Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXXIV

[henchman21]

I just wish that we could sign ROR to a Bergeron deal. 8 years 52m seems perfect... ROR won't accept that deal though.

 

[Ice Crusher]

Bergeron has had the opportunity to shine on big stages and has always responded in a remarkable fashion. O'Reilly never got those WJC chances or anything. They are similar players, Bergeron is the better skater and has better hands, but O'Reilly can easily flourish into that type of player. Nobody can look at Ryan O'Reilly play and deny he will end up with some Selkes and Cups when his career is over, he just provides too many winning characteristics to not amount into a clutch player.

If he would have said that O'Reilly is just a younger version of Bergeron, it could have passed probably. I have no doubt that O'Reilly will get in the same level of Bergeron. He's not there yet but just give it time. It's actually amazing what he's doing at age 23. People don't seem to realize that he is that young and that smart defensively.

 

[Freudian]

Bergeron has had the opportunity to shine on big stages and has always responded in a remarkable fashion. O'Reilly never got those WJC chances or anything. They are similar players, Bergeron is the better skater and has better hands, but O'Reilly can easily flourish into that type of player. Nobody can look at Ryan O'Reilly play and deny he will end up with some Selkes and Cups when his career is over, he just provides too many winning characteristics to not amount into a clutch player.

I don't think he'll ever win a Selke. There are too many forwards with better defensive game that also bring more offense. When Bergeron, Toews, Kopitar and so on are 35 they'll be a new crop of players that are better defensive players than O'Reilly.

As for winning cups, if he doesn't change his pricing model it's hard seeing any competitor being able to fit him in when he becomes a free agent and he's not good enough to be the man on any contender. Of course it's possible he'll give a discount to play on the a contender as a final one finger salute to the Avs. Who knows?

He's a good player, but lets not get carried away here.

 

[hughdreamz]

I just wish that we could sign ROR to a Bergeron deal. 8 years 52m seems perfect... ROR won't accept that deal though.

ROR is no Bergeron too.

 

[agentblack]

A Bergeron type deal should be perfect for ROR and yet still seems a bit much for what he does. He's a great defensive center. But he doesnt create enough offense on his own to justify a similar type of deal. Bergeron does to me and he is better on faceoffs.

Meh let him be another teams issue, use the money elsewhere

 

[EdAVSfan]

At this point, even if you could get ROR to sign in the 7M range, I dont think its the right decision going forward.

Between Duchene, Mack, Landy, Varly, EJ and ROR?, in just 2 years time, you could be looking at 35-40M for 6 players.

That leaves you with an average of 2M and change or so for the remaining 15-17 players.

We'd be so top heavy with close to no depth. And im not even including Barrie.

Essentially, we'd have close to no money to improve the defense.

The avs are currently spending, a pitiful, 18M on their defense.

Money needs to be moved from the forwards to the defense. It has to be done. And increases on Barrie and EJ, isnt what I mean about money being moved. We need to add another significant salary to our defense with the addition of a quality defender, and its likely, going to need to come at the expense of ROR.

 

[avsfan09]

He's not really on Bergeron's level yet. Bergeron has two 70 point seasons, two 30 goal seasons, two Selke trophies, a Stanley Cup, and an Olympic Gold medal. O'Reilly has none of those, but they are very similar players.

I'm not saying he's on the same level but those 70 point seasons were in higher scoring years and I wouldn't give an individual credit for a Stanley cups that's a team thing which Ror hasn't been fortunate enough to play on a team as talented.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I'm not saying he's on the same level but those 70 point seasons were in higher scoring years and I wouldn't give an individual credit for a Stanley cups that's a team thing which Ror hasn't been fortunate enough to play on a team as talented.

Yeah, I don't understand why people always bring up cups won by player as an PERSONAL achievement. I mean sure, If he has won conn smythe and produced well in playoffs, I guess he deserves a lot of credit for the win, but it's still team game and ROR has never had team capable of winning the stanley cup, so is it really his fault? Bergeron has been part of great Boston team last 10 years. That helps his case a lot.

