completely wrong. you and a few others were talking about how this current roster was putrid and that they should be losing the way they were. bring in hitch, change the culture and look how much better they look in the last 10 games. culture matters. if you have a player with hall's attitude undermining your attempts to build a good team culture.... well of course you're going to spin your wheels in DFL like they had been. part of the onus absolutely lies at hall's feet as to why this team perpetually sucked so badly.
Interesting insight from Andrew Ference (31 Thoughts: The Podcast)
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completely wrong. you and a few others were talking about how this current roster was putrid and that they should be losing the way they were. bring in hitch, change the culture and look how much better they look in the last 10 games. culture matters. if you have a player with hall's attitude undermining your attempts to build a good team culture.... well of course you're going to spin your wheels in DFL like they had been. part of the onus absolutely lies at hall's feet as to why this team perpetually sucked so badly.
jeffff
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What!!, man that has to be one of the silliest things I've read.
Being a good teammate is what it is all about. Being a good teammate brings the best out of everyone around you. You've obviously never been on a great, tight team or never been on one that can be ravaged by one player.
We are seeing proof of that now FFS. Hitch compared to Todd....same players vastly different results.
ya, you don't "believe" they did anything. you don't actually know. i have heard that they definitely tried to do something about it. i'm not absolving lowe, mact etc because they should take a fair share of the blame.
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
I tend to believe that a team that has been lazy about it's processes and handlings for many years was lazy in a decade where they failed at every level.
Always half-hearted measures. "Oh this over the hill player will surely save the team!" Man, if Ference was the solution I don't want to know what the question was.
100%. it's a completely ridiculous comment by little fury. honestly if they just stuck to saying they think hall was a good talented player i'd be ok with it. but the mental gymnastics to find any way to defend hall is getting beyond silliness.
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Winning cures a lot of problems. It's no coincidence that were many whispers last year about the Oilers when they weren't doing well.
Maybe if the Oilers were ever serious about winning during Hall's tenure...
Scoring more goals is what it's all about. The Stanley Cup isn't the friends we make along the way.
All this shows is that tactics can make a difference (even though I'm not convinced that this is anything more than a dead cat bounce).
jeffff
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Of course it does. But what comes first, the chicken or the egg?
Attitude, character etc is just as important as any other element in being successful.
LOL: before Hitch was hired you were droning on about how the losing culture was so deeply entrenched since the Hall days and that's why the team still sucked all these years later. Now, just two weeks later, you're making it seem like the culture problem is solved. If culture is so easily changed, it can't be that significant.
Hitch changed the tactics to suit a team that is short on actual talent. He's riding McDavid hard and playing plugs like Lucic less. These are real on-ice adjustments that are working so far (though I have no idea how sustainable this is given the number of one goal games they're winning). It doesn't prove anything about "culture."
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Ference looks pretty bad in this. Not very leader-y and shows another reason why the Oilers of that period stank to high heaven.
As for the team culture, that's a discipline issue and management and coaches should be accountable. It's not that difficult to know what your players are up to and to take steps to alter behaviors through disciplinary actions.
As for the team culture, that's a discipline issue and management and coaches should be accountable. It's not that difficult to know what your players are up to and to take steps to alter behaviors through disciplinary actions.
harpoon
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If @CantHaveTkachev is upset by the suggestion, you can bet there is more than a little coincidence to the timing of Ference’s big interview. The fact that the Devils are awful right now .... the fact that the Oilers have actually won some games .... the fact that Chiarelli has a couple of long shots looking good. It’s the best possible moment to trot out a stooge like Ference. Start shaping that narrative.
jeffff
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Meh...you're too linear, its not so black and white. I'm not saying that a character guy is more valuable than McDavid I'm just saying it is an important piece. It is also much more important when the best player on the team does not wreak havoc on the team. Huge difference between the best player having character problems and a 3rd/4th line plug...massive difference.
This was Halls team, and he fcuked that up because of his sh!tty attitude, it is that simple. It was 100% on Hall and something he had 100% control over. People either agree with that or they don't.
