In Need of New Ownership

[mattyace9]

As much change that has happened over time, the only thing that hasn't changed is primary ownership. Just from what we've seen as of late, and I point the finger at Chicago primarily, is that a change of ownership even to an heir can drastically make an impact. It took an entire generation for the Blackhawks to win a Stanley Cup again, but that came from a drastic overhaul at the hands of Rocky Writz after his father died from cancer. It took 3 seasons for the Blackhawks to become a league powerhouse after ownership changes hands.

It was brought to my attention that although I have an intense passion for the Hurricanes and witnessed them win a Stanley Cup in person, they won in an anomaly season and showed only one glimpse of optimism since. Peter Karmanos bashed Peter Laviolette after firing him, saying that the Cup win was a fluke and Laviolette was lucky. In the meantime, Lavi has been in the playoffs now with four different teams. Although Laviolette is reportedly a pain in the ass to deal with, it shows that Karmanos allows emotions to make his decisions and not reason.

Karmanos has sons, but unlike Wirtz, would rather sell the team to a stranger than leave it as a legacy to family. In fact, he fired his son who was VP and Assistant GM of the 'Canes and then rehired by the "go sell some ice cream guy" in Pittsburgh.

So my question is do you think Peter Karmanos Jr. is the root of the problem?

Click to read more...

 

[Identity404]

No, Karmanos is probably about as hands off in hockey operations of an owner you can get. He also also shown a willingness to open up the purse strings when the time is right.

The failures of this franchise rely mainly on Jim Rutherford IMO.

I guess you could argue that Karmanos is of the good ol' boy club and kept his buddy JR around too long and thus put the blame on him.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

And I'd say the Blackhawks turn around (on the ice) had less to do with Writz passing and more to do with drafting Toews and Kane.

Off the ice? Absolutely the new ownership made a difference.

 

[mattyace9]

No, Karmanos is probably about as hands off in hockey operations of an owner you can get. He also also shown a willingness to open up the purse strings when the time is right.

The failures of this franchise rely mainly on Jim Rutherford IMO.

I guess you could argue that Karmanos is of the good ol' boy club and kept his buddy JR around too long and thus put the blame on him.

When have you seen him open the purse strings when the time is right?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

When have you seen him open the purse strings when the time is right?

they spent to the cap in 09-10 and 13-14.

unfortunately JR blew the money on garbage. 09-10 was especially hilarious...such an absurd amount of money spent on brind'amour, walker, samsonov, gritty vet awardo, larose, etc.

they were also well above the cap floor this season. $10m or so IIRC. that's not being cheap. what owner, exactly, is going to spend more than that in a market like this?

 

[mattyace9]

they spent to the cap in 09-10 and 13-14

unfortunately JR blew the money on garbage. 09-10 was especially hilarious...such an absurd amount of money spent on brind'amour, walker, samsonov, gritty vet awardo, larose, etc

Exactly, so how it could be the "right timing" is what I don't understand. I'm not saying they haven't extended players when they should have, or managed to sign good ones. The problem is overvaluing and then digging holes like with Semin we can't escape.

I've never thought a "hands off" owner was the way to go. Part of the reason he may be hands off is because he doesn't know as much about hockey as he thinks he does.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Exactly, so how it could be the "right timing" is what I don't understand.

09-10, coming off a ECF appearance, is not the right timing? He opened up the pursestrings to allow JR to try to put together a contending team...it is not his responsibility to sign the players.

I'm not saying they haven't extended players when they should have, or managed to sign good ones. The problem is overvaluing and then digging holes like with Semin we can't escape.

Wait, so you are blaming PK for *allowing* JR to spend money to re-sign players he wanted to sign? He should have stepped in and said no? The argument is that PK has been too lenient and should be interfering with hockey decisions?

 

[DaveG]

I dislike Karmanos as much as the next guy, and would love to see the team sold to someone with far stronger local ties. But that said, the mess we're in right now is about 90% on Rutherford, 10% on Karmanos.

The 10% that's on Karmanos is that I would have canned Rutherford in December or early January of 11-12 when the team was one of the 3 worst teams in the league. Rutherford sticking around for the rest of the season after that point is quite literally the worst thing that has happened to this franchise since Ron Francis was traded almost literally 20 years before that. Even a week out from the trade deadline the Canes were at the very bottom of the standings in the East. We had what was expected to be 2 of the premier trade deadline chips at the time in Gleason and Ruutu, both of who were impending UFAs and already showing signs of being on the downswing. We likely would have returned first round picks (or 2nds and solid prospects) on both players.

