Line Combos: If you are the GM, What are you doing?
- Thread starter tranquiljoe33
- Start date
Im not to worried about the future of the forwards for a couple reasons.
1) Just look at when our contracts will run out:
McLeod- 1 year- i plan on Malone taking over his role when his contract is up unless he becomes a little more disciplined this year maybe earning another small contract)
Malone- 1 year- obviously already in the plans to be re-signed
Kesler- 2 years- plan on re-signing. He will only be 31.
Tanguay- 2 years- probably wont be re-signed, would need a replacement, but he plays in the bottom 6 in this current make up of the team
Talbot- 2 years- may or may not be re-signed, but if he does need to be replaced, he is just a role playing bottom 6 player
Bordy- 2 years- may or may not be re-signed, but if he does need to be replaced, he is yet another role playing bottom 6 player
MacK- 2 years- he will be re-signed
Cliche- 2 years- who cares, he is already bumped to AHL call up duty
MacKenzie- 2 years- at his age he might be looking to retire, will need to plan on a replacement, but, yet again, he is another role playing bottom 6 player.
Mitchell- 3 years- re-signed more than likely.
So, in the next 5 years the only top6 player we need to re-sign would be Kesler, who I would plan on doing so before even doing that trade. I figure he should be good to go until 35 or so. I figure most players should go pretty strong until that age unless they have had a lot of injuries. And yes, I know he might not re-sign (this is the main risk IMO), but he apparently loves it here. There is a reason why he is willing to be traded here. I think he would be looking to stick around and finish out his career here. But if he did not re-sign, i would like to think there would be better options for that top RW spot via FA than there are this year. Because of how young the top6 is we do not need a guy like Hishon waiting in the wings to take over one of their spots. The top6 is set for years to come.
2) So that just leaves the bottom 6. Which leads to my next point. I honestly like the group of prospects we just signed and a couple of the left overs from last year (Smith and Bourke sound like they have potential to be quality undersized scorers). I think a couple of our guys, new or old, will turn into at least bottom 6 players . Which that is all we currently need- someone that can fill in on the bottom 6 in a call up situation (keep in mind we also have Cliche and Malone waiting to be called up as well who are proven NHLers). And when we are needing to replace those guys in 2 years, if they are not re-signed, I believe we will have a few prospects ready to step into bottom 6 roles. Tanguay will be the hardest guy to replace, but if he keeps getting injured its not like we are replacing him if he doesnt actually play. And there should be a few 3rd liners who are capable of filling in in the top 6 via FA if we cant replace Tanguay from within.
3) But if we dont have anyone ready to step into the bottom 6, its much easier to find replacements via FA for these guys than it is the top 6.
Dman is what i would worry about. Thats a pretty veteran group with no younger guys capable for the top pair. Barrie is going to to be a great player, but I doubt he will ever be good enough defensively to play the top pair. I do think Bigras will eventually get there, but think it would be close. And on top of that, everyone's contract is up in the next 2 years, minus Barrie with 3 years left. However, in this instance, Siemens is really the only prospect we would miss. Elliott, I just dont see how he is in our plans with Barrie already on the team and excelling in that role. PaP obviously isnt going to help the D and is apparently out the door. Hishon obviously would not help this situation. And the 1sts will probably be even further behind than Bigras.
Honestly though, i think we could get those 2 for one less piece to the trade, maybe even 2. I just didnt want to say something ridiculous like Kesler for PaP because you can literally trade anyone for nothing on the capgeek armchair GM thing. Wanted to make sure the trade was more than fair, value wise. Obviously I would start off offering less. I would be willing to go that far though if thats what it took to get Kesler and a Dman. But the more I think about it, the more i want to do separate trades for Kesler (2014 1st, Siemens, PaP) and a Dman (2015 1st, Elliott, Hishon). I think Hamhuis is exactly what we need now, but that is too much for a guy his age. When the kid falls asleep for a nap I am going to play around and see what other Dman (Jack Johnson is someone that comes to mind right away) would be good instead of Hamuis. Though, by trading with 2 teams we probably would have to use all 6 of the pieces. 3 to each team instead of just 5 to 1 team.
