Interesting insight from Andrew Ference (31 Thoughts: The Podcast)

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joestevens29

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Nothing of what he says is new.

Everyone that ever was dealt or left brought up how poor practices were. Zero intensity.

The Vets that all left also keep saying it's time for the young players to step up and take the team on their backs.

But like Horcoff, Hemsky, Petry, Bryzgalov and others, Ference wasn't exactly that great of a player and as you can see in the first reply people continued to blame those vets for not being better. Not lets blame Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Schultz, and others for not stepping up and taking the team on their backs.

This was also a club that refused to show film to players when they made mistakes. They were afraid of hurting their feelings. The team essentially treated the players like toddlers and the players acted like toddlers.
 

TheNumber4

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I know this can never be really confirmed or not because the NHL is so tight lipped and no one wants to call out individual players or throw players under the bus... but if I had to guess if Hall was a cancer type player in the lockerroom. I'd say yes. There's too many little things that come out, and too many little things he does on the ice, that when you add them all up... it points to that conclusion.
 

StevenF1919

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Nothing of what he says is new.

Everyone that ever was dealt or left brought up how poor practices were. Zero intensity.

The Vets that all left also keep saying it's time for the young players to step up and take the team on their backs.

But like Horcoff, Hemsky, Petry, Bryzgalov and others, Ference wasn't exactly that great of a player and as you can see in the first reply people continued to blame those vets for not being better. Not lets blame Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Schultz, and others for not stepping up and taking the team on their backs.

This was also a club that refused to show film to players when they made mistakes. They were afraid of hurting their feelings. The team essentially treated the players like toddlers and the players acted like toddlers.
Hall carried this team on his back. The goal differential when he was on or off the ice was absurd. Hell, even Eberle had a season here that's like the 15th highest 5v5 point total in the past 10 years.

It's also not a coincidence that all those players you listed had success after getting traded.
 

oobga

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If this org knew this kind of atmosphere existed in the group, how dumb were they to hire a total newb like Eakins to try to straighten it out? It's insane how many missteps this org has made over the years. And of course, the guys in charge then are all still here :)
 

KarmaPolice

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Here is a transcript I put together of his words. I suggest that everyone read it rather than doing the easy "He was a terrible captain and Eakins was a terrible coach" posting. Rather listen to it so you can hear it first hand and his passion and disappointment in the team.

On Lucic:
He’s got as much pride as anybody, absolutely loves being in the NHLand loves playing an important role on a team. I see the same frustrations that I had too in going Edmonton about certain aspects of going there and especially coming from a really dialled in culture. When you’ve seen a dialled in culture and team and how its operating and you go to something different it can be extremely frustrating.

Being from Edmonton and I grew up in Sherwood Park, Ive seen it a million times, there’s always a sacrificial lamb on the team that just gets roasted by the radio guys and the newspaper guys and then the fans just continue that on. I think he’s obviously taken that a bit and you always got the target on your back with the big contract and he’d been the first to admit he should be getting more points and scoring more goals, you get all that.

But its tough, its really tough play there and and to be the centre of so much negativity and I dont care who you are negativity gets to you and doesn’t usually help you at all. Its tough for him and I think that its tough for any player transitioning from a really super important role on a team to a secondary role on the ice. I think he’s still incredibly important in the room and I think thats probably, whenever Ive talked to him, its goals and assists and sometimes your play can dip and change and sometimes its luck and sometimes your just not playing so good but you can always do the stuff in the room and create that culture and lead off the ice.

You always have pretty much full control of that that shouldn’t dip and ebb and fall off the map. So I think for a guy like that thats where you have to maybe transition where your role on the ice isn’t so important but your role off the ice and in the room and as a leader, you have to magnify that yourself and really make yourself important in those ways as well.

On the game changing vis a vis Lucic:
Everythings changing yes, there’s probably not too many defensemen that still like playing against him. Him on the forecheck when he’s all rambunctious and running around, he’s not a fun player to play against. its just that when you’ve had really successful seasons, I don't know what his top line numbers are and his best years but your not hitting those same numbers you used to hit, your not getting the same playing time, your not scoring as many goals, does that mean your horrible?

