In your opinion. When you're playing against guys who don't train and limited amount of people play in the NHL the super skilled guys stand out more.
Not that they weren't great players but Crosby is definitely in the same tier IMO.
Is Crosby The GOAT?
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In your opinion. When you're playing against guys who don't train and limited amount of people play in the NHL the super skilled guys stand out more.
Not that they weren't great players but Crosby is definitely in the same tier IMO.
Thenameless
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He's not close to the greatest Penguin of all time, Mario Lemieux. In today's game, Lemieux would be getting 130-170 points per season.
McGuires Corndog
Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
Ofc the GOAT (Lemieux was even better imo, but Gretzky is still the greatest because of what he achieved) is going to outscore any rookie by pretty much. So at least compare from year 2.
Then you get this result:
1. Gretzky 862 games 1583 points (1,84ppg)
2. Lemieux 672 games 1394 points (2.07ppg)
source: NHL.com - Stats
Where did I say he was? I said he is in the conversation behind Gretzky and Lemieux with those two unquestioned 1 and 2 so not sure what you are getting at...
The Shovel Penguin
Do work.
I would take social media banter with a grain of salt, though. They've also called Mario the "O.G. (original goat)" People use the term "GOAT" a lot on social media when just describing someone as being really, truly phenomenally great, but it's also a term that gets thrown around very loosely. Probably too loosely for those that mean GOAT literally.
Actually Orr is only one, who challenge Gretzky for #1. Putting Crosby challenging him is pretty much.
Dudes are in better shape than Crosby?
I said these guys played against people who didn't train much and didnt take hockey as seriously. You further my point by showing pictures of the top guys with no shirts off that you have saved on your phone for some reason.
For the record after Crosby is done I see it as:
1. Gretz
2. Lemieux
3. Orr
4. Crosby
McGuires Corndog
Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
Since you enjoyed the show so much, and muscles and training are so critical to the success of these players vs their peers (your words, not mine), feast your eyes on this man mountain. It’s no surprise he is the real GOAT will all these muscles.
McDavidCrushedLarkin
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Serious answer, NO!
He isn't 2nd either.
Its difficult to compare players of different periods but Crosby probably should rank well down the list somewhere when talking 'All Time'.
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
He absolutely would have won more if not for injuries, but look at the number of times he was outscored/beaten in PPG by at least one other player.
2008: Beaten in PPG by Ovechkin
2009: Beaten in PPG by Ovechkin and Malkin
2010: Beaten in PPG by Ovechkin and Henrik Sedin
2015: Led the NHL in PPG but lost the scoring Title to Jamie Benn. He missed five games that season. Jagr missed 19 games in 2000 and still won the Art Ross that year. Lemieux missed 24 games in 1993 but won the Art by 12 points. Crosby was at a prime age during the 2015 season.
2016: Beaten in PPG and outscored by 21 points by Kane. Beaten in PPG by Benn
2017: Beaten in PPG by McDavid
2018: Outside of the top 10 in PPG and points.
You have six seasons where he was outpaced by at least one other player and a season in which he missed only five games but lost the Art Ross to a player no one would ever claim is one of the all-time greats (Tavares outscored him as well). Some claim Ovechkin isn't a generational player and he beat Crosby in PPG three seasons in a row. Some say McDavid isn't generational and he's beaten Crosby in PPG three seasons in a row (well, that will be the case soon anyway). Kane, H. Sedin and Jamie Benn have also outpaced him.
He had a four season stretch where he could have dominated the Art Ross race from 2010-2014 but missed significant time due to injuries. Gordie Howe owned the Art Ross from 1951 to 1954. Jagr owned it from 1998 to 2001. McDavid may win at least four in a row.
You can argue Crosby > Jagr due to his Conn Smythes and leadership, but they are comparable all-time. Some believe he is better than Howe, but I think many conservative historians would rank Howe above him. He's a tremendous player and should be a top 10 player all-time if he isn't already.
However, he has no business whatsoever being in the "GOAT" conversation. None.
Hockey was very competitive when Jagr was winning his Art Rosses - from a pure talent standpoint, the argument can be made that he is better than Gretzky and Howe for the reasons one would try to argue Crosby is better than either, but I don't see anyone making that claim.
If the "continual evolution" of the sport is a thing, then there's no reason McDavid shouldn't be in the conversation for "most talented to ever play" if people want to put Crosby there based on the idea that the NHL has evolved significantly since the glory days of Gretzky, Lemieux and Jagr considering he will be the reigning two-time Art Ross winner and the NHL is supposedly the best and most talented it has ever been.
