Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) XLII

[zxcvnm]

Just so I got this straight, you guys believe that Avs management will be just fine trading away BOTH RoR AND Stastny and going with 22 year old Duchene and (currently) 17 year old MacKinnon as their 1-2 punch?

A bit of a gamble don't you think? Especially if Duchene should get injured.

What's more likely is the Avs will keep one or the other and perhaps they are trying to re-sign both right now but one thing is for sure, if Stastny is set to walk, I can't imagine the Avs NOT getting anything for him and if that's going to happen, I believe they'll keep RoR around for another couple of years.

In the short run, the Avs might keep O'Reilly around as we're not financially pressured to trade him and he might be willing to be a winger and top 6 injury replacement at center. But, long-term, particularly once MacKinnon proves himself to be a 70+ point player, the Avs would be financially irresponsible to dedicate that much money to the center position at the cost of better wingers and defenseman. Unless O'Reilly is willing to stay on the wing, the Avs would be smart to find a good trade partner.

I'd love to have Duchene-MacKinnon-O'Reilly down the middle. But the salary cap and defensive needs make an O'Reilly trade likely - if not this year, then probably next.

Stastny is most likely a deadline deal. He'll return decent value but it will not address our most glaring needs on defense. O'Reilly is currently our only asset that can (I'm intentionally ignoring players we will not trade like Duchene, MacKinnon, and Landeskog).

And guys, PLEASE as has been proven countless times, over and over and over again, Adrian Dater has absolutely ZERO inside sources* to what the Avalanche are planning to do...

I posted the chat purely as a launchpad for some discussion - even if it has been rehashed time and time again. Nowhere is anyone discussing the sterling reputation of one Adrian Dater. That said, there's little to talk about anyways, so why not post what he wrote and respond to it as if he's just another HF poster?

 

[EdAVSfan]

Just so I got this straight, you guys believe that Avs management will be just fine trading away BOTH RoR AND Stastny and going with 22 year old Duchene and (currently) 17 year old MacKinnon as their 1-2 punch?

A bit of a gamble don't you think? Especially if Duchene should get injured.

What's more likely is the Avs will keep one or the other and perhaps they are trying to re-sign both right now but one thing is for sure, if Stastny is set to walk, I can't imagine the Avs NOT getting anything for him and if that's going to happen, I believe they'll keep RoR around for another couple of years.

And guys, PLEASE as has been proven countless times, over and over and over again, Adrian Dater has absolutely ZERO inside sources* to what the Avalanche are planning to do. He has an opinion, one that is more wrong than right and I'm pretty sure that the Avs see him for what he is, a bit of a buffoon who makes a living (somehow) writing about hockey but just doesn't really have the passion or the in-depth knowledge or the professionalism to be taken seriously.

(* how about those "I think the Roy as head coach ship has sailed..." comments? great insight)

Have you guys ever even tried to listen to one of those horrendous podcasts he puts out there? They are basically unlistenable. He surrounds himself with a bunch of posers who don't seem to know much about the game ("uh, what's that guy's name from Montreal -- Galch-innuk?" ) and they are always held in some club or restaurant with waitresses interupting on tape, I guess because the audio just isn't lousy enough. It's unprofessional and it's pathetic.

This might be deemed 'too mean' but in my opinion, it had to be said and it's well deserved. I'm not saying anything that isn't true. There isn't one other credible NHL media person that does this sort of ridiculous sideshow and gets away with it. There is a reason why certain NHL/Sports Media outlets call on Peter McNab and Marc Moser to get a feel for what is going on with the Avs and it has everything to do with what I just outlined above.

I agree with you for the most part that I believe Dater really just throws out there what he thinks can stick.

BUT...

Going to what he said, unfortunately, I agree with. Even if hes got no sources whatsoever, I too, would not be shocked to see both ROR and Stastny gone by the trade deadline.

If we take Stastny for instance, at this point, we have no idea what he wants. We dont know if he wants to stay an Av, if he wants a top 2 center role, or if he wants just as much or close to the same money as now. Its pretty much written on the wall for him that a top 6 center role, is all but gone. He's easily the one that I can see being moved out.

As for ROR, well the same goes for him. We dont know what his contract demands are, and we certainly dont know how he sees himself in this lineup. Regardless, its just as clear to me that Duchene, Mack are top 2 centers on this team moving forward. If, just like last time, ROR is looking for a top 6 role based on his salary demands, then he has no choice but to be a good winger. Even if you wanted to give tons of offensive zone starts to all three centers, its just not possible. Theres always going to be one guy thats forced to be the more defensive of the 3. Im just not so sure that ROR wants to be that guy.

Whether the avs want 3 of these guys, all four or just two doesnt really matter. Because Stastny and ROR are going to have to want to be here, AND, WANT what their roles are.

I can easily envision a scenario where we get to the deadline, and Mack and Duchene are the only ones standing. I can also see a scenario where the avs hold on to ROR for another year as well before they move him. But I predict, that both are gone within the next 2 seasons.