Malone is a UFA this summer. Not sure he'll even be brought back for next season, let alone anything beyond that.
Trading away two consecutive first round picks should not be an option. That would mean that from the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 drafts, the Avs would only have one first round pick, and they don't have a second round this year either. The best teams, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc. have guys in the AHL ready to step in with injuries or if guys are lost to free agency. We don't have that.
It's also not exactly easy to replace depth forwards in the bottom 6, and you seem to be acting like it is. It certainly isn't easy when you've traded away anyone below that.
Trading away two consecutive first round picks should not be an option. That would mean that from the 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015 drafts, the Avs would only have one first round pick, and they don't have a second round this year either. The best teams, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc. have guys in the AHL ready to step in with injuries or if guys are lost to free agency. We don't have that.
It's also not exactly easy to replace depth forwards in the bottom 6, and you seem to be acting like it is. It certainly isn't easy when you've traded away anyone below that.
Pete Mitchell
"Watch the canopy!!"
Here's my crazy plan (with the assumption that a deal can't be reached with Staz). And that this team is ready to compete for a championship now and for the next 5 years rather than 3-5 years down the road.
I would target a top line winger to play with ROR and Dutch with some grit and trade-PAP, Elliot, Pickard, Rights to Staz and 2014 1st to the Jets for E. Kane and a 2014 3rd (becomes a 2nd if Staz resigns).
Next would be a top-4 LHD, going off grid on this one and offer sheeting RFA Brenden Dillon a 5yr/5AAV, going that high for potential and so that Dallas won't match, this would forfeit the Avs 2015 1st and 3rd round picks.
Trade Wilson as a salary dump to a low cap team, Buffalo, for a 5th round pick.
Resign RFAs: ROR to a 6yr/6AAV, MCG to a 3yr/3AAV, Barrie 2yr/3AAV and UFA: Malone to a 2YR/1.0AAV.
Sign UFAs: Kulemin 4yr/3.5AAV, Gilbert 2yr/1.25AAV
Line up and cap hits would be:
LW C RW
ROR (6) DUTCH (6) E.KANE (5.25)
LANDY (5.5) MACK (2.85) TANGY (3.5)
MCG (3.5) MALKIN (1.8) KULE (3.5)
GINGER (1.15) MALONE (1.0) TALB (1.75)
CLICHÉ (.7)
BORDY (1.0)
LD RD
DILLON (5) EJ (3.75)
HEJDA (3.25) BARRIE (3)
HOLDEN (.6) GILBERT (1.25)
GUENIN (.8)
G BUYOUT
VARLY (5.9) ZANON (.75)
BERRA (1.4)
CAP HIT
69.2-Leaves room for another addition (3rd Line Center)
Flame on!
I would target a top line winger to play with ROR and Dutch with some grit and trade-PAP, Elliot, Pickard, Rights to Staz and 2014 1st to the Jets for E. Kane and a 2014 3rd (becomes a 2nd if Staz resigns).
Next would be a top-4 LHD, going off grid on this one and offer sheeting RFA Brenden Dillon a 5yr/5AAV, going that high for potential and so that Dallas won't match, this would forfeit the Avs 2015 1st and 3rd round picks.
Trade Wilson as a salary dump to a low cap team, Buffalo, for a 5th round pick.
Resign RFAs: ROR to a 6yr/6AAV, MCG to a 3yr/3AAV, Barrie 2yr/3AAV and UFA: Malone to a 2YR/1.0AAV.
Sign UFAs: Kulemin 4yr/3.5AAV, Gilbert 2yr/1.25AAV
Line up and cap hits would be:
LW C RW
ROR (6) DUTCH (6) E.KANE (5.25)
LANDY (5.5) MACK (2.85) TANGY (3.5)
MCG (3.5) MALKIN (1.8) KULE (3.5)
GINGER (1.15) MALONE (1.0) TALB (1.75)
CLICHÉ (.7)
BORDY (1.0)
LD RD
DILLON (5) EJ (3.75)
HEJDA (3.25) BARRIE (3)
HOLDEN (.6) GILBERT (1.25)
GUENIN (.8)
G BUYOUT
VARLY (5.9) ZANON (.75)
BERRA (1.4)
CAP HIT
69.2-Leaves room for another addition (3rd Line Center)
Flame on!
