In 2017 Rasmus Dahlin was called "The McDavid/Eichel for defencemen" agree or disagree?

[grentthealien]

Dahlin and Hughes are both in their D+2 season and are separated by a handful of months, so age isn't really a factor like you're making it out to be. However, I think Dahlen has better tools than Hughes and could be the better player. But, right now, based on stats and the eye test, Hughes is tracking better than Dahlin.

That said, the way defenseman develop, we won't know who the best of the bunch is until 4-5 years down the line.

Fair Enough. I’m a Canucks fan so trust me I’d love it if Hughes turned out better than Dahlin. I just see Dahlin as the better player long term or at the very least the more well rounded player.

 

[nowhereman]

This is an atrocious take.

This is a very good example of putting too much stock into one season worth of analytics. Make a poll, and Hughes won't get 10% of the vote that isn't from Canuck fans.

"Atrocious"? That's rich, coming from the guy who tried to claim that Hughes wasn't even a top 3 defenseman from his own draft class. Your agenda is loud and clear.

In reality, I think many would agree with what I said: Hughes has shown slightly better at the NHL level, Dahlin has better tools and there's no way of knowing who will be better until years down the road. It's only an "atrocious" take because it kills you that anyone would compliment a player for whom you have an obvious bias.

 

[tucker3434]

Dahlin was probably the most hyped defenseman since Erik Johnson, which probably should have been a red flag from the start. He’s been really good, just not transcendent as I would have expected.

 

[Vide]

He had a great rookie season but he hasn't taken that next step that I expected him to this year. But the guy is a 19 year old defenseman in the NHL and he's playing on a pretty unspectacular team. I think he'll live up to his hype but it may take another year or two for him to really come into his own.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

"Atrocious"? That's rich, coming from the guy who tried to claim that Hughes wasn't even a top 3 defenseman from his own draft class. Your agenda is loud and clear.

In reality, I think many would agree with what I said: Hughes has shown slightly better at the NHL level, Dahlen has better tools and there's no way of knowing who will be better until years down the road. It's only an "atrocious" take because it kills you that anyone would compliment a player for whom you have an obvious bias.

The spelling isn’t far behind the take.

 

[nowhereman]

The spelling isn’t far behind the take.

"Winning Aguments for Dummies" tip #24: when you can't formulate a reasonable argument, go after spelling.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Dahlin was probably the most hyped defenseman since Erik Johnson, which probably should have been a red flag from the start. He’s been really good, just not transcendent as I would have expected.

Dahlin was way more hyped than Johnson, and rightfully so.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

"Winning Aguments for Dummies" tip #24: when you can't formulate a reasonable argument, go after spelling.

I have to give you credit. You stumped me with how bad of a take you put out there. You put such an illogical argument that I chose some humor instead of trying to reason with something so illogical.

 

[tucker3434]

Dahlin was way more hyped than Johnson, and rightfully so.

Well that’s missing the point.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Well that’s missing the point.

What was your point? It wasn't clear to me what the function of the (faulty) comparison was, and I think the expectation of immediate transcendence as well as the writing off of the possibility of eventual transcendence are both silly.

 

[tucker3434]

What was your point? It wasn't clear to me what the function of the (faulty) comparison was, and I think the expectation of immediate transcendence as well as the writing off of the possibility of eventual transcendence are both silly.

Well, first off, it wasn’t a comparison. You aren’t comparing EJ to Dahlin. You’re comparing everyone after EJ. Anyone saying Lafreniere is the best prospect since McDavid isn’t saying he’s as good as McDavid. Second, the reason I brought EJ up was because he’s a great example of how hype could mean very little. EJ had more hype than almost every prospect since then. Yet, here we are. So if you’re sole response is that Dahlin was more hyped, you just kinda missed what I was trying to say, twice.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Well, first off, it wasn’t a comparison. You aren’t comparing EJ to Dahlin. You’re comparing everyone after EJ. Anyone saying Lafreniere is the best prospect since McDavid isn’t saying he’s as good as McDavid. Second, the reason I brought EJ up was because he’s a great example of how hype could mean very little. EJ had more hype than almost every prospect since then. Yet, here we are. So if you’re sole response is that Dahlin was more hyped, you just kinda missed what I was trying to say, twice.

Most hyped since (X) implies a comparison to (X). It's a bad comparison, because not only have there been far more highly hyped DMen since Johnson and before Dahlin, but Dahlin was the most hyped DMan since far before Johnson. So, bringing up Johnson serves no purpose other than to say "hype does not always become the reality" which, in the context of discussing Dahlin, seems like a pretty irrelevant and superfluous point or, at the very least, a wildly premature one.

So no, that's not my sole response at all. It's that, as I said, the expectation of immediate transcendence as well as the writing off of the possibility of eventual transcendence are both silly.