No, people will automatically look at your contract and have expectations where you should be and so they should but I think its just some people might adjust their own personal expectations a little quicker than others and just accept the fact Im not going to be that 40 goal guy 22 minute a night guy so what can I do. If you dont adjust that quick enough the frustration will be never ending.

On the culture in Edmonton when he played and why doesn’t it work in Edmonton:
(Elliott asking about being the After Hours guest in Edmonton where Edmonton got pummelled that night - he says with a laugh “Surprise!”)

I don’t think it’s one thing. I think its a combination of elements that go into it. I think that aspect of feeling more scared to make a mistake and be the whipping boy rather than being bold and taking your chances and having that confidence to try a play. Some guys might get into that role of being scared to be the whipping boy. I don’t know if that makes sense (Elliott says "I have heard that theory before").

You take less risks, your urge to win and be bold is less than your urge to not be the whipping boy or stand out right? So I think that is one aspect. The quickness that radio or newspaper or fans jump and attack their own guys is horrible. I think that the quickness to defend players within the organization I remember Jeff Petry or Schultz getting raked over the coals and nobody coming to defend them and then just trading them when their value, after they’ve beaten them down for months, then trading them, its like God, its not just for those guys but its for other guys on the team and your looking at it and saying like well f… they don’t have his back, are they going to have mine when its my turn to be the whipping boy you know?

But I think the most frustrating part for me as a player when I went in there straight from Boston was talk is cheap. I went in, Dallas Eakins is a fantastic coach, there’s another whipping boy who got dragged over the coals, he’s a fantastic coach that was dealt just a pure crap hand in a team that would actually listen. You got a group of players that talked about how they wanted to make the playoffs and talked about how sick they were of losing and then by game 3 after losing 6-1 they’re straight out to the bar till 3 in the morning lighting up the night life scene in Edmonton.

Cmon give me a break. It was to the point where it was ridiculous, where the lifestyle was way more important than actually playing the game and making the playoffs but like I said talk is cheap. Even in practice, came from a group where you’re practicing against guys like Bergeron or Chara and your going at each other, game intensity and thats how you get better, thats how you be a playoff contender, thats how you be a champion and you try to instil some of those values, and we had some other guys had been on playoff teams and they had the same frustrations, they’d come and practice hard and theres a group of guys there that had, that were too cool to try hard, like derogatory terms for trying too hard in practice. Thats the culture right. So how do you break that?

Well you come in and try to disrupt. Over the years there have been attempts to disrupt whether it was Eakins or I come in there or Pronger or whoever it was. Different people come in and disrupt but I know personally it was really hard for me. You come in as an older guy but far from being one of the better players on the team so you can be a leader with experience but I am not a game changer, I am a number 4/5 defenceman. Your voice only goes so far with people that only respect how good your toe drag is and wether or not you're out partying.

So your voice doesn’t carry much weight with people that don’t put value on those aspects I was bringing from Boston or that Dallas was trying to instil in the team so was it not only frustrating but it really pissed me off because its a waste of those years in your NHL career where you never get those back and you see a coach like Dallas get really so unfairly treated. Like I said was he perfect, no and he’d be the first to admit that he would rather do some of those things different but taking the blame, what are you supposed to do with a culture like that?

Thanks for the transcription. Appreciate the effort.

Always thought the media was trash. I think most media is trash in general. Thank god I think it's mostly being phased out with new technology, being able to watch the game anywhere you go on your smartphone and not having to take some guy's opinion as gospel -- and why, because he studied journalism in college for a few years? Big f***ing deal. The opinion's of people in the media mean nothing to me, as they should for everyone. Watch for yourself, think for yourself. We're all just as smart as these "experts" (ha!) in the media. Use your own brain; formulate your own ideas; assess players knowing what you know about hockey and openly discuss it with others, as we do here. The sooner the big media goes under, which have been the driving force of pushing players under the bus, the better. Sometimes they were right, but a lot of the time they aren't, and what gives them that right and power, anyway? Again, some piece of paper given to them by a college? I think we as informed fans know a lot better than they do.

