Speculation: Is a possible rebuild/retool coming?

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Even if we try to rebuild, we won't get the upper hand in trading Price, Weber and what not. At best, we will be at the same place. They are not young enough to get real value out of it.

But we do need to go in a different direction as much as possible.
Next year, it's the kids for me + those we can't get rid of.....everyone else must go.

Forwards
Toffoli - Suzuki - Caufield
Anderson - Kotkaniemi - Gallagher
XXXXXX - Evans - XXXXXX
XXXXXX - Poehling - XXXXX

Adios Danault, Tatar, Armia, Perry...I don't resign any of them.
Drouin, Lehkonen, Byron....I trade all of them and use Seattle as a dumpster even if picks is needed for one of them.

Defense
Romanov - Weber
Edmundson - Petry
XXXXXX - XXXXX

It's impossible to trade Weber and get anything of value, if that opportunity comes, then I'll take it but I doubt it's possible. I keep only one of Chiarot or Edmunsdon but I think it's easier to get rid of Chiarot.

So Chiarot, Kulak, Merrill.....Bye bye!

We're set in goal.

That would leave the Habs with around 24 millions of empty cap space.
All picks are tradeable and start working from there.

Sell some of that cap space to desperate teams financially hammered by covid or their own mismanagement, their bad contracts for picks or youth to accelerate the process.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The Habs have broken with the tradition of having no stars and a team full of average players paid average salaries by going out and acquiring 4 new average players paid average salaries, except this time 2 of them are BIG.

Ensuing drooling in niagara falls fashion, followed by tireless pontification of the new yet unachieved glorious status! Best team in 30 years.

And then they wonder how and why those who are critical are so harsh.

 

[Kwikwi]

That's news to me

Adding weight, goal scorer, signing UFAs, good 2nd goalie, bought (bleh) at deadline, maximum cap space usage

That was a new experience.

 

[417]

Adding weight, goal scorer, signing UFAs, good 2nd goalie, bought (bleh) at deadline, maximum cap space usage

That was a new experience.

But I was talking about a change of organizational philosophy.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Ensuing drooling in niagara falls fashion, followed by tireless pontification of the new yet unachieved glorious status! Best team in 30 years.

And then they wonder how and why those who are critical are so harsh.

It's so funny that this team had Roman Hamrlik and Andrei Markov 10 years ago and we're supposed to praise Bergevin's genius because Edmundson had a good plus/minus or some shit. We're paying 7M to Chiarot and Edmundson, if we're trying to compete now why didn't we make Krug an offer he couldn't refuse and actually fix a big problem by overpaying for someone good instead of paying two #4-5s a #3-4 salary and pretending we've fixed the problem of no top pair LD?

Just sad to see how far the bar's fallen. We haven't had a forward better than Kovalev since he left, and then haven't had a forward better than Pacioretty since he left, but we're supposed to be thrilled because Anderson is better than Nick Cousins or Jordan Weal. Petry's been aging like fine wine and seemingly getting better every year and he's still just miles behind what Subban was for this team, let alone what the rapidly declining Man Mountain is now.

Can you believe that we're now in year 3 of this "reset" and we can't scratch Ben Chiarot or Jon Merrill for Romanov after we had zero transition play whatsoever, and people still wonder why there's fans who want the team to lose to bring SOME kind of change?

 

[Kwikwi]

But I was talking about a change of organizational philosophy.

True with all those moves they did a few.

I agree with you I would’ve rebuild, not reset

 

[417]

True with all those moves they did a few.

I agree with you I would’ve rebuild, not reset

What I'm saying is retool or reset...it won't matter, this organization's philosophy will always be conservative.

They would have won the lottery with McDavid he'd be a 60pt 2nd line C behind Danault.

Slight hyperbole... slight

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I think a lot depends on Price and Weber and how those situations move forward. Plus which UFAs they sign and who Seattle takes. But definitely the possibility is there for a fairly significant reset if for instance Price wants a trade.

 

[Kwikwi]

I think a lot depends on Price and Weber and how those situations move forward. Plus which UFAs they sign and who Seattle takes. But definitely the possibility is there for a fairly significant reset if for instance Price wants a trade.

Or Weber retired.
There must be a Vegas quote about this one

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Or Weber retired.
There must be a Vegas quote about this one

Yeah. Or maybe both?

 

[Steveshutt]

Get rid of the front office and coaching staff first, then find a way to being Bob Hartley into the organization. I live in Calgary and he did remarkable work with the Flames when he was here; they haven't been the same since.

Let the free agents walk.

Then, try to trade everyone except Caulfield, KK, Suzuki, and Romanov. Primeau's not looking like the answer in net, so prioritize finding a young goalie we can build around.

Trade Toffoli, Anderson, Petry, even Gallagher: we're a toxic organization and it's important to cash in on them now before they get too depressed and lose all confidence. If we don't do this soon, they'll quickly become diminishing assets that we won't be able to get rid of.

