Is Downie bringing us down with the refs?

[KrisLetAngry]

Pens have some mentally weak players for sure.

It's not just Downie. Arguably he is the worse though.

But honestly if we face the Rangers and Marc Staal is taking head shots on Sidney Crosby and they aren't being called. I'm ok with sending Downie over there and running him over. I don't even care if we get a 5 minutes were we go on the penalty kill.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Downie isn't the problem, but he's an easy scapegoat.

Especially for the coaches.

He plays every game like he gives a ****, and I'm willing as a fan to put up with some of his stupidity because of that. He was a really good player during the weekend and almost tied the game by himself based on heart on Saturday afternoon.

It just kills me that Kunitz and Sutter - the two guys responsible for handing the wings their third goal and putting the game out of reach - get off without a word from the coach. Hell, if you read into some of his comments after the game, it's like he was defending them.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The Pens certainly believe so, to a man.

From Dejan Kovacevic on January 16:

The NHL’s referees, in general, hate the Penguins.

I don’t think that, you might not think that, and there might not be a shred of truth behind the statement. But perception is reality. And that perception, be very sure, is the one held inside Consol Energy Center’s home locker room.

What’s more, the perception is held in large part because Steve Downie, whom the refs really hate, plays in Pittsburgh.

I won’t name names here, but suffice it to say that this perception is pretty much universally held. And it goes like this: The refs bitterly resent having to track Downie’s every move on the ice, including behind the play, as well as the sillier antics such as that bizarre unsportsmanlike minor a couple of weeks ago for flat-out refusing to leave the inside of the faceoff circle. It drives them batty. And because of that, they have a tough time listening to any lip from the Penguins’ players or bench. Sometimes — and this is substantiated by multiple sources — the refs won’t even come to the bench when the coaches ask, a fairly common courtesy.


To be clear, the perception isn’t that the refs are out to get the Penguins or will make calls against them. I hardly ever hear that. Rather, it’s that they don’t get the calls they feel they deserve, the hooking and holding and other obstruction — even rough stuff — that opponents do to slow their more skilled players. There’s a key distinction there, and I hope it isn’t glossed over in reading this.

This perception has become so prevalent that, amusingly, newcomer David Perron was told by teammates immediately upon arrival that he’ll have to work a lot harder here than in Edmonton to draw a penalty.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/01/16/friday-insider-refs-really-hate-penguins/

 

[billybudd]

Say what you will about Kerry Fraser, but the fact is, this is likely the view most refs have of the Pens at this point:

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/c-mon-ref-third-man-in-not-in-this-case-1.232409

That whole article should be sent to the players, with a notation saying, "time to shut your mouths out there on the ice."

See this is what I'm talking about. Just shut the **** up. You aren't playing the refs and you don't want to target them for agitation. If you get the other team off their game, you might win because of it. If you get the refs off their game, there's no way to win that battle, no matter how bad they are.

And it ain't just Downie. Perron, Letang, Crosby...just shut the **** up already (I'd include Kunitz, but I've never seen him say a word to the stripes).

Hornqvist, Martin, even Malkin this year...follow their lead. Just go out there and try to win. Someone trips you, just get up and keep battling. If the refs don't want to make a call, ripping them isn't going to change that, but, rightly or wrongly, might get you rung up on a message-sending call 5 minutes later.

Seriously, just shut the **** up Penguins.

 

[plaidchuck]

Oh shut up DK. Would be sad if true, a whole team of players skating around with the lemieux martyr syndrome.

 

[Human]

safe to say Downie won't be re-signed in the summer. which is too bad since the guy can actually play...

 

[Black Label]

Especially for the coaches.

He plays every game like he gives a ****, and I'm willing as a fan to put up with some of his stupidity because of that. He was a really good player during the weekend and almost tied the game by himself based on heart on Saturday afternoon.

It just kills me that Kunitz and Sutter - the two guys responsible for handing the wings their third goal and putting the game out of reach - get off without a word from the coach. Hell, if you read into some of his comments after the game, it's like he was defending them.

He was one of the few players that actually generated any chances against the Wings, and some people want to bench him for Adams. It's amazing that anyone can even think about singling him out when talking about why we lost. He takes penalties and he draws penalties. He's going to take more penalties than he draws simply because of his reputation, but that doesn't negate the fact that he is one of the few players that shows up on a regular basis.

The fan base complains about the Pens not having any balls and then as soon as Downie shows some, they want him neutered. When your best defenseman gets a game misconduct for mouthing off to a ref, I don't see how Downie can be at fault for the undisciplined play.

 

[plaidchuck]

It's kind of funny that a city that constantly harps on the glory days of the smash mouth 70s steelers or players like samuelsson wants the team now to be perfect gentlemen on the ice.

Guess that's due to the fanbase bring pretty young and only jumping on the hockey bandwagon after the mid 2000 lockout.

 

[systemsgo]

At least they're admitting to some kind of fault.

The Pens have been vocal with referees in the past and it’s something they want to improve upon. Head coach Mike Johnston has addressed the issue with the players throughout the season.

“We talk about how we deal with the officials as a team, we have talked about that,†Johnston said. “The officials in this league do so many games with teams. How you handle the officials as a coach and as a leadership group, the other players shouldn’t be dealing with the officials at all. It’s the leadership group and the coaches.