Last edited:
Avs71
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2008
- 8,958
- 4,415
Only way that Kane trade would work would be if Stastny had a deal in place, and even then, the Jets would rather just wait till July 1st. I'm not a huge fan of how Kane plays either. He's very north-south. Not sure he would gel with Duchene.
I love the idea of getting Dillon though, but that's a little steep. Dillon-EJ would be a nasty top-pairing to play against. I think Dallas would match that too.
I love the idea of getting Dillon though, but that's a little steep. Dillon-EJ would be a nasty top-pairing to play against. I think Dallas would match that too.
Pete Mitchell
"Watch the canopy!!"
That's why I threw in the 2014 1st, they could always flip his rights for another pick/player. That's why I think he would work well with Dutch and ROR, a player to drive that center line while ROR and Dutch work the D east and west.
I think so as well, but that 2015 1st might be really enticing to Dallas
I think so as well, but that 2015 1st might be really enticing to Dallas
Avs71
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2008
- 8,958
- 4,415
-Trade the 23rd overall+Parenteau+3rd to Phoenix for 12th overall. Draft Haydn Fleury.
-Stastny's rights to New Jersey for a 2014 3rd.
-McGinn+Elliott+2nd 2015 to Ottawa for Jared Cowen and Zach Smith.
-Duncan Siemens to Buffalo for Marcus Foligno
-Re-sign O'Reilly, Barrie
-Sign Matt Green, Mike Cammalleri, Milan Michalek
O'Reilly-Duchene-Cammalleri
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Michalek
Foligno-Mitchell-Talbot
McLeod-Smith-Bordeleau
Hejda-EJ
Cowen-Barrie
Holden-Greene
Wilson-Guenin
Await the arrival of Fleury and Bigras, watch Cowen develop into a top-pairing player and become EJ's partner, be one of the meanest teams in the West.
-Stastny's rights to New Jersey for a 2014 3rd.
-McGinn+Elliott+2nd 2015 to Ottawa for Jared Cowen and Zach Smith.
-Duncan Siemens to Buffalo for Marcus Foligno
-Re-sign O'Reilly, Barrie
-Sign Matt Green, Mike Cammalleri, Milan Michalek
O'Reilly-Duchene-Cammalleri
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Michalek
Foligno-Mitchell-Talbot
McLeod-Smith-Bordeleau
Hejda-EJ
Cowen-Barrie
Holden-Greene
Wilson-Guenin
Await the arrival of Fleury and Bigras, watch Cowen develop into a top-pairing player and become EJ's partner, be one of the meanest teams in the West.
AvsGuy
Hired the wrong DJ again
Bubba Thudd
is getting banned
shadow1
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2008
- 16,602
- 5,264
If the Avs can't move Parenteau for a decent defenseman, one trade I'd like to see is one that sends him to Nashville for Paul Gaustad.
Gaustad is definitely overpaid - 3.25 million cap hit the next two seasons - but he brings two things Colorado was sorely lacking in the post season: size and face-off ability. IMO Colorado could use a player like him to fill the role Jarret Stoll fills for Los Angeles.
Gaustad is definitely overpaid - 3.25 million cap hit the next two seasons - but he brings two things Colorado was sorely lacking in the post season: size and face-off ability. IMO Colorado could use a player like him to fill the role Jarret Stoll fills for Los Angeles.
Of course its not known what will happen with Malone. Isnt the thread about playing GM? Thats just what i would do. I like Malone as a 4th liner. He is an aggressive checker with good size and decent offensive skills for a 4th liner. Just needs a little work on his D. Got no problem with Malone taking over McLeod's spot if he isnt retained. And I would love to have him as our 1st call up (14th forward) this coming up year.