Let's not give the guys in the media the power to rail-road guys out of town any more. If you think about it for more than a few seconds you realize how utterly absurd that notion is. Listen to the guys on the radio for entertainment. Read the papers for world news if you want. The rest is just noise.
 
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TheNumber4

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Hall carried this team on his back. The goal differential when he was on or off the ice was absurd. Hell, even Eberle had a season here that's like the 15th highest 5v5 point total in the past 10 years.

It's also not a coincidence that all those players you listed had success after getting traded.

There's no denying those players had talent and were good. But did they bring much else? When Yak was struggling did they help him at all? Did they include him in the group? When the team was struggling defensively did they buckle down and show an over commitment to defense to help their defenders out and try to change the culture? When we lost a lot, did they keep an even keeled head and help lead their team out of the mess?
 

oobga

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Aug 1, 2003
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Hall carried this team on his back. The goal differential when he was on or off the ice was absurd. Hell, even Eberle had a season here that's like the 15th highest 5v5 point total in the past 10 years.

It's also not a coincidence that all those players you listed had success after getting traded.

I think the picture Ference is trying to paint is that yes, there are guys that had the talent to get the job done when they were on the ice, but they also had no interest in working with the rest of the group. 1st line guys are gonna just do their thing, you guys go figure out how to not suck when we're off the ice, and we'll sit here and laugh at you for trying you no talent bums.

Basically the kind of team environment you would expect if management is giving the keys to the team to a bunch of 20 year olds, not really valuing having any good vets being on the team, and for a bonus, toss in a rookie coach that is totally in over his head too.
 

NeverForget06

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Jan 7, 2013
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It's also not a coincidence that all those players you listed had success after getting traded.
Or is it that those organizations didn't just let them do whatever they wanted? Actually instilled a drive to win in them?
I can buy that Hall kind of wanted to win here, but I never saw it once from Ebs. Not once. Guy is soft and the farthest thing from a leader.
 

5 Mins 4 Ftg

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Exactly. It's tough to blame the players when the only constant these last 12 years has been the people who run the team.


Totally agree. I am sure the younger players were living it up but its up to management to dial that back and set expectations. That the same bozos are running the show here is beyond reproach and until they no longer have a voice in how this team is run, I am afraid this team wont ever change. Hitch is like that glass of cold water. Hopefully he is the first chink in the OBC armour.
 

StevenF1919

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There's no denying those players had talent and were good. But did they bring much else? When Yak was struggling did they help him at all? Did they include him in the group? When the team was struggling defensively did they buckle down and show an over commitment to defense to help their defenders out and try to change the culture? When we lost a lot, did they keep an even keeled head and help lead their team out of the mess?
Hall was a +24 at 5v5 when he played here. When he was off the ice the team was a -175. What more do you want him to do?

Instead of blaming the team's best players, maybe blame the management team that refused to put a half decent hockey team around them.
I think the picture Ference is trying to paint is that yes, there are guys that had the talent to get the job done when they were on the ice, but they also had no interest in working with the rest of the group. 1st line guys are gonna just do their thing, you guys go figure out how to not suck when we're off the ice, and we'll sit here and laugh at you for trying you no talent bums.

Basically the kind of team environment you would expect if management is giving the keys to the team to a bunch of 20 year olds, not really valuing having any good vets being on the team, and for a bonus, toss in a rookie coach that is totally in over his head too.
You're right with that last paragraph. It's hard enough coming into the NHL and moving to a new city as an 18 year old, I can't imagine it would be easy to develop with structure or vet support.
Or is it that those organizations didn't just let them do whatever they wanted? Actually instilled a drive to win in them?
I can buy that Hall kind of wanted to win here, but I never saw it once from Ebs. Not once. Guy is soft and the farthest thing from a leader.
I've never been a huge Eberle fan, but the guy is a great player and not everyone needs to be a leader. That doesn't mean you can't have guys like him on the team.

It's a damn shame that they could never give Hall any solid veterans to learn from. He's the type of guy that will win Conn Smythe's as a captain on a championship team.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Remember when Hall sprayed water on Eakins and we all lauded Eakins for his reaction. Maybe there was more behind Eakins frustration towards Hall besides a bit of water....