Instead we sign both to massive extensions that proved to be absolute debacles. Our team is paying the price now after being in limbo the past 3 years, because we had no depth, because JR auctioned it all off for magic beans due to the fact that he had no long-term plan. The team, right now, could actually have depth and be ready to reach that point where they turn the corner and become competitive again. Instead, we're stuck waiting for another 2-3 seasons or looking to trade futures for more magic beans that never work out for us the way they do for other teams.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Also with regards to your "leave it as a legacy to his sons" comment, Karmanos is 72. Four of his kids aren't viable for succession planning purposes due to their ages. As of the time I last posted on this in September, his kids were:

Peter III - 48 years old, a VP at Compuware
Nick - 46 years old, a Senior VP at the Karmanos Cancer Institute
Jason - 40 years old, VP of Hockey Operations for the Pittsburgh Penguins
Socrates - 4 years old
Leonidas - 4 years old
Spiros - 3 years old
Aristides - 2 years old

The only son with any interest in hockey is Jason and their falling out has been well-publicized. Sure, you could keep it around for little Socrates, Leonidas, Spiros, and Aristides in hopes that they wind up wanting to get into hockey, but what do you do in the intervening years between their childhoods and when they could actually own the team?

 

[Anton Babchuk]

tbh i think it would be a p good marketing opportunity to have our team owned by little kids named socrates, leonidas, spiros, and aristides

make it happen gary

 

[mattyace9]

Wait, so you are blaming PK for *allowing* JR to spend money to re-sign players he wanted to sign? He should have stepped in and said no? The argument is that PK has been too lenient and should be interfering with hockey decisions?

Um, yeah pretty much.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The last thing we need is an owner who refuses to spend money because he thinks he knows better than the GM.

We are suffering because of personnel decisions that went bad. It's really that simple.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

lol @ those kid names

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

no but seriously

i am loling

leonidas will lead us to the promised land

 

[tarheelhockey]

Sounds like he wanted them to have Greek names

 

[DaveG]

This is RALEIGH?

 

[BrindAmours Army]

Wait are those actually his kids' names? I assumed the last four were just thrown in for the laughs. I guess he wasn't happy with how the first three turned out...

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

Also with regards to your "leave it as a legacy to his sons" comment, Karmanos is 72. Four of his kids aren't viable for succession planning purposes due to their ages. As of the time I last posted on this in September, his kids were:

Peter III - 48 years old, a VP at Compuware
Nick - 46 years old, a Senior VP at the Karmanos Cancer Institute
Jason - 40 years old, VP of Hockey Operations for the Pittsburgh Penguins
Socrates - 4 years old
Leonidas - 4 years old
Spiros - 3 years old
Aristides - 2 years old

The only son with any interest in hockey is Jason and their falling out has been well-publicized. Sure, you could keep it around for little Socrates, Leonidas, Spiros, and Aristides in hopes that they wind up wanting to get into hockey, but what do you do in the intervening years between their childhoods and when they could actually own the team?

I genuinely thought you were making these up, even though I know you're usually pretty matter-of-fact.

According to Google, I was wrong. Good lord, PK.

 

[StormCast]

leonidas will lead us to the promised land

Don't forget his illegitimate son Xerxes but those two don't play nicely.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Wait are those actually his kids' names? I assumed the last four were just thrown in for the laughs. I guess he wasn't happy with how the first three turned out...

Those are, indeed, actually the name of his kids by his third wife, Danialle

That's Spiros Maximus Karmanos with them there.

 

[Identity404]

It must be weird to be nearly 50 and have a 4 year old (half) brother. Your own kids would be old enough to father your brother.

 

[GoldiFox]

To be fair he is Greek.

 

[Identity404]

Can confirm. I'm Greek and have a bother named Gyro and a sister named Tzatziki.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Can confirm. I'm Greek and have a bother named Gyro and a sister named Tzatziki.

i am also greek

my sisters name is olive



jk

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Can confirm. I'm Greek and have a bother named Gyro and a sister named Tzatziki.

Would that make you a boy named Souvlaki?