Speculation: Is Draisaitl expendable?

[Stoneman89]

So.... Is Draisaitl expandable???

Only if he binge eats.

 

[Magnum23]

Expendable for only maybe 2 players in the league (Makar, Mackinnon). Otherwise, you keep him and accept his flaws. Much rather have him at his current price than a player like JT Miller, Seth Jones, Bo Horvat on the team rn

 

[Yuke]

In 90 some % of all trades, the team that gets the best player usually wins the trade. In some cases, massively. Oilers were doomed from the start with the Gretzky trade. Same with the Messier trade. And the Coffey trade. And the Pronger trade. I could go on. If you don't have to, you never trade the top players. You build around them. And they won that 1990 cup on the fumes of the players we had left over, and a goaltending performance for the ages. We arguably win another 3-4 cups if they retain Gretzky.

The minute they trade Draisaitl, they're looking for another guy just like him to replace him with.

I dont think that finding another Draisaitl will be that tough. I only find him elite 10% of the games AND he must be playing with CM to be so.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

I dont think that finding another Draisaitl will be that tough. I only find him elite 10% of the games AND he must be playing with CM to be so.

Ah yes. Very easy to find multi time 50 goal 100 point players. Why don't we just pull another one of those out of our hat and make a full line of them to play with McDavid. Heck, why not grab 9 of them afterwards and fill out our entire lineup with these "not that tough" to find players.

 

[Yuke]

Ah yes. Very easy to find multi time 50 goal 100 point players. Why don't we just pull another one of those out of our hat and make a full line of them to play with McDavid. Heck, why not grab 9 of them afterwards and fill out our entire lineup with these "not that tough" to find players.

I think you can find 2 guys that will put in a total of 50 goals and that will not be give- away artists, at the same price. Thus making the total makeup of the team harder to play against.
Ever wonder why the greats seldom dominate at the Olympics or world cups? Maybe because the opposition has fewer weaker links. Look at Vegas the first year, all players could skate and be 2-3 liners. Tough to play against.

 

[Soundwave]

I dont think that finding another Draisaitl will be that tough. I only find him elite 10% of the games AND he must be playing with CM to be so.

Yeah we'll just pick up another superstar down at the Superstar market, right next to the milk and bread.

If the Oilers had Horvat instead of Draisaitl they lose last year in round 1.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I dont think that finding another Draisaitl will be that tough. I only find him elite 10% of the games AND he must be playing with CM to be so.

Bolded is onto something.

This is like 4D Chiarelli type reasoning.

he thought that Lucic would replace most of the Hall pts.

Replacing Draisaitl would be impossible. I would think that would be obvious. Guess not.

 

[Fourier]

Didn't say better, I said they won a cup.
The issue wasn't selling Gretzky, the issue was who they got back. Not one real proven player, just prospects.
Not sure I care what people on here say, they gave me a hard time last summer when I said Bouchard wasn’t good defensively and wasn't a top Dman. I got gang jumped for that. Now those same people want trade him.
Ps. I didn't compare the 2, I actually gave you an example of an elite player who was traded from a team that won the cup after ( after being challenged that it never has happened).

I reread the post that started this. They did indeed "continue to win" by the strict definition so I will accept this reference. You are of course entitled to your opinion. But in the case of this version of the Oilers they have yet to win one cup. If by trading Draisaitl you make the team worse, which you almost surely would, you make the chances of even one cup decrease. By the way it is not a coincidence that many of the posters that are most strongly against this are the old goats who were around to witness the carnage from the dismantling of the 80's dynasty. There are lessons to be learned from history.

At one point you mentioned trading him for one very good player and another good player. I think you listed Horvat for example as being in the first category. The problem there is that next year Horvat will make the same as Draisaitl so you have no room for the second component of the deal. That is the core issue when trading away an elite player in a capped world, especially one on a bargain contract. Pretty much any reasonable downgrade will already be making close to what Draisaitl gets leaving little or no room for the second piece. And even if you see Leon at say $12.5M after his raise. The additional $4M you gain now from Leon to Horvat may barely cover the skill gap if you are lucky.

Like it or not, this team has committed to a core of McDavid, Draisaitl, Nurse, Nuge, Hyman and Kane through the majority of McDavid's prime. The goal needs to be to build around that group using internal and external bodies.

 

[Fourier]

Bolded is onto something.

This is like 4D Chiarelli type reasoning.

he thought that Lucic would replace most of the Hall pts.