The best teams also have a very good group of Dmen. We dont have that. And the best teams also have well rounded top forwards. Something else we are slightly lacking (we are a little soft and offensive minded). To me we are a legit two way top 6 forward and a shut down top pair dman away from being cup contenders, barring Varly going back into a shell. We are going to lack something for the next few years. Personally, I would rather lack prospects than the top players. How long before those prospects can help? What type of other holes will come about in the meantime while we wait for them to fill these holes we have now? By the time Siemens and the 1st round picks are ready to be that top pair Dman Hedja will probably have retired and we once again need another top4 defensive minded Dman. Elliott is probably ready for a role now, but that just isnt with this team. We have no room for a guy like him other than have him sit on his butt in case an injury happens, while we are playing the entire time with a hole on the top. Seems to me like his best value is used by bring in a guy who will play 82 games. Same goes for Hishon and PaP. What do we need another offensive playmaker for when we really need another top 6 power forward type? Sure it would be great to have depth like that, but IMO, there is no point in having promising depth when you lack something at the top of the lineup.
And it seems like we disagree on how good some of the prospects are. I got faith we have a couple who can play at this level even after getting rid of all that in the trade I made. I dont expect any stars, but I think some will be solid NHLers which is all we will need from our prospects over the next 5 years as far as forwards go. But like i said, i am worried about the D, which is why I am going against the my original plan of Hamhuis. Instead Im thinking Coburn would be the best most realistic option with those trade pieces. He probably has a couple more years in him over Hamhuis, which is the time we need to replish the prospect pool. With Coburn we would have 3 solid top 4 players for another 4 or 5 years. Plus Hedja however long he hangs around. Which by the time Hedja is retiring Bigras I think will be ready for a top 4 role. I really like what that kid has done so far.
Im not acting like its easy to find replacements in the bottom 6, but its a lot easier than finding them for guys who contracts are up in the top 6. Just look at FA this year. How many legit top 6 players are there? How many tweeners and bottom 6 guys? Tons more of the tweeners and bottom 6. And there is even less of the legit top pair Dmen. markov is basically the only one. And if he stays on the market he is going to cost a ton of cap space.
Love the idea of getting Cowen, but I think it would cost a lot more than that. The guy is only 23 and already getting top4 minutes and putting up effective D numbers. Plus he is on a great contract, and Ottawa has plenty of cap space. I dont see why they would get rid of him for anything less than a star forward. Im sure they see him much like we do a Lando or Johnson- pretty untouchable. I sure wish this were possible though.
Have you watched him play the last couple years? Hes regressed, and makes absolutely mind boggling bad decisions in the defensive zone.
Hes physical, but that's about it... Hes turning into Shenn, and his development curve has stagnated, and even regressed for two years now.
Low hockey IQ makes me want to stay away from that...
hughdreamz
Registered User
This. Kesler is not exactly #1 priority for us. Of course he could help us, but he's not gonna push us over the to. We need first pairing defemsena first. I would rather spend all my assests on that first..
All of our assets combined outside of the core : Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon, O'Reilly, Varly, EJ : are not going to bring us a first pairing defender for the left side.
IMO the closest you get is Staal/Martin and that's because both of them only have a year left on their contracts. Both teams are contenders as well, so picks and prospects have very little value to those teams.
Anyone you get is most likely not going to be able to start on EJ's left side immediately, and give you solid 22-24 minutes a night against other teams top lines.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
But why use every single asset to get a forward when you can get one as a UFA? Yes you'll pay a little more but Kesler's salary isn't cheap and he's going to need a raise in 2 years.
Not really. Looks really promising on paper to me.
Who is saying use everything on just Kesler?
And who in FA is a similar type player? I see guys who are similar style, but not on the same level talent wise. The guys on the same talent level have different styles. For me its not about adding another talented player but one who has a certain skill set. Callahan would be the closest thing in FA but he is undersized for that style and very overrated. I wouldnt even attempt to try and get into that wasted cap space.
I would be curious o hear some guys who are a little younger but in the same mold (big, physical, great D, goal scorer) that could be other potential trade targets.