Hall didn't spray water on Eakins. he slammed the bottle and water inadvertently touched Eakins. I mean we have it on video. The only ridiculous part is Eakins offended reaction, in public, the same guy that would glare at players on the bench when he wasn't acting like a duck.

Eakins was a clown. Ference, the worst captain ever of this team, and his lacky, was obviously going to defend him and suggest others were at fault.

I mean this is Ference. Nothng to see here.

Did Ference talk about his own lack of accountability as captain or player or that he showed up to play here at 184lbs because he was too into running marathons vs being his requisite size as a physical D? Ference, due to the loss of weight and stature was incapable of boxing out forwards here. he couldn't even play. Starts with him. He was so bad the team went different ways and just stopped dressing him. Any sour grapes here?
 

KarmaPolice

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Remember when Hall sprayed water on Eakins and we all lauded Eakins for his reaction. Maybe there was more behind Eakins frustration towards Hall besides a bit of water....

Yep. Probably acting like too much of a jackass in general, or not acting mature enough as a professional (hence the water bottle slam you are alluding to). Hall even has admitted he's changed a lot of his ways since being traded. Not hard to connect the dots.

And not saying he was the entire problem or anything. I'm sure it was many guys. But you have to start somewhere if you want to change the culture of a hockey team, and getting rid of the ring leader is usually the best place to start. Just a thought.
 

Man Purse

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all we ever hear is how an NHL D needs 300 games to learn the ropes

at one point during his trial by fire, Petry and Ladi Smid were the 11th best shutdown pair in the league

Petry played 246 games for the Oilers (45th all time rank for roster players in Oil NHL history)

this organization is such CRAP that they didn't bother with a tribute video upon Jeff's return with the HABS

**that had to be because they didn't want to stir negative attention towards the idiot McTavish**
 
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TheNumber4

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Hall was a +24 at 5v5 when he played here. When he was off the ice the team was a -175. What more do you want him to do?

Instead of blaming the team's best players, maybe blame the management team that refused to put a half decent hockey team around them.

Like I said Hall's good and has talent. This is undeniable. My question is if he did much else. If he's the Number 1 guy and he's the guy that sets the example, what good is all that talent if he sets the example of not working hard in practices, not being inclusive of teammates, not focused on defence, and too much focus on a party lifestyle.

And yes, there's plenty of blame to go around for management too. That doesn't change how we assess Hall's overall contributions to the team.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

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Like I said Hall's good and has talent. This is undeniable. My question is if he did much else. If he's the Number 1 guy and he's the guy that sets the example, what good is all that talent if he sets the example of not working hard in practices, not being inclusive of teammates, not focused on defence, and too much focus on a party lifestyle.

And yes, there's plenty of blame to go around for management too. That doesn't change how we assess Hall's overall contributions to the team.
It does if you ignore it for a reality you would prefer to be true.
 

StevenF1919

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Like I said Hall's good and has talent. This is undeniable. My question is if he did much else. If he's the Number 1 guy and he's the guy that sets the example, what good is all that talent if he sets the example of not working hard in practices, not being inclusive of teammates, not focused on defence, and too much focus on a party lifestyle.

And yes, there's plenty of blame to go around for management too. That doesn't change how we assess Hall's overall contributions to the team.
You can't accuse him of not working hard. He was the only player putting in an effort out on the ice at the end of those losing seasons. His defensive play and backchecking was noticeably improved in his last two seasons here as well.

Like I said, it's sort of ridiculous to expect a 20 year old kid to set the culture in the dressing room and lead the team.
 
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KarmaPolice

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Like I said Hall's good and has talent. This is undeniable. My question is if he did much else. If he's the Number 1 guy and he's the guy that sets the example, what good is all that talent if he sets the example of not working hard in practices, not being inclusive of teammates, not focused on defence, and too much focus on a party lifestyle.

And yes, there's plenty of blame to go around for management too. That doesn't change how we assess Hall's overall contributions to the team.