"I can’t really hear what Andrew says, because I got my two... Oh, I heard every word actually." - Taylor Hall
harpoon
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Uhh ... no? Those posters defending Hall (and Eberle) in this thread for the most part recognize and stipulate that Hall was a young man with some issues. He can accept a part of the blame. It’s the Chiarelli fans that won’t hear a decent word spoken about Hall without being thrown into a raging tirade about how Hall was practically the devil. And was mean to poor Nail Yakupov on top of that.
bucks_oil
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- Aug 25, 2005
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Paragraph 1: you may be right. Ference didn't say and I'll keep my unfounded speculation to myself. He also didn't say the toe draggers were going to party... he said the guys who appreciated toe drags more than hard work... it could easily include guys who idolized the toe draggers, were not toe draggers themselves and needed to focus on WORK rather than toe dragging at practice. His point was a more general one... that guys liked "easy" hockey rather than hard work. I found the part about making fun of trying hard at practice to be the most damaging affront to team play. Anyone who has played with talented players that don't give 100% knows exactly how that feels to the guys who had to play at 110% to even make the team (and I'll admit, I've been both... its part of growing up).
Paragraph 2: I fundamentally disagree here. It's about the Stanley Cup, not individual glory and Ference has one. Ference was an Assistant captain on that team. He was far from a bit player, but he got that cup (like many on that team) through hard work and with limited talent. That (plus his work in the community) made him a legend in Boston... I know, I lived across the street from the garden and the best stay-at-home D in my beer league CRIED when he signed with us. In Boston, Ference typified what was magical about sport... that sometimes deep effort and passion were enough to reach your dreams. (it sucks that Eakins didn't let things play out rather than giving him the C... cuz it would have been much better for all for that to be an inceptive lesson rather than a directive)
Paragraph 3: Not sure where you went with this or why... Lucic, by all accounts, is a great teammate. Willfully contributed to toxicity and division? You don't know that... in fact it sounds like he was trying to get guys to buy in and be on the SAME page... the exact opposite of division... and that what he was dealing with was a room that was already divided... in any case a guy trying to get some unprofessional athletes to be more professional might cause division if the unprofessional guys aren't willing to change or too dense to listen. This story by the way is a recurring theme from those days.... that there were players in the room that didn't want to put the effort in. The team cycled through multiple captains (3) and multiple coaches (. It ate them up and spit them out. That shouldn't happen.
I'm really not sure what people are up in arms about. We know the team in that era was devoid of vet leadership. We know a losing culture was created. We know the kids maybe had too much pressure put on them (one perspective), or were too immature to take on the pressure (the other perspective). And we know that management was unable to correct the situation in a timely or proactive manner. Situations like that have many victims and many actors. Why does one of the guys, who had a LONG career as a good teammate elsewhere contrasting his experience with what it was like to play on a better team with a stronger leadership core get people so upset?
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
for those thinking that Ference;'s comments will upset the current oilers
14/15 was the last time he played a full season--here is the list of players from that team--how many are still on the team? Why would players care about what happened before they arrived?
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14/15 was the last time he played a full season--here is the list of players from that team--how many are still on the team? Why would players care about what happened before they arrived?
| 14 | Jordan Eberle | C | 81 | 24 | 39 | 63 | 24 | -16 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | SASK: Regina | 24 |
| 93 | Ryan Nugent-Hopkins | C | 76 | 24 | 32 | 56 | 25 | -12 | BC: Burnaby | 21 | |||||
| 4 | Taylor Hall | L | 53 | 14 | 24 | 38 | 40 | -1 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: Calgary | 22 |
| 67 | Benoit Pouliot | L | 58 | 19 | 15 | 34 | 28 | -1 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Alfred | 27 |
| 16 | Ted Purcell | R | 82 | 12 | 22 | 34 | 24 | -33 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | NFLD: St. John's | 28 |
| 10 | Nail Yakupov | R | 81 | 14 | 19 | 33 | 18 | -35 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Russia: Nizhnekamsk | 20 |
| 19 | Justin Schultz | D | 81 | 6 | 25 | 31 | 12 | -17 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | BC: Kelowna | 24 |
| 8 | Derek Roy 1 | C | 46 | 11 | 11 | 22 | 22 | -13 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Ottawa | 31 |
| 51 | Anton Lander | C | 38 | 6 | 14 | 20 | 14 | -12 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Sweden: Sundsvall | 23 |
| 84 | Oscar Klefbom | D | 60 | 2 | 18 | 20 | 4 | -21 | Sweden: Karlstad | 21 | |||||
| 57 | David Perron 2 | L | 38 | 5 | 14 | 19 | 20 | -17 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | PQ: Sherbrooke | 26 |
| 23 | Matt Hendricks | C | 71 | 8 | 8 | 16 | 76 | -14 | MN: Blaine | 33 | |||||