 

[Freudian]

Yeah, I don't understand why people always bring up cups won by player as an PERSONAL achievement. I mean sure, If he has won conn smythe and produced well in playoffs, I guess he deserves a lot of credit for the win, but it's still team game and ROR has never had team capable of winning the stanley cup, so is it really his fault? Bergeron has been part of great Boston team last 10 years. That helps his case a lot.

Boston traded Thornton because they decided to build a team around Bergeron and later Chara. Them winning a cup and making the finals surely says something about Bergeron. He just didn't happen to be on a cup winner. He helped create one.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Boston traded Thornton because they decided to build a team around Bergeron and later Chara. Them winning a cup and making the finals surely says something about Bergeron. He just didn't happen to be on a cup winner. He helped create one.

Which was terrible decision by Bruins. Who knows how many cups they would have by now, If they had Bergeron and Thornton playing for them.

 

[bohlmeister]

Yeah, Boston replaced Thornton with Savard. They would have been much better off with Thornton.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

At this point, even if you could get ROR to sign in the 7M range, I dont think its the right decision going forward.

Between Duchene, Mack, Landy, Varly, EJ and ROR?, in just 2 years time, you could be looking at 35-40M for 6 players.

That leaves you with an average of 2M and change or so for the remaining 15-17 players.

We'd be so top heavy with close to no depth. And im not even including Barrie.

Essentially, we'd have close to no money to improve the defense.

The avs are currently spending, a pitiful, 18M on their defense.

Money needs to be moved from the forwards to the defense. It has to be done. And increases on Barrie and EJ, isnt what I mean about money being moved. We need to add another significant salary to our defense with the addition of a quality defender, and its likely, going to need to come at the expense of ROR.

We can keep RoR and still add a top pair Dman. The cap would be very tight, but it's doable.

Keep in mind that of those 15-17, about 10 will average only a million. So if there is 2m average for the final 15 that's 30mil total. Those 10 take up just 10 mil, leaving another 20 for just 5-7 players.

 

[Freudian]

Yeah, Boston replaced Thornton with Savard. They would have been much better off with Thornton.

Thornton is such a dominating personality, it wasn't possible. The reason he was traded is because Bergeron and Chara has championship habits and they didn't think Thornton had.

Boston knew how skilled Thornton is. Just like they know how skilled Kessel/Seguin are. They have their view of how a team is built and they've gone all in.

Now they of course may have gone too far and the team is so depleted on skill that they don't have a chance of winning.

 

[henchman21]

We can keep RoR and still add a top pair Dman. The cap would be very tight, but it's doable.

Keep in mind that of those 15-17, about 10 will average only a million. So if there is 2m average for the final 15 that's 30mil total. Those 10 take up just 10 mil, leaving another 20 for just 5-7 players.

That is how the Penguins have built their team... it gets ugly with the lack of depth.

The only ways you can keep ROR and add a top pairing defensemen is if you develop a top pairing player quickly... or you make a trade for a cost controlled top pairing defender (which would probably cost one of the core or ROR).

The cap in 16-17 is probably only going to be around 73-74m and the Avs would be looking at this:

ROR (7.0) - Duchene (6.0) - Iginla (5.33)
Landy (5.571) - MacK (7.0) - _______
________-Mitchell (1.8) -_______
McLeod (1.33) -______-______
______

______-EJ (7.0)
______-Barrie (5.0) he will get at least that if he continues to pile up points
Holden (1.65) - Stuart (3.6)
______
______

Varly (5.9)
_______

That is ~57.2m tied up. Leaving about ~17m for 11 spots including 2 top 4 defensemen and a top 6 winger. Take away 6m for a top pairing defender and 4.5m for a top 6 winger (both will cost more in UFA) and you only have 6.5m to get a top 4 defender, 2 3rd liners, 3 4th liners, and 2 5-7 defensmen. That really can't happen. Now if you get a cost controlled top pairing defender... for argument's sake JMFJ, you suddenly have $8m to spend on those final players and it becomes a tad more realistic (still unlikely).

 

[dahrougem2]

Thornton is such a dominating personality, it wasn't possible. The reason he was traded is because Bergeron and Chara has championship habits and they didn't think Thornton had.

