shootout is so important, maybe Dubas is at fault for letting Bozak go, you can add that to his inability to address back up goaltending to the reasons why he is not a good GM.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It is not a fact when you claimed the 10th best shootout player in history is a fluke is it? Bozak was 3 for 5 last year for St Louis in shootouts also. St Louis won 3 shootouts last year. They also won the cup. Again you are the one that brought up the reason why the Leafs regressed was they couldn't win a shootout last year. Now that you know the facts, if you feel the shootout is so important, maybe Dubas is at fault for letting Bozak go, you can add that to his inability to address back up goaltending to the reasons why he is not a good GM.

You still never acknowledged that in 2016 Bozak was 1-6 an in 2017 he was 0-3. Those are facts and I know he was 5-6 in 2018, however that didn't mean he would have scored in the two shootouts Toronto played in 2019 if they had re-signed him. So Dubas being blamed for not re-signing him because of his career shootout success is a new one from you.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You still never acknowledged that in 2016 Bozak was 1-6 an in 2017 he was 0-3. Those are facts and I know he was 5-6 in 2018, however that didn't mean he would have scored in the two shootouts Toronto played in 2019 if they had re-signed him. So Dubas being blamed for not re-signing him because of his career shootout success is a new one from you.

You said it in your own post. Irony at its best. At first you claimed the Leafs regression was due to not being able to win the shootout, and you knew they were only 0-2 in shootouts. 2 extra points maximum. It's such a weak argument, it doesn't really require a response. But here you are talking about a failure to win 2 shootouts, so if you put so much importance in this, why are you not blaming Dubas for trading the 10 best shootout player in history in Bozak. You also cite 2017, why not cite Bozak last year to be more accurate since he was 3-5. That would be worth atleast 2 shootout wins for Toronto right? Let's face it your arguments are unravelling all around you.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You said it in your own post. Irony at its best. At first you claimed the Leafs regression was due to not being able to win the shootout, and you knew they were only 0-2 in shootouts. 2 extra points maximum. It's such a weak argument, it doesn't really require a response. But here you are talking about a failure to win 2 shootouts, so if you put so much importance in this, why are you not blaming Dubas for trading the 10 best shootout player in history in Bozak. You also cite 2017, why not cite Bozak last year to be more accurate since he was 3-5. That would be worth atleast 2 shootout wins for Toronto right? Let's face it your arguments are unravelling all around you.

There is no guarantee Bozak would have scored in the shootouts Toronto played in last season and as I mentioned before they didn't play in their first one until their 77th game and their 82nd game. So if Dubas re-signed him for that reason only it would be crazy.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

There is no guarantee Bozak would have scored in the shootouts Toronto played in last season and as I mentioned before they didn't play in their first one until their 77th game and their 82nd game. So if Dubas re-signed him for that reason only it would be crazy.

The Leafs would have been better position with Bozak to grab those 2 extra points wouldn't they? Since the shootout seems to be so important to your argument that the Leafs regressed last year. Well if they got those 2 points, it would still be a regression. You might want to look elsewhere for the Leafs regression last year, and this year than just citing the shootout. IE. Back up goaltending, defence, Bad Cap Mgt, soft similar style players acquired by Dubas.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The Leafs would have been better position with Bozak to grab those 2 extra points that seem to be so important to you as your sole argument that the Leafs regressed last year. Well if they got those 2 points, it would still be a regression. You might want to look elsewhere for the Leafs regression last year, and this year. IE. Back up goaltending, defence, Bad Cap Mgt, soft similar style players acquired by Dubas.

Just because Bozak was 5-6 in the shootout in 2018 did not automatically mean he would have done that for Toronto in 2019 if they re-signed him. Like I have said a number of times Toronto only played 2 shootouts all of last season and if they brought him back for that reason it would have been stupid since you said Dubas needed to re-sign him because of that.

I also mentioned how Dubas screwed up keeping Sparks instead of McElhinney, however despite that Toronto still finsihed 3rd in the Atlantic and 7th overall in the NHL like they did in 2018, they just had 100 points instead of 105 points.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Just because Bozak was 5-6 in the shootout in 2018 did not automatically mean he would have done that for Toronto in 2019 if they re-signed him. Like I have said a number of times Toronto only played 2 shootouts all of last season and if they brought him back for that reason it would have been stupid since you said Dubas needed to re-sign him because of that.

I also mentioned how Dubas screwed up keeping Sparks instead of McElhinney, however despite that Toronto still finsihed 3rd in the Atlantic and 7th overall in the NHL like they did in 2018, they just had 100 points instead of 105 points.