 

[tucker3434]

Most hyped since (X) implies a comparison to (X). It's a bad comparison, because not only have there been far more highly hyped DMen since Johnson and before Dahlin, but Dahlin was the most hyped DMan since far before Johnson. So, bringing up Johnson serves no purpose other than to say "hype does not always become the reality" which, in the context of discussing Dahlin, seems like a pretty irrelevant and superfluous point or, at the very least, a wildly premature one.

So no, that's not my sole response at all. It's that, as I said, the expectation of immediate transcendence as well as the writing off of the possibility of eventual transcendence are both silly.

No it doesn’t. It means literally exactly what it says.

There really haven’t unless you’re pretty heavily revising history. There have only been a handful of really hyped defensemen in the past 15 years. Doughty, Hedman, and Ekblad are pretty much the only contenders in between. All those guys were in the same stratosphere. That’s 2 out of 4 of the super-hyped defensemen that have hit their mark.

I’m not saying Dahlin will or won’t meet his potential. I’m saying he isn’t as good as I expected him to be at this point. And picking defensemen is a lot harder than picking forwards.

 

[tsujimoto74]

No it doesn’t. It means literally exactly what it says.

There really haven’t unless you’re pretty heavily revising history. There have only been a handful of really hyped defensemen in the past 15 years. Doughty, Hedman, and Ekblad are pretty much the only contenders in between. All those guys were in the same stratosphere. That’s 2 out of 4 of the super-hyped defensemen that have hit their mark.

I’m not saying Dahlin will or won’t meet his potential. I’m saying he isn’t as good as I expected him to be at this point. And picking defensemen is a lot harder than picking forwards.

He's the most productive teenage defenseman the NHL has seen in 3 decades. What were you expecting him to do? Win the Norris in his rookie season?

 

[Ace]

He’s going to end up the second highest scoring teenage defenseman in history on a team that doesn’t score, trailing only Housley who played in a wide open era.

Passed Bobby Orr today.

6 points from second.

 

[tucker3434]

He's the most productive teenage defenseman the NHL has seen in 3 decades. What were you expecting him to do? Win the Norris in his rookie season?

The guy mentioned in the title of the OP is Connor McDavid who won the Hart, Lindsay, and Art Ross in his second season. That’s the standard we’re working with here. That isn’t quite fair since defensemen take longer, but I did expect Dahlin to be clearly the best of the new generation of defensemen by now. He isn’t. He’s one of the better ones, for sure. But to this point, he’s been closer to a good 1OA pick than to a Connor McDavid.

 

[93LEAFS]

People always underestimate how rocky and unpredictable the development of young defenders is. The likelihood of him becoming the best defender in the league would always be lesser than a prospect like McDavid becoming the best forward in the league. Forwards are just much easier and safer to project.

 

[keglu]

He's the most productive teenage defenseman the NHL has seen in 3 decades. What were you expecting him to do? Win the Norris in his rookie season?

Be better in his second year than rookie defenceman from his draft class.

 

[al secord]

I like Santa.

 

[Unspecified]

I feel like people are looking too much into his points totals, but he certainly has the potential to be the best defenseman in hockey. In terms of this season, I feel like there's some young d-man outplaying him in the all-around two-way game and especially on the defensive side.

AB13 will have a coronary if he reads this because to him Dalin is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I agree with your analysis.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The guy mentioned in the title of the OP is Connor McDavid who won the Hart, Lindsay, and Art Ross in his second season. That’s the standard we’re working with here. That isn’t quite fair since defensemen take longer, but I did expect Dahlin to be clearly the best of the new generation of defensemen by now. He isn’t. He’s one of the better ones, for sure. But to this point, he’s been closer to a good 1OA pick than to a Connor McDavid.

I think using McDavid to compare to Dahlin is a bad idea. McDavid was given the keys to that team in his second season. They named him captain, and he ran that team. The organization isn't that much better run than Buffalo, but giving McDavid a lot of responsibility wasn't something the team struggled with.

A better example would be comparing him to Eichel. Buffalo is a terrible team and very dysfunctional. The first few seasons Eichel wasn't playing the role he should and he was being blamed for things that weren't his fault. The same is happening now with Dahlin. It took some time for Buffalo to increase Eichel's role in all-situations, and force him to improve in all parts of the game. Eichel and now Dahlin's development would've went better if they gave him a role more similar to McDavid within the organization, but they've operated differently than Edmonton in that regard, which is why its taken them longer to reach their potential.

Eichel reaching his potential now is not some surprise. He always had top 5 player in the league potential, but the way Buffalo operated impeded him for years. The same is happening with Dahlin. You shouldn't compare him to players such as Heiskanen, Makar, Hughes. In a few years there will be a gap between him and those players. I think most realize that. More talented hockey player, and he's doing well with the role he's done, but he's playing a disproportionately smaller role than he should be.