Boston knew how skilled Thornton is. Just like they know how skilled Kessel/Seguin are. They have their view of how a team is built and they've gone all in.

Now they of course may have gone too far and the team is so depleted on skill that they don't have a chance of winning.

Eh, I disagree on Thornton. Dominating personality? Yes, but he's a team guy. Gets too much flak from fans around the league for playoff failures when he's performed very well throughout his career

 

[dahrougem2]

That is how the Penguins have built their team... it gets ugly with the lack of depth.

The only ways you can keep ROR and add a top pairing defensemen is if you develop a top pairing player quickly... or you make a trade for a cost controlled top pairing defender (which would probably cost one of the core or ROR).

The cap in 16-17 is probably only going to be around 73-74m and the Avs would be looking at this:

ROR (7.0) - Duchene (6.0) - Iginla (5.33)
Landy (5.571) - MacK (7.0) - _______
________-Mitchell (1.8) -_______
McLeod (1.33) -______-______
______

______-EJ (7.0)
______-Barrie (5.0) he will get at least that if he continues to pile up points
Holden (1.65) - Stuart (3.6)
______
______

Varly (5.9)
_______

That is ~57.2m tied up. Leaving about ~17m for 11 spots including 2 top 4 defensemen and a top 6 winger. Take away 6m for a top pairing defender and 4.5m for a top 6 winger (both will cost more in UFA) and you only have 6.5m to get a top 4 defender, 2 3rd liners, 3 4th liners, and 2 5-7 defensmen. That really can't happen. Now if you get a cost controlled top pairing defender... for argument's sake JMFJ, you suddenly have $8m to spend on those final players and it becomes a tad more realistic (still unlikely).

It could be doable though. In 2016-2017, I'd argue that Everberg, Rendulic, Bigras, and Bleackley combined would cost $4M/Season as Everberg and Rendulic would be 3rd line wingers, Bleackley 2nd line RW and Bigras 2nd Pair LD. So that would leave ~14M for 7 spots. Not saying I want to have zero cap space but it could arguably be done

 

[bohlmeister]

Eh, I disagree on Thornton. Dominating personality? Yes, but he's a team guy. Gets too much flak from fans around the league for playoff failures when he's performed very well throughout his career

Yeah I agree. Thornton has turned into a good 2 way player. No reason he couldn't have done it in Boston. And maybe Chara motivates Thornton to be a better player.

 

[henchman21]

It could be doable though. In 2016-2017, I'd argue that Everberg, Rendulic, Bigras, and Bleackley combined would cost $4M/Season as Everberg and Rendulic would be 3rd line wingers, Bleackley 2nd line RW and Bigras 2nd Pair LD. So that would leave ~14M for 7 spots. Not saying I want to have zero cap space but it could arguably be done

Yeah technically you could (it would require the kids to be in the NHL), but like I said, it would be similar to the Penguins.

The backup goalie spot is going to cost about 1.5m. Either that is going to be Berra at just under that, Pickard at that number, or Pickard + Berra's buried contract at that number or above.

 

[bohlmeister]

Also, don't want anything to do with ROR @ 7 million a season. Anything longer than 4 years and that has albatross written all over it. Just get him out of here.

 

[Bender]

The following came after a fed-up Joe Sakic called up Dave Nonis and yelled through the phone : “GARDINER SUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!†and then hung up.


Chris Nichols ‏@NicholsOnHockey 17h17 hours ago
(NEW) Dreger: “I don’t believe the Toronto Maple #Leafs are strongly going after Ryan O’Reilly." #Avs http://www.nicholsonhockey.com/wort...e-leafs-are-strongly-going-after-ryan-oreilly …

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

That is how the Penguins have built their team... it gets ugly with the lack of depth.

The only ways you can keep ROR and add a top pairing defensemen is if you develop a top pairing player quickly... or you make a trade for a cost controlled top pairing defender (which would probably cost one of the core or ROR).