Replacing Draisaitl would be impossible. I would think that would be obvious. Guess not.

It's what it is. Many of the criticisms you see of Draisaitl would have been made about Messier I am sure if there was a forum like this back then and every moment of each game was put under a microscope. I can say with 100% certainty that there were lots of nights during the 80's where he looked like he was mailing it in.

Even you admitted he is having a tough year, which he is. He's obviously playing hurt. But when the puck drops on the opening night of the playoffs this guy on your side is a huge plus. His playoff performance last year on one leg rivaled the best I have seen of any Oiler not named Gretzky since I started watching the team in '72.

 

[SaltNPeca]

Every hockey GM drools in their sleep about a big franchise Center with hands.

Typical Oilers fans jump on guys like Drai at every opportunity (his draft day, his early years, when he signed his current contract, every time he's "slow & lazy" after playing 25+ minutes, etc. etc.). No surprise as a long time fan.

I was actually so happy for Jason Arnott winning his Cup, getting his >1000 NHL games, serving as an NHL Captain, and so on more or less immediately after being chased out of town by the local haters.

imo: ignore all the haters and try to make this work (if possible). 2 high paid players (McDrai), no one else above ~$6M.

 

[duul]

He isn't expendable at all, but he does need to go on LTIR for a few months. Guy can barely move out there.

 

[Yuke]

Yeah we'll just pick up another superstar down at the Superstar market, right next to the milk and bread.

If the Oilers had Horvat instead of Draisaitl they lose last year in round 1.

Valid opinion.
One legged Draisaitl had a great playoff and you may be correct but look at this from a different angle.
We were a 1 line playoff team, Makar was on the ice whenever that #1 line was on ( what an awesome player). But if Horvat was center of the 2nd line we spread the offence out. And with Horvat's salary we could have made the move to grab a defender also, lets say Josh Mason. Now we have 2 strong lines as well as 2 strong sets of D. Harder for Makar to cover the goal scorers and easier for the Oil to cover Avs top lines.

 

[Yuke]

Every hockey GM drools in their sleep about a big franchise Center with hands.

Typical Oilers fans jump on guys like Drai at every opportunity (his draft day, his early years, when he signed his current contract, every time he's "slow & lazy" after playing 25+ minutes, etc. etc.). No surprise as a long time fan.

I was actually so happy for Jason Arnott winning his Cup, getting his >1000 NHL games, serving as an NHL Captain, and so on more or less immediately after being chased out of town by the local haters.

imo: ignore all the haters and try to make this work (if possible). 2 high paid players (McDrai), no one else above ~$6M.

You are confused, nobody hates Draisaitl, if anything it is respect. He will get his big payday and I think that money can be spread out.
I point out his flaws to prove he isn't the perfect player many make him out to be.

He isn't expendable at all, but he does need to go on LTIR for a few months. Guy can barely move out there.

You could be right

 

[Soundwave]

Valid opinion.
One legged Draisaitl had a great playoff and you may be correct but look at this from a different angle.
We were a 1 line playoff team, Makar was on the ice whenever that #1 line was on ( what an awesome player). But if Horvat was center of the 2nd line we spread the offence out. And with Horvat's salary we could have made the move to grab a defender also, lets say Josh Mason. Now we have 2 strong lines as well as 2 strong sets of D. Harder for Makar to cover the goal scorers and easier for the Oil to cover Avs top lines.

It wouldn't matter either way because Makar would be playing the Calgary Flames in that series. Now examine how much you love the idea of trading Draisaitl.

Balance is overrated, this is the same dumb logic we used in trading away Taylor Hall for pennies on the dollar, top end, game changing skill is still the most vital aspect to have on a team and I believe this is becoming more evident, not less, as the league becomes more and more skill-based.

If your management can't find OK depth players without trading away their second best player ... the problem is not the players, the problem is your management.

 

[FlameChampion]

Expendable - "of little significance when compared to an overall purpose, and therefore able to be abandoned."

Therefore the answer is no.

His 5 on 5 play (and defensive) has been disappointing this year imo. At the ASG, he pretty much said so. So he knows it. Who knows whether its injury related or not.

 

[Yuke]

It wouldn't matter either way because Makar would be playing the Calgary Flames in that series. Now examine how much you love the idea of trading Draisaitl.

Balance is overrated, this is the same dumb logic we used in trading away Taylor Hall for pennies on the dollar, top end, game changing skill is still the most vital aspect to have on a team and I believe this is becoming more evident, not less, as the league becomes more and more skill-based.