"How you deal with the coaches has an impact as you move forward because referees talk to each other. You don’t want to have the reputation of being a team that complains or whines. I don’t believe that we have, but I’ve seen some signs during the course of the year that I don’t like. We have to address them as they come up.â€

Letang admits the team has made strides in dealing with officials, but still needs to improve.

“Compared to a few years ago, I think we’ve been better,†Letang said. “But that’s the way that people see us. We’re always all over the referee so we need to get better at that, even better than this year. We have to control what we can control and not worry about those things.â€

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=758334&cmpid=pit-fb-penguins

 

[plaidchuck]

Me, I remember the glory days but also remember a soft toothless mid 90s team that got beaten single handedly by stu barnes.

 

[djt153]

i'll admit to wishing johnston was more emotional in his dealings with the refs, but that comes from a very primal short term oriented place.

 

[Penguinator]

A mind blowing -61 penalties differential from last season makes me assume that Downie mat have had a bad influence on the Pens discipline so far.

If Frazer basically said we're screwed then Sid better lead by exemple and shut the **** up already.

This is getting ridiculous as we can't win by fighting both opponents AND refs!

 

[Mordax]

The Pens certainly believe so, to a man.

From Dejan Kovacevic...

I got that far and stopped reading.

It's kind of funny that a city that constantly harps on the glory days of the smash mouth 70s steelers or players like samuelsson wants the team now to be perfect gentlemen on the ice.

Guess that's due to the fanbase bring pretty young and only jumping on the hockey bandwagon after the mid 2000 lockout.

I'd say people just want their team to win games, which hard when you're on the PK the whole time

 

[BHD]

I'm alright with them not retaining Downie if it means this team doesn't have to kill off unnecessary or unwarranted penalties every game.

As for the refs in general... Guys like Letang, Hornqvist, and Kunitz need to bit their tongue for the time being. The only thing it leads to is more time in the box.

 

[billybudd]

It's kind of funny that a city that constantly harps on the glory days of the smash mouth 70s steelers or players like samuelsson wants the team now to be perfect gentlemen on the ice.

Guess that's due to the fanbase bring pretty young and only jumping on the hockey bandwagon after the mid 2000 lockout.

I want the exact opposite, actually, but running your mouth at the officials serves absolutely no purpose.

 

[Joejosh999]

I want them trolling the opposing bench, not the refs.
Really it's the stupidest thing you can do.

 

[TNT87]

How many times do we keep hearing that the coaches will speak to the team about discipline? They don't listen and it's been that way for years now.

When Downie is actually playing hockey, and not flying off the handle, he is a solid player to have on the team but there has always been something off with this guy in the head.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The league creates a double standard for themselves and makes them look real dumb.

Downie is a reactionary player, and most times when the Penguins lose their minds is also reactionary.

Do you see the root of the problem?

It's not the players or the team(s).

The league doesn't protect it's players, so.. it forces teams to fend for themselves, ie, Downie and the like, then they take issue when teams do their job for them housing players such as, Downie.

The NHL created their own monster. The trail leads right back to them.

NHL...."Do your job."

 

[Xavier Laflamme*]

Curious to see what the statistics say in terms of PP opportunities for and against for teams that iced Downie and what they were the year before having them. I'm just to lazy to look it up.

 

[roquay]

The refs just need to call penalties as they see them. Not who's number is on someones back, not by what the score is, not because someone complains about it and not what arena they are in.

They have been really bad as a whole in Penguins games this year. What I dont get is why they would want to be intentionally bad at their jobs but I guess with the lack of accountability by the NHL allows them this.

If the refs get too emotionally involved in games they need to be let go.

 

[Penguinator]

The refs just need to call penalties as they see them. Not who's number is on someones back, not by what the score is, not because someone complains about it and not what arena they are in.

They have been really bad as a whole in Penguins games this year. What I dont get is why they would want to be intentionally bad at their jobs but I guess with the lack of accountability by the NHL allows them this.

If the refs get too emotionally involved in games they need to be let go.

They don't like it when players dispute their authority so these control freaks tend to lose their objectivity when their calls, even if they're bad, are challenged...

 

[66-30-33]

Naw, team is full of stupid players.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

This team has been whining to the refs for years. They have a reputation for it. This is nothing new with Downie.

Downie is being used as a scapegoat for the rest of the team having lack of discipline.

The only identity this team has, and has had the past few years, is lack of discipline.

Really sad and pathetic what this organization has become. They went from an up and coming hard team to play against to a bunch of ***** whiners that can't keep their **** together for the life of them.

 

[madinsomniac]

People chided me earlier this season when I said we needed to get Downie off the team for just this reason... yes he is a good bottom 6 guy and yes he brings grit and secondary scoring to the team, but thanks to the garage league refs, you cant afford to have that guy on the ice during meaningful games because he is a liability even if he does absolutely nothing thanks to the hardcore rep he earned. He gets penalized more for his rep than his actions, though he is sometimes taking clear and legit stupid penalties in key times as well...

 

[madinsomniac]

For the anti-scapegoat argument:
-Downie has 221 pim this season... top in the league and 47 (27%) more than the next closest guy...
-He has two times the penalty minutes than two of the top ten guys in the NHL. -He has gotten a ton of critical even ups or phantom calls bat the worse possible times when refs usually call nothing...
-Letang is next on the pens with 71 pim in 63 games... the next 3 highest totaled Pens in PIm's are now off the team (Bortz, Despres, and Sill).
-He leads the league in Minor penalties, so its not just fighting minutes elevating his stats...
-Boarding is the only penalty type he has not been called for this year