Is Auston Matthews a "generational goal scorer"? A deep dive.

[Dekes For Days]

You do realize there is nothing advanced about advanced stats right?

Yes I do. The ones I use are incredibly simple to use and understand. Which means there's really no excuse for not using these stats that illustrate a better picture of reality.

 

[Dekes For Days]

it is only recently that Ovie has been looked at as generational.

People called Ovechkin generational after his rookie season, and it was pretty much unanimous after his ELC.

 

[Kazparov]

People are too willing to throw the word Generational around. Kid hasn't even scored 50 goals yet.

Yes he is a great player, a great goal scorer and I'm thrilled he is a leaf.

I could probably think of a half dozen players outside of the "generational" talents we normally talk about who were better scorers/offensive players than him.

 

[BlueBaron]

People called Ovechkin generational after his rookie season, and it was pretty much unanimous after his ELC.

I disagree. That seems like revisionist history to me. I've been watching the whole time and do not recall any kind of general acceptance of that notion until he was threatening Gretzky's record. Maybe a couple Russian guys did, or Caps fans but regardless, it's a foolish term to use at the beginning of someone's career anyway.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I disagree. That seems like revisionist history to me. I've been watching the whole time and do not recall any kind of general acceptance of that notion until he was threatening Gretzky's record. Maybe a couple Russian guys did, or Caps fans but regardless, it's a foolish term to use at the beginning of someone's career anyway.

Yes it is foolish at the beginning of Matthews career also.

 

[BlueBaron]

Yes it is foolish at the beginning of Matthews career also.

And even (dare I say it?) McDavid.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Matthews is good

 

[The Apologist]

People are too willing to throw the word Generational around. Kid hasn't even scored 50 goals yet.

Yes he is a great player, a great goal scorer and I'm thrilled he is a leaf.

I could probably think of a half dozen players outside of the "generational" talents we normally talk about who were better scorers/offensive players than him.

Were or are?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I disagree. That seems like revisionist history to me. I've been watching the whole time and do not recall any kind of general acceptance of that notion until he was threatening Gretzky's record. Maybe a couple Russian guys did, or Caps fans but regardless, it's a foolish term to use at the beginning of someone's career anyway.

I mean whether you saw it or not, it was happening everywhere, by people with no allegiances to Washington or Russia.

I don't really see what benefit there is to waiting 20 years to call something what it is, but everybody has a different meaning of the word so the word itself is now pretty useless anyway. Fact is we have the best goal scorer in the world, and the best goal scorer we have seen in a generation. That should be cherished and appreciated as it's happening.

 

[BlueBaron]

I mean whether you saw it or not, it was happening everywhere, by people with no allegiances to Washington or Russia.

I don't really see what benefit there is to waiting 20 years to call something what it is, but everybody has a different meaning of the word so the word itself is now pretty useless anyway. Fact is we have the best goal scorer in the world, and the best goal scorer we have seen in a generation. That should be cherished and appreciated as it's happening.

Google doesn't really agree with your assessment of his status. Until recently it has not been a topic beyond his "generational personality" in 2015 so I think the disagreement is with how many people thought that. I'm sure some people always thought he was but it was a fringe opinion until the last couple years.

It's a bit odd you think being called "generational" somehow makes watching them play a better experience. It seems to me the only thing it does is make the fans of said player feel he is even more special so they can lord it over other fans, see Edmonton. It's essentially wanting to be ranked with the all time greats without playing the games. Kind of cheesy IMO.

Was Cam Neely generational? The answer is no but his points and goals per 60 were awesome, so why isn't he? Didn't play the games...

 

[TDotMassive]

If we are saying "generational goal scorer", then the answer is clearly yes. Matthews will go down as the best pure goal scorer of his generation, much like Ovi before him. If we are talking about "generational overall player", then I would say no. Matthews is in a tier just below guys like Orr, Gretzky, Crosby and now McDavid. Matthews is a tier-1 superstar, just below generation player. He's in a tier with guys like Ovi, Malkin, Jagr, Messier, etc...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Google doesn't really agree with your assessment of his status.