Last edited:
agentblack
Registered User
Avs71
Registered User
- Aug 12, 2008
- 8,958
- 4,415
I suggested a Gaustad-Parenteau swap way back around the deadline. It seems like it would be a Roy type trade. It's a swap I could seriously see happen.
Forgot he existed. Don't sign Michalek and plug Tangs in.
Someone stupid, or in a bad situation. The later being the only reason Kesler is even being talked about.
On paper is about it, not saying it's impossible to turn him around. I just wouldn't pay what you suggested they'd want.
The Pwnerer
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2006
- 6,991
- 4,698
If Stastny is a goner,
-Trade McGinn/Siemans/pick or prospect for Staal
-Use Stastny gained money for a run at Callahan/Vrbata/Michalek, if we lose out go settle for Kulemin
then
-Use Stastny gained money make a run for Grabovski/Bolland, if we lose out go settle for Boyle/Goc
-Sign a veteran d-men to push Guenin to a 7th a la Mitchell or Orpik
ROR-Duchene-PAP
Landeskog-Mack-Tanguay
Mitchell/Talbot-Goc/Boyle-Kulemin
Mcleod-Mitchell/Talbot-Bordy
Staal-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
Holden-Mitchell
Varly
Berra
....then pray EJ can develop more of a offensive game or hope Elliott can become a regular to provide a transition game
-Trade McGinn/Siemans/pick or prospect for Staal
-Use Stastny gained money for a run at Callahan/Vrbata/Michalek, if we lose out go settle for Kulemin
then
-Use Stastny gained money make a run for Grabovski/Bolland, if we lose out go settle for Boyle/Goc
-Sign a veteran d-men to push Guenin to a 7th a la Mitchell or Orpik
ROR-Duchene-PAP
Landeskog-Mack-Tanguay
Mitchell/Talbot-Goc/Boyle-Kulemin
Mcleod-Mitchell/Talbot-Bordy
Staal-EJ
Hejda-Barrie
Holden-Mitchell
Varly
Berra
....then pray EJ can develop more of a offensive game or hope Elliott can become a regular to provide a transition game
UncleRisto
Not Great, Bob!
I'm expecting another move no one was expecting at all. So then... was I expecting that move or not? 
shadow1
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2008
- 16,602
- 5,264
Who do you believe are the top free agents by position?
My opinion:
Center|Left Wing|Right Wing|Defense|Goalie
Paul Stastny|Thomas Vanek|Jarome Iginla|Matt Niskanen|Ryan Miller
Mikhail Grabovski|Mike Cammalleri|Marian Gaborik|Andrei Markov|Jonas Hiller
Dave Bolland|Matt Moulson|Ryan Callahan|Dan Boyle|Tomas Vokoun
David Legwand|Benoit Pouliot|Radim Vrbata|Anton Stralman|Martin Brodeur
Steve Ott|Milan Michalek|Ales Hemsky|Brooks Orpik|Thomas Greiss
As an aside, an under the radar player who really impressed me in the post-season was Dominic Moore. He was one of the Rangers' best players - period.
My opinion:
Paul Stastny|Thomas Vanek|Jarome Iginla|Matt Niskanen|Ryan Miller
Mikhail Grabovski|Mike Cammalleri|Marian Gaborik|Andrei Markov|Jonas Hiller
Dave Bolland|Matt Moulson|Ryan Callahan|Dan Boyle|Tomas Vokoun
David Legwand|Benoit Pouliot|Radim Vrbata|Anton Stralman|Martin Brodeur
Steve Ott|Milan Michalek|Ales Hemsky|Brooks Orpik|Thomas Greiss
As an aside, an under the radar player who really impressed me in the post-season was Dominic Moore. He was one of the Rangers' best players - period.
Ad
Latest posts
-
-
GDT: ECF: Game 1 - New York Rangers vs Florida Panthers, 8pm ET, ESPN
- Latest: robertocarlos
Upcoming events
-
-
Gold Medal PICK ONLY ONE TEAM - 2024 IIHF World Championship - ChampionWagers: 1Staked: $100.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-