To prevent fan freak out - do whatever it takes to get Lafreniere. Maybe Gallager, Toffoli and a first-rounder gets it done? Some other type of package? Doesn't matter. Take back salary if necessary. Do it. The fixation on French players is real and it's never going away so this will keep the fans happy and allow them buy into the rebuild.

Price has played well enough in these playoffs and last that maybe Seattle takes a chance. Beats the heck out of bringing in Holtby or some other lesser light and gives them an immediate marketing piece. He's the quintessential Pacific Northwest kind of player. The fans will love him and he'll make them competitive for a few years.

Buy out, Weber. Keep our cap hit as low as possible.

Look at what Ottawa has accomplished in the last few years and look how much better-positioned for success they are than we are.

It can be done and in 3-5 years we'll be relevant again. The way we're currently constructed, we won't be competitive in our division for the next few years anyway. Let TB, Toronto, Boston, Ottawa, Florida have their runs. There's nothing we can do to catch them.

All we need is humility, strategy, and courage. Admit what we've become and remember we're the Montreal Canadiens for god's sake. If we're good again players will want to be a part of it. Redeem the brand and let the rest speak for itself.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Get rid of the front office and coaching staff first, then find a way to being Bob Hartley into the organization. I live in Calgary and he did remarkable work with the Flames when he was here; they haven't been the same since.

Let the free agents walk.

Then, try to trade everyone except Caulfield, KK, Suzuki, and Romanov. Primeau's not looking like the answer in net, so prioritize finding a young goalie we can build around.

Trade Toffoli, Anderson, Petry, even Gallagher: we're a toxic organization and it's important to cash in on them now before they get too depressed and lose all confidence. If we don't do this soon, they'll quickly become diminishing assets that we won't be able to get rid of.

To prevent fan freak out - do whatever it takes to get Lafreniere. Maybe Gallager, Toffoli and a first-rounder gets it done? Some other type of package? Doesn't matter. Take back salary if necessary. Do it. The fixation on French players is real and it's never going away so this will keep the fans happy and allow them buy into the rebuild.

Price has played well enough in these playoffs and last that maybe Seattle takes a chance. Beats the heck out of bringing in Holtby or some other lesser light and gives them an immediate marketing piece. He's the quintessential Pacific Northwest kind of player. The fans will love him and he'll make them competitive for a few years.

Buy out, Weber. Keep our cap hit as low as possible.

Look at what Ottawa has accomplished in the last few years and look how much better-positioned for success they are than we are.

It can be done and in 3-5 years we'll be relevant again. The way we're currently constructed, we won't be competitive in our division for the next few years anyway. Let TB, Toronto, Boston, Ottawa, Florida have their runs. There's nothing we can do to catch them.

All we need is humility, strategy, and courage. Admit what we've become and remember we're the Montreal Canadiens for god's sake. If we're good again players will want to be a part of it. Redeem the brand and let the rest speak for itself.

Dunno if Scorched Earth is the answer, but we definitely need a rebuild and it starts in Management...

 

[HuGo Sham]

this bloody, f***ing lineup is competitive enough to fight for 4th in the Atlantic if the nit wit making decisions, rebuilds this D, keeps Allen and finds a vet replacement for Danault. We're competitive up front and in goal, but at least TWO of kulak, chiarot, Weber need to GTFO..

romanov will take the next step, but they need another (young) petry...
can he be had in a blockbuster? maybe

 

[sandviper]

Dunno if Scorched Earth is the answer, but we definitely need a rebuild and it starts in Management...

We’ll have to accept Molson will remain president. I heard it somewhere, forgot where, but the president of hockey ops as a sole position isn’t prominent in the NHL (there are combined roles with GMs though) so it’d be a waste of time and energy to think Molson would have somebody else oversee the team.

GM though, sure, start there. In fact, I wonder if this would be a role Bouchard would want? He lacks NHL experience though.

Ah, F*** it... I don’t know how to fix this team without recycling the same trash at all management positions at this point. Just so tired and fed up with the team management.

As crazy as this sounds, I am going to blame Roy and to a lesser extent, Theodore. Because we have had great goaltending since the late 80’s, this stupid team is so married to the idea of building from the net out.

Yeah, I know you need a good to great goaltender, but this whole play not to lose, contain and counter is so frustrating for the past couple decades.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

We’ll have to accept Molson will remain president. I heard it somewhere, forgot where, but the president of hockey ops as a sole position isn’t prominent in the NHL (there are combined roles with GMs though) so it’d be a waste of time and energy to think Molson would have somebody else oversee the team.

GM though, sure, start there. In fact, I wonder if this would be a role Bouchard would want? He lacks NHL experience though.

Ah, F*** it... I don’t know how to fix this team without recycling the same trash at all management positions at this point. Just so tired and fed up with the team management.

As crazy as this sounds, I am going to blame Roy and to a lesser extent, Theodore. Because we have had great goaltending since the late 80’s, this stupid team is so married to the idea of building from the net out.

