Rumor: Ilya Sorokin (in the works?)

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

The 100-120th best defenseman on the planet is what, Connor Murphy range? That’s clearly a valuable second pairing defenseman.

A goalie in that range is an AHL veteran/Euro leaguer.

Drafting goalies is stupid.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Goalie cupboard should be bare. Draft skaters. Riding this train til I die.

Yeah there's no point in drafting goalies UNLESS a highly ranked one slips to the last couple rounds. Like Gravel. Apparently a lot of goalie scouts really like Basse too.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

And I’m in no way diminishing the value of a good goalie. Goal tending is 75% of the game unless you don’t have one, in which case it’s everything. But plenty of good ones are available every year, and plenty of potentially good ones are just as available every year that cost nothing but money.

A goalie draft pick is squandered opportunity cost.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Antii Raanta. Scott Darling. Antii Niemi.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Yeah there's no point in drafting goalies UNLESS a highly ranked one slips to the last couple rounds. Like Gravel. Apparently a lot of goalie scouts really like Basse too.

I’ve long maintained that I wouldn’t draft a guy before the last few rounds, but yes it is forgivable if you’re grabbing high upside guys with what amount to lottery ticket picks.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

And I’m in no way diminishing the value of a good goalie. Goal tending is 75% of the game unless you don’t have one, in which case it’s everything. But plenty of good ones are available every year, and plenty of potentially good ones are just as available every year that cost nothing but money.

A goalie draft pick is squandered opportunity cost.

Could this same logic be applied when arguing against locking up a goalie with a big money and longterm contract?

 

[pnch40]

i cant even imagine what we would have had to give up. sorokin is an all world goalie

Would this be an insane get? Hes young. I thought we had our future goalie expiring this year (also currently being rumored as trade bait)

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Could this same logic be applied when arguing against locking up a goalie with a big money and longterm contract?

Not really. Goalies are voodoo and I’d never give one Price/Bob money but an established guy with a good track record is worth Crawford/Rinne money.

Edit: Established NHL goalies are worth more because they’ve all clearly somewhat hit on their ceiling. They aren’t the question marks that most teenagers are when you’re expending resources. The 200th best forward on the planet is a good middle six guy in the NHL whereas the 200th best goalie is making 40k playing in some second tier league.

 

[GaryU]

If only they kept mike smith as gm

Yah, great use of 1st round draft choices with Vorobiev and Yakubov.

 

[coolhand]

If only they kept mike smith as gm

But he also hired Alpo Suhonen as coach so you never know

 

[Mrfenn92]

Yah, great use of 1st round draft choices with Vorobiev and Yakubov.

I like when posters give good draft choices of gm's but not bad ones.
Just because they don't like the current one. Always bringing up his mistakes but not his wins.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Yah, great use of 1st round draft choices with Vorobiev and Yakubov.

But he also hired Alpo Suhonen as coach so you never know

I wasnt being serious about the mike smith quote.

 

[coolhand]

Yeah there's no point in drafting goalies UNLESS a highly ranked one slips to the last couple rounds. Like Gravel. Apparently a lot of goalie scouts really like Basse too.

Belfour was a first rounder, and worth it

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Mike Smith wasn’t a great GM but he brought the team kicking it’s feet into the modern age.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Belfour was a first rounder, and worth it

Hoping this is sarcasm, as Belfour wasn’t drafted at all.

 

[coolhand]

Hoping this is sarcasm, as Belfour wasn’t drafted at all.

You're right, I thought he was drafted and signed

 

[echlfreak]

Yeah there's no point in drafting goalies UNLESS a highly ranked one slips to the last couple rounds. Like Gravel. Apparently a lot of goalie scouts really like Basse too.

Sorry Musto, I am not seeing the argument. Gravel is terrible this year and Basse hasn't done anything in Youngstown this year. That's what you get out of 6th round picks. No different than if you waited to draft all your D or F in the 6th and 7th rounds.

Since the Salary Cap was introduced, the goalies that were drafted in the first round who panned out were:

Price.
Rask.
Varlamov
Bernier
Subban?
Campbell?
Vasilevskey
Samsonov

The busts were:

Irving
Helenius
Pickard
McCollum
Vistinen


I'm sure there were busts in different positions as well but those that were not are pretty damn good.