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Mbraunm
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If we are looking at strength and size, the league was slightly bigger and stronger 20 years ago. In today’s game of speed and non-obstruction, players MUCH smaller can actually dominate. Players in the obstruction era were actually stronger (on average) than today for sure.
And btw, because most players from the 80s and earlier didn’t train consistently in the offseason, it took 3 weeks to one month into the regular season for everyone to get into “game shape”. However, after that point, in terms of game shape, there is likely no difference between previous eras and ours.
As a trained and certified Medical Rehabilitation Science professional, I can tell you that the argument of diet and exercise being a modern edge is completely overblown. The Soviets of the 70s-early 90s were actually significantly better conditioned than most modern NHL players-conditioning techniques haven’t changed much.
However, NHL players today are much more consistent and disciplined in using these principles than in previous eras. However, once in game shape, there isn’t any significant difference (from a physiological perspective) between the eras. Saying that previous eras were old, out of shape farts is, from a physiological perspective, rather errant.
The body adapts quickly to diet and exercise, it truly wouldn’t take previous era’s players very long to adapt and fit right in to the modern game.
And btw, because most players from the 80s and earlier didn’t train consistently in the offseason, it took 3 weeks to one month into the regular season for everyone to get into “game shape”. However, after that point, in terms of game shape, there is likely no difference between previous eras and ours.
As a trained and certified Medical Rehabilitation Science professional, I can tell you that the argument of diet and exercise being a modern edge is completely overblown. The Soviets of the 70s-early 90s were actually significantly better conditioned than most modern NHL players-conditioning techniques haven’t changed much.
However, NHL players today are much more consistent and disciplined in using these principles than in previous eras. However, once in game shape, there isn’t any significant difference (from a physiological perspective) between the eras. Saying that previous eras were old, out of shape farts is, from a physiological perspective, rather errant.
The body adapts quickly to diet and exercise, it truly wouldn’t take previous era’s players very long to adapt and fit right in to the modern game.
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
If Gretzky was such a great player, why didn't he play in an era where OP could watch him?
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
From a skill perspective, how is he superior to Jaromir Jagr in his prime?
Also, do you really think Crosby's shot is something that puts him in the conversation for greatest player ever? He's adept at deflecting shots and knocking pucks out of the air and has keen anticipation around the net, but he's not exactly an all-time great shooter.
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GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Giroux, Getzlaf and Kane really aren't all that far from a PPG of 1.00 in the playoffs.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
dont even have to look past the Penguins to find one...Malkin
157 points in 149 games (1.05ppg)
stampedingviking
Registered User
Since you enjoyed the show so much, and muscles and training are so critical to the success of these players vs their peers (your words, not mine), feast your eyes on this man mountain. It’s no surprise he is the real GOAT will all these muscles.
If you look back I said less people would be pursuing to play in the NHL and there was less training so the super skilled players would stand out more. With all players training hard instead of some it means the average player would be better. Crazy how that works.
Since it's hard for you to understand, that doesn't mean that 0 people trained in Howe's era. It's easier to play and take advantage of people who smoked and drank regularly during their season and didn't take as good of care of their bodies. Are you going to argue that the average NHLer took better care of their bodies during Howe's era than Crosby's? Seems what you're getting at with these shirtless pictures.
And FYI Gretzky did not play in the Howe or Orr era (Orr 13 years older, Howe like 33 years older) he played in the 80s and 90s guess you didn't realize that.
Also do you really believe that Gretzky never trained or worked on his game?
Sidney Crosby had memorable year at Minnesota prep school
If they win again, I think his legacy in the top of the 2nd tier will be cemented if it isn't already.
If they win again, I think his legacy in the top of the 2nd tier will be cemented if it isn't already.
Gretzky was 37 in 1998 and was still 4th in league scoring. Let’s see if Sid can even play till 37.
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
I think the more important thing to compare across era's is resume over peers. Crosby could potentially have 5 Art Ross' by now if he remained healthy. That would have put him close to Howe company to me. It's just to bad we lost his peak years to injury because it will always remain a "what if" scenario with Sid. To be on Gretz level you have to at least win 10 Ross and be pretty comparable in Hart's. Gretz should probably have 10 of those as well as I think he was robbed of at least 1.
Sid isn't the GOAT but I think if he remained healthy he is easily a top 5 forward of all time. Behind Gretz and Lemieux for me. Where he goes in the rest of conversation would have been heavily up for debate.
Sid isn't the GOAT but I think if he remained healthy he is easily a top 5 forward of all time. Behind Gretz and Lemieux for me. Where he goes in the rest of conversation would have been heavily up for debate.
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