Yeah, I know you need a good to great goaltender, but this whole play not to lose, contain and counter is so frustrating for the past couple decades.

 

[Milhouse40]

Sell some of that cap space to desperate teams financially hammered by covid or their own mismanagement, their bad contracts for picks or youth to accelerate the process.

Sorry but I'm not into this.
We barely get NHLer from our top 10 picks....so getting a bunch of low rounds picks and doubtful prospect won't do anything. I would use that cap to fix issues now, not in 5 years from now.

 

[lamp9post]

What I'm saying is retool or reset...it won't matter, this organization's philosophy will always be conservative.

They would have won the lottery with McDavid he'd be a 60pt 2nd line C behind Danault.

Slight hyperbole... slight

I agree. I don't what it is (hubris perhaps?) that makes this org think it can be successful without higher end talent. The same reason we lost to Tampa in '15 is the reason we'll be out of the playoffs again this season. When will we learn our lesson?

 

[Rapala]

The President of Hockey Operations is an EXECUTIVE position. We can all agree the GM is the one whose vision gets pitched to the Executive Office. Having a CEO holding down dual responsibilities is just plain dumb. Particularly when the individual hasn’t demonstrated a working knowledge of the product. It doesn’t happen in the “real world” why is it happening to the Habs. The club is just a toy to Molson a very lucrative toy.

 

[lamp9post]

Sell some of that cap space to desperate teams financially hammered by covid or their own mismanagement, their bad contracts for picks or youth to accelerate the process.

Great time for Seattle to join the league...Just in time to "help out" other teams with their flat cap problems.

 

[the]

Where’s Justin and Andrew Molson and more importantly why haven’t they kicked Geoff in the nuts yet?

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Where’s Justin and Andrew Molson and more importantly why haven’t they kicked Geoff in the nuts yet?

 

[tazsub3]

It's so funny that this team had Roman Hamrlik and Andrei Markov 10 years ago and we're supposed to praise Bergevin's genius because Edmundson had a good plus/minus or some shit. We're paying 7M to Chiarot and Edmundson, if we're trying to compete now why didn't we make Krug an offer he couldn't refuse and actually fix a big problem by overpaying for someone good instead of paying two #4-5s a #3-4 salary and pretending we've fixed the problem of no top pair LD?

Just sad to see how far the bar's fallen. We haven't had a forward better than Kovalev since he left, and then haven't had a forward better than Pacioretty since he left, but we're supposed to be thrilled because Anderson is better than Nick Cousins or Jordan Weal. Petry's been aging like fine wine and seemingly getting better every year and he's still just miles behind what Subban was for this team, let alone what the rapidly declining Man Mountain is now.

Can you believe that we're now in year 3 of this "reset" and we can't scratch Ben Chiarot or Jon Merrill for Romanov after we had zero transition play whatsoever, and people still wonder why there's fans who want the team to lose to bring SOME kind of change?

Listen to masai Ujiri, who actually won a championship saying winning 2 years ago means nothing and making the playoff means nothing, in fact he says anything short of a anther championship is failure, and listen to Mb saying we make the playoffs and anything can happen and you can clearly see where and how we fail,

 

[cphabs]

This is all speculation. Even depends on what management looks like also.

But I've seen on here and on the trade forum that Montreal has a higher chance of letting all UFAs walk Tatar and Danault. There is Staal / Armia / Perry outside the top 6.

If all those players were to walk plus lose a player to Seattle let's say it is Allen. The roster could look very young next season. This is part of where I think when Elliott Friedman reported 3 weeks ago that Bergevins future was being discussed. Because signs are pointing to a rebuild or retool. Outside of Toffoli. Montreal doesn't have that great odds of signing marquee guys in the offseason. Anderson and Edmundson were basically Montreal acquired their rights and negotiated right away.

With all that in mind and again say Allen goes to Seattle, the roster would look like this:

Toffoli Suzuki Caufield
Anderson Kotkaniemi Gallagher
Byron Evans Drouin
???? Poehling ????
Ylonen

Edmundson Petry
Romanov Weber
Kulak Chiarot
Brook Fleury

Price
Primeau

Again all depends on who is in management come this offseason. Also depends again the odds seem to say they let all the UFAs walk based on their asking price and needing to also bring in more scoring.

Do you guys see a re-tool/rebuild?

Either way we are screwed! There is no way in hell it will be thought out or unbiased. We need to clean our front office and tell Molson to stay the hell out!

 

[417]

I agree. I don't what it is (hubris perhaps?) that makes this org think it can be successful without higher end talent. The same reason we lost to Tampa in '15 is the reason we'll be out of the playoffs again this season. When will we learn our lesson?

Beyond that...it seems they want to coach the natural instinct out of players who have high talent in order to turn them into obedient robots like Danault or Plekanec or Juneau.

The more generic the better.

 

[tinyzombies]

I'd rather have a 25 year old with a degree than another working class person in charge of this team. Enough is enough. We're playing checkers here.