 

[Freudian]

I think you have to separate defenders would be an upgrade here (plenty) and defenders you really want here in two-three years time (much fewer).

We have glaring needs both in even strength and on the power play. Doing nothing is frustrating but avoiding stepping on mines might help us in the long run.

 

[TheStranger]

In the short run, the Avs might keep O'Reilly around as we're not financially pressured to trade him and he might be willing to be a winger and top 6 injury replacement at center. But, long-term, particularly once MacKinnon proves himself to be a 70+ point player, the Avs would be financially irresponsible to dedicate that much money to the center position at the cost of better wingers and defenseman. Unless O'Reilly is willing to stay on the wing, the Avs would be smart to find a good trade partner.

I'd love to have Duchene-MacKinnon-O'Reilly down the middle. But the salary cap and defensive needs make an O'Reilly trade likely - if not this year, then probably next.

Stastny is most likely a deadline deal. He'll return decent value but it will not address our most glaring needs on defense. O'Reilly is currently our only asset that can (I'm intentionally ignoring players we will not trade like Duchene, MacKinnon, and Landeskog).



I posted the chat purely as a launchpad for some discussion - even if it has been rehashed time and time again. Nowhere is anyone discussing the sterling reputation of one Adrian Dater. That said, there's little to talk about anyways, so why not post what he wrote and respond to it as if he's just another HF poster?

If Mackinnon isn't 70+ points this season he's a bust

 

[Bender]

In the short run, the Avs might keep O'Reilly around as we're not financially pressured to trade him and he might be willing to be a winger and top 6 injury replacement at center. But, long-term, particularly once MacKinnon proves himself to be a 70+ point player, the Avs would be financially irresponsible to dedicate that much money to the center position at the cost of better wingers and defenseman. Unless O'Reilly is willing to stay on the wing, the Avs would be smart to find a good trade partner.

I'd love to have Duchene-MacKinnon-O'Reilly down the middle. But the salary cap and defensive needs make an O'Reilly trade likely - if not this year, then probably next.

Stastny is most likely a deadline deal. He'll return decent value but it will not address our most glaring needs on defense. O'Reilly is currently our only asset that can (I'm intentionally ignoring players we will not trade like Duchene, MacKinnon, and Landeskog).

I posted the chat purely as a launchpad for some discussion - even if it has been rehashed time and time again. Nowhere is anyone discussing the sterling reputation of one Adrian Dater. That said, there's little to talk about anyways, so why not post what he wrote and respond to it as if he's just another HF poster?

Sounds like we are saying the same thing:

What's more likely is the Avs will keep one or the other and perhaps they are trying to re-sign both right now but one thing is for sure, if Stastny is set to walk, I can't imagine the Avs NOT getting anything for him and if that's going to happen, I believe they'll keep RoR around for another couple of years.​

A lot will depend on how quickly MacKinnon adjusts to the NHL. If he has a Stamkos-like first season, Avs need to tread carefully. If he's proven he can handle the load and more then yeah, they might very well trade both but what is more likely is that the Avs hang on to one of Stastny OR RoR for the next 2-3 years if only because MacKinnon is still very young.

As for the last part, historically, some perhaps less experienced posters will take what dater says as gospel, start freaking out and then start offering RoR and/or Staz to every team in the league. That, in turn, will make other fan bases believe that we want to get rid of both as fast as possible. It makes reading about possible Avs trades on the trade forum less fun seeing my fellow Avs fans unnecessarily trying to reason with the likes of double dion, petes2424 and seanlinden.

 

[cgf]

Keeping all of our forwards together for the next 4-5 years won't cost much more than 40 million, with a rising cap it's totally feasible to do that while improving our d and retaining Varly.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Keeping all of our forwards together for the next 4-5 years won't cost much more than 40 million, with a rising cap it's totally feasible to do that while improving our d and retaining Varly.

The most important thing is that do we have enough cap space in 4-5 years for Bozak and Clarkson that Leafs fans are going to push for at trade forum?

 

[A Shiny Zubat]

Just so I got this straight, you guys believe that Avs management will be just fine trading away BOTH RoR AND Stastny and going with 22 year old Duchene and (currently) 17 year old MacKinnon as their 1-2 punch?

A bit of a gamble don't you think? Especially if Duchene should get injured.

What's more likely is the Avs will keep one or the other and perhaps they are trying to re-sign both right now but one thing is for sure, if Stastny is set to walk, I can't imagine the Avs NOT getting anything for him and if that's going to happen, I believe they'll keep RoR around for another couple of years.

And guys, PLEASE as has been proven countless times, over and over and over again, Adrian Dater has absolutely ZERO inside sources* to what the Avalanche are planning to do. He has an opinion, one that is more wrong than right and I'm pretty sure that the Avs see him for what he is, a bit of a buffoon who makes a living (somehow) writing about hockey but just doesn't really have the passion or the in-depth knowledge or the professionalism to be taken seriously.