After that

Oettinger and Knight look like pretty good prospects. Add Askarov to that mix and I don't see the downside in drafting goalies? Look at how Washington has drafted goalies and you will see it can actually work to a team's advantage to draft them consistently high.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Smith was a terrible GM that had some amazingly good picks emerge, for lack of a better term, “posthumously.” He tried a lot of things that didn’t work with regard to drafting/acquiring European players/coaches. Then IIRC, there was somewhat of a mandate to greater explore North America for talent. At least that’s what the fanbase wanted. Then he made magic with a number of decisions. All 3 GMs (Smith, Tallon, Bowman) were equally responsible for the 3 Cups IMO.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Sorry Musto, I am not seeing the argument. Gravel is terrible this year and Basse hasn't done anything in Youngstown this year. That's what you get out of 6th round picks. No different than if you waited to draft all your D or F in the 6th and 7th rounds.

Since the Salary Cap was introduced, the goalies that were drafted in the first round who panned out were:

Price.
Rask.
Varlamov
Bernier
Subban?
Campbell?
Vasilevskey
Samsonov

The busts were:

Irving
Helenius
Pickard
McCollum
Vistinen


I'm sure there were busts in different positions as well but those that were not are pretty damn good.

After that

Oettinger and Knight look like pretty good prospects. Add Askarov to that mix and I don't see the downside in drafting goalies? Look at how Washington has drafted goalies and you will see it can actually work to a team's advantage to draft them consistently high.

You're obviously a stat watcher if you think Gravel has been terrible

 

[LDF]

Smith was a terrible GM that had some amazingly good picks emerge, for lack of a better term, “posthumously.” He tried a lot of things that didn’t work with regard to drafting/acquiring European players/coaches. Then IIRC, there was somewhat of a mandate to greater explore North America for talent. At least that’s what the fanbase wanted. Then he made magic with a number of decisions. All 3 GMs (Smith, Tallon, Bowman) were equally responsible for the 3 Cups IMO.

i wouldn't go so far as to say that they take equal credit...... need to see where the main core and who was the GM at the time....

now i will give credit to all 3 of them for have a hand in maintaining it. but .........

 

[LDF]

Sorry Musto, I am not seeing the argument. Gravel is terrible this year and Basse hasn't done anything in Youngstown this year. That's what you get out of 6th round picks. No different than if you waited to draft all your D or F in the 6th and 7th rounds.

Since the Salary Cap was introduced, the goalies that were drafted in the first round who panned out were:

Price.
Rask.
Varlamov
Bernier
Subban?
Campbell?
Vasilevskey
Samsonov

The busts were:

Irving
Helenius
Pickard
McCollum
Vistinen


I'm sure there were busts in different positions as well but those that were not are pretty damn good.

After that

Oettinger and Knight look like pretty good prospects. Add Askarov to that mix and I don't see the downside in drafting goalies? Look at how Washington has drafted goalies and you will see it can actually work to a team's advantage to draft them consistently high.

i will not give up on Gravel just because he had a bad yr. i will say he had a off yr.......athletes do have off yrs.... that doesn't make them a bad player.

 

[Kevin Musto]

i will not give up on Gravel just because he had a bad yr. i will say he had a off yr.......athletes do have off yrs.... that doesn't make them a bad player.

What bad year? He's not having a bad year.

 

[LDF]

What bad year? He's not having a bad year.

ref Alexis Gravel has less wins this yr verses last season. one could say he stinks i say he is having a off yr ...... now the team in front of him needs to be maybe discuss ??

Alexis Gravel Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[echlfreak]

You're obviously a stat watcher if you think Gravel has been terrible

Musto, out of that entire post about drafting goalies in the first round you decided to defend Gravel? and your junk theory of not drafting goalies high.

OK, what are the redeeming qualities that make Gravel an NHL goalie out of the 6th round?. And, why should the Hawks continue to draft goalies in the later rounds instead of the early rounds?

 

[Kevin Musto]

ref Alexis Gravel has less wins this yr verses last season. one could say he stinks i say he is having a off yr ...... now the team in front of him needs to be maybe discuss ??

Alexis Gravel Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Halifax's best players got traded. Barron has been injured. They're in full tank mode. 2nd worst team in the league. Meanwhile last year's roster took them to the Memorial Cup finals.