Plus you don't want a divide among players. You had McDavid, who you just know gives it his all at practice and anywhere, and then (perhaps) Hall and his gang who just wanted a leisurely skate during the drills. That's catastrophic for the health of a team in every way. So obviously you keep the guy who works his ass off, day in and day out, in every context, to lead the team and set the example, and ship out the guy who thinks he's 'too cool for school.' It's conjecture, but I've heard enough of this from people that it's reasonably plausible to me.

Hell, Hall basically admitted it. Not in those words, but it's not hard to read between the lines.
 

TheNumber4

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Hall didn't spray water on Eakins. he slammed the bottle and water inadvertently touched Eakins. I mean we have it on video. The only ridiculous part is Eakins offended reaction, in public, the same guy that would glare at players on the bench when he wasn't acting like a duck.

Eakins was a clown. Ference, the worst captain ever of this team, and his lacky, was obviously going to defend him and suggest others were at fault.

I mean this is Ference. Nothng to see here.

Did Ference talk about his own lack of accountability as captain or player or that he showed up to play here at 184lbs because he was too into running marathons vs being his requisite size as a physical D? Ference, due to the loss of weight and stature was incapable of boxing out forwards here. he couldn't even play. Starts with him. He was so bad the team went different ways and just stopped dressing him. Any sour grapes here?

Yes I know. I remember it. Just didn't feel like typing out the whole scenario.

Eakins was a young coach and emotions got the better of him. I don't think he was ready to be a head coach. The League agrees as he works his way back up from the AHL. Although there's been analysts who have mentioned his name as getting another shot in the near future. I think his AHL team is doing well like they usually do.

Ference didn't have the requisite talent to be a true leader. But as person, he seemed to have some good leadership qualities and did the right things in the lockerroom. Not really his fault, management expected him to be more than the 5/6 type defenceman he always was.
 

TheNumber4

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Yep. Probably acting like too much of a jackass in general, or not acting mature enough as a professional (hence the water bottle slam you are alluding to). Hall even has admitted he's changed a lot of his ways since being traded. Not hard to connect the dots.

And not saying he was the entire problem or anything. I'm sure it was many guys. But you have to start somewhere if you want to change the culture of a hockey team, and getting rid of the ring leader is usually the best place to start. Just a thought.

Agreed. I know the Hall-Larsson swap is lauded now. But when the Oilers made noise in the playoffs in 16-17 everyone thought it was a genius move and a requirement to finally break the history setting playoff drought. The next year, Hall plays out of his mind and the Oilers miss the playoffs and the narrative gets flipped. Now the Devils are once again bottom dwelling and the Oilers are trending very similarly to 16-17. It'll be interesting to see how the narrative evolves from here.
 

TheNumber4

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It does if you ignore it for a reality you would prefer to be true.

I don't prefer that our number 1 overall pick ends up having character issues that can affect the type of leadership the lockerroom has. But if I see it, I'll call it out.
 

Drivesaitl

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Agreed. I know the Hall-Larsson swap is lauded now. But when the Oilers made noise in the playoffs in 16-17 everyone thought it was a genius move and a requirement to finally break the history setting playoff drought. The next year, Hall plays out of his mind and the Oilers miss the playoffs and the narrative gets flipped. Now the Devils are once again bottom dwelling and the Oilers are trending very similarly to 16-17. It'll be interesting to see how the narrative evolves from here.

Um, no. Several posters were consistent on what a brutal transaction it was, regardless of the result that season, which was due to Talbot.
 

Soundwave

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Agreed. I know the Hall-Larsson swap is lauded now. But when the Oilers made noise in the playoffs in 16-17 everyone thought it was a genius move and a requirement to finally break the history setting playoff drought. The next year, Hall plays out of his mind and the Oilers miss the playoffs and the narrative gets flipped. Now the Devils are once again bottom dwelling and the Oilers are trending very similarly to 16-17. It'll be interesting to see how the narrative evolves from here.

It's still a terrible trade. You can find Adam Larsson tier defenders for a lot cheaper than that and we still have a huge problem of no other line scoring other than McDavid's.
 
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