The cap in 16-17 is probably only going to be around 73-74m and the Avs would be looking at this:

ROR (7.0) - Duchene (6.0) - Iginla (5.33)
Landy (5.571) - MacK (7.0) - _______
________-Mitchell (1.8) -_______
McLeod (1.33) -______-______
______

______-EJ (7.0)
______-Barrie (5.0) he will get at least that if he continues to pile up points
Holden (1.65) - Stuart (3.6)
______
______

Varly (5.9)
_______

That is ~57.2m tied up. Leaving about ~17m for 11 spots including 2 top 4 defensemen and a top 6 winger. Take away 6m for a top pairing defender and 4.5m for a top 6 winger (both will cost more in UFA) and you only have 6.5m to get a top 4 defender, 2 3rd liners, 3 4th liners, and 2 5-7 defensmen. That really can't happen. Now if you get a cost controlled top pairing defender... for argument's sake JMFJ, you suddenly have $8m to spend on those final players and it becomes a tad more realistic (still unlikely).

That looks scary, and remarkably unbalanced. I don't think I'd want ROR at 7M. I'm pretty sure MacKinnon isn't getting 7M on his next contract though.

Although I'm not convinced the Avs will want Barrie at anything close to that number unless he significantly improves his overall game. He may be racking up points, but he looks awful compared to the last 2/3 of last season. If it comes to that, I see him being dealt, personally.

The GDT is full of Landy complaints (some warranted, many not), but my god, that contract may save this team in the future. It's a steal.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't think MacKinnon is getting an extension this summer and I wouldn't be shocked if he even had a bridge deal.

With the cap expected to only go up ~2M at what point does the "cap is going to explode" rationale stop working on some of these long term deals?

 

[Freudian]

I could see Avs preferring a two year $4M-4.5M/year contract for MacKinnon unless he has a great season next year. It makes more sense for the team to have MacKinnon on a more affordable deal during the Iginla/Stuart/Tanguay window and it's really hard to put a price on MacKinnon with how he plays.

 

[henchman21]

That looks scary, and remarkably unbalanced. I don't think I'd want ROR at 7M. I'm pretty sure MacKinnon isn't getting 7M on his next contract though.

Although I'm not convinced the Avs will want Barrie at anything close to that number unless he significantly improves his overall game. He may be racking up points, but he looks awful compared to the last 2/3 of last season. If it comes to that, I see him being dealt, personally.

The GDT is full of Landy complaints (some warranted, many not), but my god, that contract may save this team in the future. It's a steal.

I don't think I would want ROR at that number either. 6.5m is probably the absolute max, and that doesn't really change this outlook as it is still an utter mess.

I think MacK's next contract depends on 2 things... if he is willing to sign long-term this offseason (doubt it) and how he performs next season if he doesn't sign. If he goes the latter route and hits 70-75 points (easily possible), either him or EJ will be the highest paid player on the team.

With Barrie... that will be the cost to keep him, probably a minimum dollar amount as well. I could see them shipping him out if they are confident in their depth, but if they have to keep him, it will cost that.

Landy's contract is probably the best on the team. A bargain for what he brings. If he went the ROR route, I could easily see Landy getting paid every cent that ROR does if not a half million or so more.

 

[chet1926]

Can people please stop comparing ROR to Bergeron they aren't even in the same league. ROR should not be paid anything remotely close to what Bergeron is making.

Bergeron is probably the standard when it come to defensive centers in the league. He has won a Stanley Cup, 2 Olympic gold medals and 2 Selkes. Not to mention 2 70+ pts seasons, 2 60 pts + seasons, is a career +119, is face off wizard (58.9% this year) etc.

ROR on the other hand has a Lady Byng trophy...and 1 60+ pts year, he is a career minus player albeit he has been on some pretty bad teams so not all his fault, and his face off numbers are pretty putrid 49.6%, he does lead the league in takeaways this year so he's got that going for him.

In no way am I saying ROR is a bad player he's not, but he is a few notches below a player like Bergeron. So while they may play a similar style of game, Bergeron does everything ROR does at a much higher level.

ROR should make about 6M per year based on his statistics. He has a fairly fair contract right now and unless he takes it up a notch someone is going to overpay drastically for this player because you know someone (looking at the Maple Leafs right now) will pay 7.5M plus for him on the open market.