(* how about those "I think the Roy as head coach ship has sailed..." comments? great insight)

Have you guys ever even tried to listen to one of those horrendous podcasts he puts out there? They are basically unlistenable. He surrounds himself with a bunch of posers who don't seem to know much about the game ("uh, what's that guy's name from Montreal -- Galch-innuk?" ) and they are always held in some club or restaurant with waitresses interupting on tape, I guess because the audio just isn't lousy enough. It's unprofessional and it's pathetic.

This might be deemed 'too mean' but in my opinion, it had to be said and it's well deserved. I'm not saying anything that isn't true. There isn't one other credible NHL media person that does this sort of ridiculous sideshow and gets away with it. There is a reason why certain NHL/Sports Media outlets call on Peter McNab and Marc Moser to get a feel for what is going on with the Avs and it has everything to do with what I just outlined above.

I really want to agree with you on Dater being useless and having zero credibility, but:

Begs to differ.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I really want to agree with you on Dater being useless and having zero credibility, but:

Begs to differ.

He probably meant 04-05 lockout.

 

[tigervixxxen]

How exactly are the Avs going to keep ROR for a couple more years? Just keep giving him qualifying offers and going to arbitration? How likely is it ROR will sign a long term deal? I'm a bit skeptical on that. Maybe he would but it would have to be significant $. As an above poster said both ROR and Stastny have to WANT to be here first of all, then they both have to be satisfied with the $$$ offered, that's a lot of assuming there.

 

[bohlmeister]

I really want to agree with you on Dater being useless and having zero credibility, but:
Begs to differ.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I really want to agree with you on Dater being useless and having zero credibility, but:

Begs to differ.

he prolly walked into the room and everyone thought he was the coffee guy.

 

[chet1926]

I really want to agree with you on Dater being useless and having zero credibility, but:

Begs to differ.

Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every once in awhile. Face it Dater is a tool who just randomly makes guesses. Sometimes he gets lucky, most of the time he is completely wrong. And 99% of the time he is the last person to break Avs related news, he always claims that he was in a dead spot or on a plane or something.

 

[zoomzoom]

gary lawless ‏@garylawless 3m
Terms for Wheeler are six years and 33.6 million for Blake Wheeler #nhljet #bn

https://twitter.com/garylawless/stat...41645014892545

 

[Bender]

I really want to agree with you on Dater being useless and having zero credibility, but:

Begs to differ.

lol so someone involved in the negotiations process threw him a bone, big deal...they must have felt sorry for him. Besides, I said he didn't have any Avs inside info and he doesn't.

Should I claim to be an Avs insider since I called the Raycroft & Tucker signings and persisted for over 2 years that Roy would be our next head coach despite all information pointing otherwise? The answer to that is no. It's an OPINION. The difference between my opinion, everyone else's opinion on this forum and dater's opinion is that we aren't trying to make people believe that we have inside sources when over the course of the last 15 years, it's been proven otherwise.

 

[quesosauce]

He probably meant 04-05 lockout.

nice!

 

[Bonzai12]

Dater is the best hockey writer in Sedalia Colorado

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Dater is the best hockey writer in Sedalia Colorado

Even that is debatable.

 

[ABasin]

He probably meant 04-05 lockout.

LOL. Well done, sir.

 

[AnimalMother73]

Cody Franson

Toronto may not be able to afford him. Worth trading for? If so what would you give up?

 

[chet1926]

Toronto may not be able to afford him. Worth trading for? If so what would you give up?

I probably wouldn't give up much, as he really isn't the type of dman we need. Maybe a 3rd and a 2nd tier prospect. He is probably worth more it just doesn't seem like a fit for the Avs as he is an offensive dman and we already have Barrie, Benoit and Elliott as offensive dmen. Plus it sounds like he wants a big contract, which is insane for a 3rd pairing caliber guy with some offensive abilities.

Although on a side note, I do find it hilarious that the Clarkson and Bozak contracts are already handcuffing the Leafs.

 

[agentblack]

I probably wouldn't give up much, as he really isn't the type of dman we need. Maybe a 3rd and a 2nd tier prospect. He is probably worth more it just doesn't seem like a fit for the Avs as he is an offensive dman and we already have Barrie, Benoit and Elliott as offensive dmen. Plus it sounds like he wants a big contract, which is insane for a 3rd pairing caliber guy with some offensive abilities.

Although on a side note, I do find it hilarious that the Clarkson and Bozak contracts are already handcuffing the Leafs.

I think he's better than that.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Nothing, we don't need him.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I have never been really high on Franson.. at least after the D-factory named Nashville let him go so cheap.

His off. production has seemed to be decent, but not really sold on his D as top 4 player. As RH D, I'm not sure where he would fit. Cost could also be fairly high.

 

[The Kingslayer]

No to franson. To many righties as it is