| 2 | Jeff Petry 3 | D | 59 | 4 | 11 | 15 | 32 | -25 | MI: Ann Arbor | 26 | |||||
| 21 | Andrew Ference | D | 70 | 3 | 11 | 14 | 39 | -17 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: Edmonton | 35 |
| 27 | Boyd Gordon | C | 68 | 6 | 7 | 13 | 17 | -5 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | SASK: Unity | 30 |
| 26 | Mark Arcobello 4 | F | 36 | 7 | 5 | 12 | 12 | -7 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | CT: Milford | 26 |
| 86 | Nikita Nikitin | D | 42 | 4 | 6 | 10 | 12 | -12 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Russia: Omsk | 28 |
| 28 | Matt Fraser 5 | L | 36 | 5 | 4 | 9 | 10 | -11 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: Red Deer | 24 |
| 29 | Leon Draisaitl | C | 37 | 2 | 7 | 9 | 4 | -17 | Germany: Cologne | 18 | |||||
| 5 | Mark Fayne | D | 74 | 2 | 6 | 8 | 14 | -21 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | NH: Nashua | 27 |
| 18 58 | Andrew Miller | R | 9 | 1 | 5 | 6 | 0 | -2 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | MI: Bloomfield Hills | 25 |
| 85 | Martin Marincin | D | 41 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 16 | -4 | Slovakia: Kosice | 22 | |||||
| 13 | Steve Pinizzotto | R | 18 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 30 | 1 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Mississauga | 30 |
| 6 | Jesse Joensuu | L | 20 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 14 | -8 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Finland: Pori | 26 |
| 20 | Luke Gazdic | L | 40 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 43 | -4 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Toronto | 25 |
| 24 59 | Brad Hunt | D | 11 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 0 | -6 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | BC: Maple Ridge | 26 |
| 62 | Iiro Pakarinen | R | 17 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | -4 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Finland: Loviisa | 23 |
| 12 | Rob Klinkhammer 6 | L | 40 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 23 | -7 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: Lethbridge | 28 |
| 15 68 | Tyler Pitlick | C | 17 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 4 | -3 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | MN: Minneapolis | 22 |
| 48 | Ryan Hamilton | L | 16 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 6 | -8 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Oshawa | 29 |
| 6 87 | David Musil | D | 4 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 | -2 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | BC: Delta | 21 |
| 88 | Brandon Davidson | D | 12 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | -5 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: Taber | 23 |
| 82 | Jordan Oesterle | D | 6 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | -4 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | MI: Dearborn Heights | 22 |
| 22 | Keith Aulie | D | 31 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 66 | -3 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | SASK: Rouleau | 25 |
| 30 | Ben Scrivens | G | 57 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: Spruce Grove | 27 |
| 1 | Laurent Brossoit | G | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | BC: Port Alberni | 21 |
| 39 | Bogdan Yakimov | C | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Russia: Nizhnekamsk | 19 |
| 34 | Tyler Bunz | G | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ALTA: St. Albert | 22 |
| 70 | Curtis Hamilton | L | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | WA: Tacoma | 22 |
| Darnell Nurse | D | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -2 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | ONT: Hamilton | 19 | |
| 41 | Will Acton | C | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | -2 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | MN: Edina | 27 |
| 30 32 | Richard Bachman | G | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | UT: Salt Lake City | 27 |
| 35 | Viktor Fasth | G | 26 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | Sweden: Kalix | 32 |
| Totals | 193 | 324 | 517 | 667 |
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| Goalies | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player Name | GP | Min | GA | GAA | W | L | T | Svs | Pct | EN | SO |
| Laurent Brossoit | 1 | 60 | 2 | 2.00 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 49 | 0.961 | 1 | 0 |
| Richard Bachman | 6 | 317 | 15 | 2.84 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 153 | 0.911 | 1 | 1 |
| Ben Scrivens | 57 | 3228 | 170 | 3.16 | 15 | 26 | 11 | 1372 | 0.890 | 7 | 1 |
| Viktor Fasth | 26 | 1336 | 76 | 3.41 | 6 | 15 | 3 | 605 | 0.888 | 1 | 0 |
| Tyler Bunz | 1 | 20 | 3 | 9.00 | 9 | 0.750 | 0 | 0 |
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PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Of course he's going to disagree. He was in that clique, he won't implicate himself.
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Well guess RNH was clearly part of that whole thing too....
Thanks for creating a needless distraction for the team you scrub.
PBandJ
If it didn't happen in the 80's, it didn't happen
Good on Ference for speaking up when he was asked.
He was dealt a crap hand when he came here, he deserved better.
He was dealt a crap hand when he came here, he deserved better.
KeithIsActuallyBad
You thrust your pelvis, huh!
Yeah I think I’ll take the word of a player who was an Oiler far longer than Ference.
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