Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXXIV

[UncleRisto]

I don't know. Carle has a big contract and he's been pretty bad in Tampa.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

So just throwing it out there, but Tampa might have to move a defenseman this summer to make some space. Matt Carle is the name getting thrown around, because of his high cap hit. Does anyone think the Avs would show interest, if they could send something like Nick Holden's contract back the other way?

I like Carle. Liked him when he was with Philly and was in favor of us signing him, but at nowhere near the cap hit Tampa signed him to. That's just a very bad contract. If they took a clown like Holden back AND they retained a bit of salary, now we're talking. Carle would still help us out on the PP and can move the puck very well from the back-end. We could do a lot worse with an EJ Partner in free agency or via trade than we would by bringing in Carle(if we strike out on other options). Not a bad suggestion, TMV.

 

[Avsboy]

Hmm yeah $5.5 million....not as interested.

 

[henchman21]

So just throwing it out there, but Tampa might have to move a defenseman this summer to make some space. Matt Carle is the name getting thrown around, because of his high cap hit. Does anyone think the Avs would show interest, if they could send something like Nick Holden's contract back the other way?

I would... He isn't ideal, but a Holden + swap for Carle wouldn't be bad. Gain ~4m in salary, get a below average middle pairing puck mover. Coburn might be the other one to move... he hasn't worked out like expected down there.

 

[Avs_19]

So just throwing it out there, but Tampa might have to move a defenseman this summer to make some space. Matt Carle is the name getting thrown around, because of his high cap hit. Does anyone think the Avs would show interest, if they could send something like Nick Holden's contract back the other way?

I think that's one to stay away from because of his contract. He's inconsistent and has issues in the defensive zone.

Avs would be dumping a contract though so you could look at it as Carle having a lower cap hit than $5.5M because of that. Still don't know if he'd be worth it.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I don't know. Carle has a big contract and he's been pretty bad in Tampa.

Hmm yeah $5.5 million....not as interested.

It's a risk, for sure. Carle has a NTC, and since he went to DU, I'm pretty sure he'd accept a trade here, and that may be one of the few places he does accept a trade too. Holden's contract is the same length as the rest of Carle's contract, so while Carle's contract is 5.5M, you get rid of Holden at 1.65M, so it makes it look a little better.

Just a thought. I'm not sure I'd do it either, but was just throwing it out there.

 

[Freaky Styley]

So just throwing it out there, but Tampa might have to move a defenseman this summer to make some space. Matt Carle is the name getting thrown around, because of his high cap hit. Does anyone think the Avs would show interest, if they could send something like Nick Holden's contract back the other way?

Yuck, no interest in Carle whatsoever. Wasn't interested when he was UFA. Makes too many turnovers and defensive mistakes to warrant that contract, especially if we already have concerns about the cap.

 

[RockLobster]

So just throwing it out there, but Tampa might have to move a defenseman this summer to make some space. Matt Carle is the name getting thrown around, because of his high cap hit. Does anyone think the Avs would show interest, if they could send something like Nick Holden's contract back the other way?

Retain some salary and take Guenin too!!!

 

[henchman21]

People seem to be looking at the cap part wrong. Carle's cap hit is 5.5. We all know he really isn't worth that... but if you can dump one of the bad contracts on the backend, then it is almost the same as Tampa retaining salary on Carle (which they might be game for as well). Swap out Holden and you only have a 3.85m increase on cap hit (not doing any better on the UFA market for that money). Send Stuart there and it is only a 1.9m increase. If you could send one of those contracts out in the deal or get $1m retained... you make a deal for Carle.

 

[Avsboy]

People seem to be looking at the cap part wrong. Carle's cap hit is 5.5. We all know he really isn't worth that... but if you can dump one of the bad contracts on the backend, then it is almost the same as Tampa retaining salary on Carle (which they might be game for as well). Swap out Holden and you only have a 3.85m increase on cap hit (not doing any better on the UFA market for that money). Send Stuart there and it is only a 1.9m increase. If you could send one of those contracts out in the deal or get $1m retained... you make a deal for Carle.

I'm not sure I would look at it that way (I'm playing devil's advocate). Carle at $5.5 million replacing Holden would fill up the same roster spot as Holden out of 23 players, while Carle having salary retained and keeping Holden takes up two roster spots. So you still need a depth defensemen if you trade Holden, and that takes up cap space. Also, it would upset the cap structure by having a mediocre D at $5.5 million.

 

[Freaky Styley]

People seem to be looking at the cap part wrong. Carle's cap hit is 5.5. We all know he really isn't worth that... but if you can dump one of the bad contracts on the backend, then it is almost the same as Tampa retaining salary on Carle (which they might be game for as well). Swap out Holden and you only have a 3.85m increase on cap hit (not doing any better on the UFA market for that money). Send Stuart there and it is only a 1.9m increase. If you could send one of those contracts out in the deal or get $1m retained... you make a deal for Carle.

The way I see it, Carle is not a top pairing defenseman and he's not going to play with Barrie, which leaves him on the bottom pair. Which is pretty much where he should be, and he's not such a significant upgrade on Holden to justify paying him 3.85M extra to play him in the same position. I like Holden more actually, as long as he is sheltered. I like Redmond to an extent too, but only as a 7th D with someone trustworthy beside him when he's playing, which we currently don't really have on the left side. Redmond and Holden are sort of the same though, we should only have 1 of them. Guenin & Berra are the 2 contracts we need to get rid of if possible. If we found a way to shed 3 of those contracts this offseason would be win just for that.

 

[hockeyfish]

Think I'd rather just have Holden.