You keep ignoring Bozak was 3 for 5 last year for St Louis in the shootout, and that St Louis won 3 shootout games. If you are going to cite the reason for the Leafs regression is they lost 2 points in 2 shootouts the year Bozak was 3 for 5 in shootouts. You are not going to win. As you did earlier by calling Bozak a fluke which was debunked when you found out Bozak is the 10th best shootout player in NHL history. As you can see It's a silly argument of yours to begin with and it has unravelled.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You keep ignoring Bozak was 3 for 5 last year for St Louis in the shootout, and that St Louis won 3 shootout games. If you are going to cite the reason for the Leafs regression is they lost 2 points in 2 shootouts the year Bozak was 3 for 5 in shootouts. You are not going to win. As you did earlier by calling Bozak a fluke which was debunked when you found out Bozak is the 10th best shootout player in NHL history. As you can see It's a silly argument of yours to begin with and it has unravelled.

Yes that's what Bozak did with the Blues and it would have no effect in a hypothetical situation if he was still in Toronto. Hell Bozak had more shootout attempts last season than actual shootouts Toronto was in.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yes that's what Bozak did with the Blues and it would have no effect in a hypothetical situation if he was still in Toronto. Hell Bozak had more shootout attempts last season than actual shootouts Toronto was in.

The Leafs had 105 points with Bozak in his final year in 2017. And they were 7-2 in shootouts with Bozak leading the way with 5 goals in 6 attempts. These are Facts. Not Hypotheticals.

Most of us know what the facts are, and it leads to a strong hypothetical to counter your point the Leafs regressed because they were 0-2 in shootouts in 2018.

 

[LeafsNation75]

The Leafs had 105 points with Bozak in his final year in 2017. And they were 7-2 in shootouts with Bozak leading the way with 5 goals in 6 attempts. These are Facts. Not Hypotheticals.

Most of us know what the facts are, and it leads to a strong hypothetical to counter your point the Leafs regressed because they were 0-2 in shootouts in 2018.

I never disputed those facts and I'm the one who brought them up.

I'm just saying there is no guarantee Bozak would have scored in either of Toronto's two shootouts in 2019 if he was re-signed, so saying his numbers last season with the Blues doesn't mean anything.

 

[danpantz]

I never disputed those facts and I'm the one who brought them up.

I'm just saying there is no guarantee Bozak would have scored in either of Toronto's two shootouts in 2019 if he was re-signed, so saying his numbers last season with the Blues doesn't mean anything.

This all started because you called Bozak's Shoot out goals a fluke and then picked two seasons worth of data.

Then you got called out on the fact that he is top 10 in shootouts (50 attempts or more)

Now you're all over the place

 

[LeafsNation75]

This all started because you called Bozak's Shoot out goals a fluke and then picked two seasons worth of data.

Then you got called out on the fact that he is top 10 in shootouts (50 attempts or more)

Now you're all over the place

I only said it was a fluke because in 2017 he was 0-3 and in 2018 he went 5-6.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I never disputed those facts and I'm the one who brought them up.

I'm just saying there is no guarantee Bozak would have scored in either of Toronto's two shootouts in 2019 if he was re-signed, so saying his numbers last season with the Blues doesn't mean anything.

You never disputed the facts, yet you are claiming Bozak would not have been a help to the Leafs 2 lost pts in the shootout last year as your basis argument that they regressed due to the shootout?

I'd rather just talk about why Dubas is a bad GM and point to his failure to address back up goaltending for starters instead of debunking excuses like the shoot out record you keep bringing up.

 

[Bomber0104]

That's great for him and I knew that because unlike you I'm a Leafs fan that watched him play when he was in Toronto. However it's not like I said anything in correct when he didn't score in the shootout at all in 2017, despite having success in 2018.

As a favor, for the rest of us Leafs fans.

Just stop.

You're not very good at this.

 

[Jumptheshark]

comes down to perspective

like in Edmonton

The clock is ticking to win

but unlike the Oilers due to Matthews having a 5 year contract and not an 8--they are under more pressure--cause when that contract is up we do not know what will happen

(leaf fans keep saying McDavid bolts to the leafs the moment his contract is up so the same could be said about matthews to either Arizona or one of the LA teams)

 

[LeafsNation75]

You never disputed the facts, yet you are claiming Bozak would not have been a help to the Leafs 2 lost pts in the shootout last year as your basis argument that they regressed due to the shootout?

I'd rather just talk about why Dubas is a bad GM and point to his failure to address back up goaltending for starters instead of debunking excuses like the shoot out record you keep bringing up.

For the last time I said you can not guarantee Bozak would have scored for Toronto in the shootout for them in 2019 just because of what he did in 2018.

That's why I originally mentioned him going 0-3 in the 2017 season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

For the last time I said you can not guarantee Bozak would have scored for Toronto in the shootout for them in 2019 just because of what he did in 2018.

That's why I originally mentioned him going 0-3 in the 2017 season.

And you cannot claim 100% he would not have scored since he went 3 for 5 last year which is the year you should be focusing on and based on the larger sample size he is a career 43.1% on shootouts, 10th best in NHL history.

 

[FerrisRox]

As a favor, for the rest of us Leafs fans.

Just stop.

You're not very good at this.

Stay down.