Really? Because google showed me a bunch of stuff from the early 2010s. People said it even earlier for Crosby and McDavid. And sometimes Malkin. And Lindros. Etc.

It's a bit odd you think being called "generational" somehow makes watching them play better.

It's a bit odd that you think calling something what it is while it's happening is "cheesy".

It seems to me the only thing it does is make the fans of said player feel he is even more special so they can lord it over other fans, see Edmonton.

No, we don't properly apply labels to things just to "lord it over opposing fans".

It's essentially wanting to be ranked with the all time greeats withoutplaying the games.

No, it's a way of describing players, based on the games they have played, who are doing things that only all-time greats did.

 

[BlueBaron]

Really? Because google showed me a bunch of stuff from the early 2010s. People said it even earlier for Crosby and McDavid. And sometimes Malkin. And Lindros. Etc.

It's a bit odd that you think calling something what it is while it's happening is "cheesy".

No, we don't properly apply labels to things just to "lord it over opposing fans".

No, it's a way of describing players, based on the games they have played, who are doing things that only all-time greats did.

So I guess you do think Cam Neely was generational.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So I guess you do think Cam Neely was generational.

I'm not sure what Cam Neely has to do with this, or why you're equating them.

We don't have TOI data from back then (so not sure why you're talking about his G/60), but after the first 4 years of Neely's career, he was tied for 105th in the league in goals per game.

 

[666]

Google doesn't really agree with your assessment of his status. Until recently it has not been a topic beyond his "generational personality" in 2015 so I think the disagreement is with how many people thought that. I'm sure some people always thought he was but it was a fringe opinion until the last couple years.

It's a bit odd you think being called "generational" somehow makes watching them play a better experience. It seems to me the only thing it does is make the fans of said player feel he is even more special so they can lord it over other fans, see Edmonton. It's essentially wanting to be ranked with the all time greats without playing the games. Kind of cheesy IMO.

Was Cam Neely generational? The answer is no but his points and goals per 60 were awesome, so why isn't he? Didn't play the games...

This is stupid. Orr was done at age 26 and would have been a generational talent if he had died at age 23. McDavid is already a generational talent. Just watch him play.

 

[AcerComputer]

In 2004 OV was not considered Generational, neither was Matthews. Would you trade OV for Sid in 2009? Or Matthews for McDavid now? The answer is no. It is not possible to be a Generational talent unless you are unanimously considered to be the best player in the NHL

There have been 5 Generational Talents at their draft year

LaFleur
Mario
Lindros
Sid
McDavid

Those are the only 5 names that should show up on discussion about Generational Talents.

So Gretzky was not a generational talent?

 

[icydata]

Great write up!

(I might be a bit biased!)

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

This is stupid. Orr was done at age 26 and would have been a generational talent if he had died at age 23. McDavid is already a generational talent. Just watch him play.

Orr changed the way the game was played. He's the exception, not the rule.

 

[TDK67]

Don't have much time to hang around here anymore but just wanted to bump this given Matthews' amazing year this year.

The signs pointing to him being an extremely special (i.e. "generational) goal scorer were there ~16 months ago. I'm glad he's proving he's very clearly in his own tier in terms of goal scoring ability vs anyone drafted in the past ~15 years.

I think this is just the beginning of multiple Rocket trophies and a crazy climb up the all-time goal list. Cheers peeps.

 

[3blizzard4]

HFOil is very salty Matty got 40 tonight. Apparently it’s nothing. Not a achievement at all.

 

[Confucius]

3 more goals for 200.

 

[zeke]

If only he hadn't missed 4gms he'd have 7gms left to reach 50.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Ovie also was putting up an equal number of assists (i.e. 50+) for the first like 3rd of his career.

Honestly until Matthews wins a few rockets i don't think people will think of him in the same vein

 

[Teeder Keon]

Ovie also was putting up an equal number of assists (i.e. 50+) for the first like 3rd of his career.

Honestly until Matthews wins a few rockets i don't think people will think of him in the same vein

Your keeping it real here , but it’s so real
He’s incredible and this year on a different level , but way to early for comparisons like that

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I'd bet my left nut that he'd be pushing 50 if not for that wrist injury.