If your management can't find OK depth players without trading away their second best player ... the problem is not the players, the problem is your management.

Let me ask you this. Is Vegas a better today than they were their first year? Who was the elite offensive players on the Blues when they won the cup (I dont believe Leon is a defensive specialist)?

 

[Soundwave]

Let me ask you this. Is Vegas a better today than they were their first year? Who was the elite offensive players on the Blues when they won the cup (I dont believe Leon is a defensive specialist)?

It's hard to say with Vegas because they've had massive injury problems the last two years. The current version of their team may well be better.

The Blues won through "depth" ... OK ... that's one team, how about the Penguins winning multiple Cups? Think that happens if they ditch Malkin? Nope.

The bottom line is in reality is you're not going to be able to sell McDavid on the idea on a future with the Oilers without Draisaitl here. Plain and simple. You're not some car salesman who's going to take some grandma to the cleaners in that situation, ok, reality is if you want McDavid here, you have to have Draisaitl.

If you want to build through "depth", like the Oilers tried for the better part of 1993-2005 and 2007-2014, you can go back to that once McDavid/Draisaitl aren't here. We had plenty of that, as far as I'm concerned we can try to build this way and give it a fair shot before wanting to go back to just having a roster full of no-names.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Let me ask you this. Is Vegas a better today than they were their first year? Who was the elite offensive players on the Blues when they won the cup (I dont believe Leon is a defensive specialist)?

Blue won with elite goaltending by Binnington and elite defense led by Norris candidate and Olympian Alex Pietreangelo

they've never reached those heights again

 

[Yuke]

It's hard to say with Vegas because they've had massive injury problems the last two years. The current version of their team may well be better.

The Blues won through "depth" ... OK ... that's one team, how about the Penguins winning multiple Cups? Think that happens if they ditch Malkin? Nope.

The bottom line is in reality is you're not going to be able to sell McDavid on the idea on a future with the Oilers without Draisaitl here. Plain and simple. You're not some car salesman who's going to take some grandma to the cleaners in that situation, ok, reality is if you want McDavid here, you have to have Draisaitl.

If you want to build through "depth", like the Oilers tried for the better part of 1993-2005 and 2007-2014, you can go back to that once McDavid/Draisaitl aren't here. We had plenty of that, as far as I'm concerned we can try to build this way and give it a fair shot before wanting to go back to just having a roster full of no-names.

Totally agree with your statement on CM, he would be the main factor in the whole conversation.
Those years you speak of were awful, for those that crap on Katz should remember those days and be happy we have an owner willing to spend max cap. CM is our salesman, without him UFAs dont come here

 

[Stoneman89]

Totally agree with your statement on CM, he would be the main factor in the whole conversation.
Those years you speak of were awful, for those that crap on Katz should remember those days and be happy we have an owner willing to spend max cap. CM is our salesman, without him UFAs dont come here

Again, you build around players like this, not with them.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

It's what it is. Many of the criticisms you see of Draisaitl would have been made about Messier I am sure if there was a forum like this back then and every moment of each game was put under a microscope. I can say with 100% certainty that there were lots of nights during the 80's where he looked like he was mailing it in.

Even you admitted he is having a tough year, which he is. He's obviously playing hurt. But when the puck drops on the opening night of the playoffs this guy on your side is a huge plus. His playoff performance last year on one leg rivaled the best I have seen of any Oiler not named Gretzky since I started watching the team in '72.

Haha, I was old enough to remember the Messier criticisms.

But in hindsight that was when Sather had complete control of the media, and could coach through the Edmonton Journal.


The guy literally had to win a Stanley Cup on his own and a Hart Trophy to shake being nothing more than a sidekick.

 

[sepHF]

I dont think that finding another Draisaitl will be that tough. I only find him elite 10% of the games AND he must be playing with CM to be so.

it must be a miracle he's been able to put up such insane offensive production when he's only playing well 10% of the time

 

[Yuke]

it must be a miracle he's been able to put up such insane offensive production when he's only playing well 10% of the time

Grab a dictionary and look up elite, see if it means the same as playing WELL.

 

[EnufAlready]

Grab a dictionary and look up elite, see if it means the same as playing WELL.

He has elite skill. He does not play an elite game and hasn't for a very long time. Fun to watch at times, VERY fun. sickening to watch at other times especially knowing what he is capable of.

 

[djbard99]

He’s fighting something that’s for sure. Hope we can rest him up if he needs