 

[CDN24]

Last season Toronto didn't play in a shootout until their 77th game against the Flyers. So even if they re-signed Bozak just for that reason it wasn't a guarantee he would have scored, because 1 year earlier he was 0-3 in the shootout.

I also brought up the shootout because going o-2 like Toronto did is part of the reason why they had 5 less points in 2018.

How the He double hockey sticks are they supposed to get 5 extra points out of the shootout when only 2 games went to a shootout- thats only 2 extra points available, If they win both they are at 102 points. The issue as it relates to shootout points seems to be that the 2017-18 squad was good enough to get to the shootout and have the opportunity to get those extra points while the 18-19 version wasn't as good and lost more games before the shootout which was kinda the original point.

Someone said that Dubas inherited a team with 105 points and 28M in space and 3rd in division. (i haven't checked that number but it seems fair). he takes over and they go to 100 points 3rd in division- no big deal. Now they are on pace for 94 points and 4th place outside the playoffs. Best case scenario is they sneak into 3rd again.

It's hard to look at this and say he improved the team.

 

[bobholly39]

I dont know if Dubas will go down as a great gm, a horrible gm or somewhere in betweeen. Whatever the case is - i guarantee Tyler Bozak will have 0 impact on it.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

As the TSN crew has stated, Dubas and this leaf core will go down as either the most loved, or the absolute most hated leaf group in history.

If the leafs don’t win the Stanley Cup in the next number of years with the highly paid core, they will be absolutely detested by the entire fan base for the rest of history.

Imagine the reactions of such a large fan base if the group of players (and gm) that demanded to be 3 of the 6 highest paid players in the entire league at the time of the signings (and being the GM that agreed to these contracts) without accomplishing anything, only to walk away without any team success? It would be a legendarily epic hatred, and for valid reasons.

 

[Dr Pepper]

And you cannot claim 100% he would not have scored since he went 3 for 5 last year which is the year you should be focusing on and based on the larger sample size he is a career 43.1% on shootouts, 10th best in NHL history.

The 10th best shootout % of all time, is a hair over 43%? That seems....inaccurate.

EDIT: when accounting for 10 or more goals? He's 27th

NHL.com Stats

As the TSN crew has stated, Dubas and this leaf core will go down as either the most loved, or the absolute most hated leaf group in history.

If the leafs don’t win the Stanley Cup in the next number of years with the highly paid core, they will be absolutely detested by the entire fan base for the rest of history.

Imagine the reactions of such a large fan base if the group of players (and gm) that demanded to be 3 of the 6 highest paid players in the entire league at the time of the signings (and being the GM that agreed to these contracts) without accomplishing anything, only to walk away without any team success? It would be a legendarily epic hatred, and for valid reasons.

I remember the days of the "Muskoka 5" and the country club atmosphere alleged to exist in the locker rooms of past underachieving Leaf teams. Almost seems like deja vu to see this team not live up to the hype yet again.

Zero playoff round wins since 2004 is beyond pathetic for such a big market club - or for any club, really. I wonder how warm that GM chair is under Dubas? If he ****s the bed yet again this season you gotta think Shanny's close to pulling the plug on this little project.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

The 10th best shootout % of all time, is a hair over 43%? That seems....inaccurate.

EDIT: when accounting for 10 or more goals? He's 27th

NHL.com Stats



I remember the days of the "Muskoka 5" and the country club atmosphere alleged to exist in the locker rooms of past underachieving Leaf teams. Almost seems like deja vu to see this team not live up to the hype yet again.

Zero playoff round wins since 2004 is beyond pathetic for such a big market club - or for any club, really. I wonder how warm that GM chair is under Dubas? If he ****s the bed yet again this season you gotta think Shanny's close to pulling the plug on this little project.

Agreed completely, except one little thing. Shanahan can not let Dubas go. Shanahan bet his entire career on the guy by letting a hall of fame GM leave, while also watching a proven hockey mind like Hunter bolt as well. If shanahan bounces dubass, that’s him admitting his vision was wrong all along, and he may as well pack his things also. The two will go down together sooner or later

 

[Drytoast]

Love it.

Pay a guy 16 mil a year and drive and motivation is gone. Sid goes off saying the same shit I've been saying all along.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Agreed completely, except one little thing. Shanahan can not let Dubas go. Shanahan bet his entire career on the guy by letting a hall of fame GM leave, while also watching a proven hockey mind like Hunter bolt as well. If shanahan bounces dubass, that’s him admitting his vision was wrong all along, and he may as well pack his things also. The two will go down together sooner or later

Shanny's already admitted fault with the Babcock hiring that fell flat.

That was on him, 100%.

I didn't have a problem with him dropping Lou and giving Dubas a shot. Injection of youth never heard anyone, kid's gotta start somewhere, right?

Also, not sure how "proven" Hunter's hockey mind is, outside of London. How much NHL managerial experience did Hunter have, prior to Shanny picking Dubas?