 

[dahrougem2]

If we were ever trading for Matt Carle I'd only make the deal if both Holden AND Guenin were shipped to Tampa. If we're taking back Carle's contract, they can have two plugs who make 2.45 million combined

 

[Avs_19]

What's a likely free agent contract for Paul Martin? Someone goes insane like teams usually do on July 1st and offers him a bizarre long-term deal or will we see 2-3 years with a $5-6M cap hit?

 

[landy92mack29]

Not interested in Carle unless he gets bought out or retained 50%

 

[henchman21]

I'm not sure I would look at it that way (I'm playing devil's advocate). Carle at $5.5 million replacing Holden would fill up the same roster spot as Holden out of 23 players, while Carle having salary retained and keeping Holden takes up two roster spots. So you still need a depth defensemen if you trade Holden, and that takes up cap space. Also, it would upset the cap structure by having a mediocre D at $5.5 million.

Okay okay... let me explain further... I condensed 2 situations into a simpler explanation. I probably shouldn't have done that.

You are not getting a better defensemen for 4.5m over 3 years in the UFA market. Oduya will likely command more than that amount for 5 years. Carle isn't great, but he is still a top 4 puck mover who can be good on the PP. That helps solve two issues with the Avs. It doesn't solve them fully, but it does help. It is like getting a cheaper UFA that isn't going to hurt the team in 4-5 years.

Sending Holden or Stuart out sends out a contract that potentially is an issue in 16-17. It is essentially dumping one of those contracts to get a discount on getting Carle. Effectively only increasing the cap it by the 3.85 and 1.9m over them. Kills two birds with one stone. It adds the same player who can be in the top 4 and help the PP while getting rid of a contract that is detrimental. Now, the Avs don't have to backfill the defensive spot. They can easily roll with 7 defensmen instead of 8 or 22 players instead of 23, they have done it with injuries many times over the past two seasons. But if they did, that player is likely making less than a million and the Avs still are saving money compared having Holden or Stuart on the roster. Not as much, but still some. It would be more like having Carle at a ~4.7/2.7 salary (cut the difference between Holden/Stuart and Bigras/Siemens), but over 3 years... that is also a pretty good situation and it clears a bottom pairing spot out for a kid to slide in.

Ideally you get $1m retained AND get rid of a bad contract, but the Avs would probably have to give something pretty decent to get that deal through.

What's a likely free agent contract for Paul Martin? Someone goes insane like teams usually do on July 1st and offers him a bizarre long-term deal or will we see 2-3 years with a $5-6M cap hit?

5x5 is probably a good expectation.

The way I see it, Carle is not a top pairing defenseman and he's not going to play with Barrie, which leaves him on the bottom pair. Which is pretty much where he should be, and he's not such a significant upgrade on Holden to justify paying him 3.85M extra to play him in the same position. I like Holden more actually, as long as he is sheltered. I like Redmond to an extent too, but only as a 7th D with someone trustworthy beside him when he's playing, which we currently don't really have on the left side. Redmond and Holden are sort of the same though, we should only have 1 of them. Guenin & Berra are the 2 contracts we need to get rid of if possible. If we found a way to shed 3 of those contracts this offseason would be win just for that.

None of the UFA options are top pairing either... and you'd have to pay them more for longer. You can debate Sekera, but I think he is a 2/3 sort or a high end 3... also he is going to get 6.5m+.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

The way I see it, Carle is not a top pairing defenseman and he's not going to play with Barrie, which leaves him on the bottom pair. Which is pretty much where he should be, and he's not such a significant upgrade on Holden to justify paying him 3.85M extra to play him in the same position.

Exactly what I was thinking after reading some of these posts. 'below average middle pair puck mover', 'inconsistent, issues in Dzone', 'too many mistakes'.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I know we are just speculating (like we do every day) but I have absolutely zero belief that they want to move Stuart or Holden.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

If we were ever trading for Matt Carle I'd only make the deal if both Holden AND Guenin were shipped to Tampa. If we're taking back Carle's contract, they can have two plugs who make 2.45 million combined

Guenin can be buried in the AHL for nothing. No need to trade him to save money.

 

[Avsboy]

I know we are just speculating (like we do every day) but I have absolutely zero belief that they want to move Stuart or Holden.

It's true. Roy goes out of his way to praise them. I remember on the weekly radio show Roy was practically offended Holden wasn't mentioned as a puck mover. And with Stuart the praise got to delusional levels. If we make the playoffs next season, the better teams will just pick that bottom pairing apart.

 

[Avs_19]

5x5 is probably a good expectation.

That's the insane and bizarre route I mentioned. I like him but wouldn't do it.

 

[henchman21]

I know we are just speculating (like we do every day) but I have absolutely zero belief that they want to move Stuart or Holden.

I would tend to agree with that, but in this hypothetical world where a team still in the playoffs is selling off a puck mover who can still hack top 4 minutes for cheap... they are fair game.

It's true. Roy goes out of his way to praise them. I remember on the weekly radio show Roy was practically offended Holden wasn't mentioned as a puck mover. And with Stuart the praise got to delusional levels. If we make the playoffs next season, the better teams will just pick that bottom pairing apart.

Seems to have worked pretty well for Chicago.

Yes I understand their top 4 is probably the best in the NHL

 

[Avsboy]

Call me crazy but I would pick Stuart and Holden over Cumiskey, Rundblad, and Timmonen at his age. At least Holden and Stuart can handle abuse.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

He isn't getting top4 minutes now that they are in the playoffs. His minutes have dropped a lot.

 

[hockeyfish]

It's true. Roy goes out of his way to praise them. I remember on the weekly radio show Roy was practically offended Holden wasn't mentioned as a puck mover. And with Stuart the praise got to delusional levels. If we make the playoffs next season, the better teams will just pick that bottom pairing apart.

Have you seen Chicago's bottom pairing?