If the Top 100 players All-time list is redone today, where does McDavid's career place him?

[daver]

Assuming he doesn't ever put on the skates again, where does he land?

Does he get the Orr treatment? Placed on his peak seasons with a general disregard for the lack of a reasonably full career?

Is Lindros a good precedent to consider? A Top Ten prospect/talent with an unfortunate lack of full peak/prime seasons?

Or Forsberg? A decent amount of seasons in his prime but loses spots in comparison to his peers like Trottier, Sakic and Yzerman due to injuries.

Does his lack of playoff success/elite playoff PPG hurt him?

I am thinking Top 50 myself.

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[tabness]

alls i know is

 

[daver]

alls i know is

View attachment 453738

So somewhere in the Top Ten then?

 

[jalidi]

He's barely in the top ten of the all-time Edmonton Oilers, right now.

He's not ahead of Kevin Lowe or Glenn Anderson or Messier, who have six Cups, or Esa Tikkanen, who has five. Gretzky, Fuhr, Kurri, Coffey, Chris Pronger, and Adam Oates are also ahead, due to their overall careers and individual accomplishments. All of these guys (except for Esa) are in the Hall of Fame.

Right now I'd say he's about top 30 all-time, if his career were to end today. There are too many great players ahead of him but he's already a future Hall-of-Famer with his two Harts (only 19 people have as many or more) and three Art Rosses (only 8 players have as many or more) but his story hasn't yet been written enough to determine his final standing as of yet.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Half-a-decade as the consensus best Regular-Season player in the league-

but with half the career of Forsberg/Lindros.

Lack of post-season glory is an issue- there isn't even a deep run we can point to, yet.

We now have a 32-team league... so the dimensions of the canvas are different. It's easier to make multiple deep runs in an earlier time, when the league was much, much smaller. Instinctually, this means that we risk marking off too many demerits for playoff failures. Conversely, maybe we don't give enough credit for multiple runs & Cups in this more-crowded-than-ever field.

I'd like to see more of what other players of this era do with these curiously-shaped blank-pages. Speaking for myself, it just doesn't feel right to have him ahead of Lindros/Forsberg, just yet.

 

[VanIslander]

A 4-time 1st-team all star who was 1st in NHL regular season points 3 times and 2nd two other times. And no playoff accomplishments of note.

Meh.

He ain't no Gretzky, Yzerman or Trottier. Heck, is he a Boucher, Schmidt or Bentley?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

32nd

 

[Yozhik v tumane]

He's barely in the top ten of the all-time Edmonton Oilers, right now.
He's not ahead of Kevin Lowe or Glenn Anderson or Messier, who have six Cups, or Esa Tikkanen, who has five. Gretzky, Fuhr, Kurri, Coffey, Chris Pronger, and Adam Oates are also ahead, due to their overall careers and individual accomplishments. All of these guys (except for Esa) are in the Hall of Fame.
Right now I'd say he's about top 30 all-time, if his career were to end today. There are too many great players ahead of him but he's already a future Hall-of-Famer with his two Harts (only 19 people have as many or more) and three Art Rosses (only 8 players have as many or more) but his story hasn't yet been written enough to determine his final standing as of yet.

I struggle to follow your reasoning here. He’s a top 30 player all time, however not ahead of Lowe and Tikkanen?

I think you’re having several different discussions simultaneously here. I guess it’s fair to make the case that McDavid’s legacy as an Oiler isn’t greater than Kevin Lowe’s if you value team success, but then what do you mean by adding Adam Oates? He played all of 60 games for the Oilers posting 18 points and missed the playoffs before retiring for good: he was a legendary player when he signed for them but his star had faded markedly. I don’t understand in which debate both Adam Oates and Kevin Lowe surpasses McDavid’s current status. If you value Oates’ longevity then sure, perhaps you might consider him more accomplished than McDavid, however Oates probably does not belong in a conversation for the top 30 players of all time. If you’re cup counting, then Oates has won as many rings as McDavid.

I’m sorry, I just got a severe string of hang ups from reading this post.

 

[wetcoast]

I’d hesitate to put him in the 30s but can appreciate peak guys doing so.

All I know is that he is at a level higher than Dickie Moore so he is ahead of him….maybe somewhere in the 70s or 80s.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I’d hesitate to put him in the 30s but can appreciate peak guys doing so.

All I know is that he is at a level higher than Dickie Moore so he is ahead of him….maybe somewhere in the 70s or 80s.

Do you really think there have been 70 players better than McDavid?

 

[wetcoast]

Do you really think there have been 70 players better than McDavid?

Not at their peaks no but overall impacts, peaks, primes, career, international and playoffs maybe.

My list isn’t set in stone but is rather fluid as different factors might be more important one day compared to the next.

The only thing that I’m sure of is that McDavid is tracking to the top 10-15 ish very quickly maybe even higher.

 

[daver]

Could we say he definitely had a Top 5 start to his career after six seasons?

What about Top 5 (or better) first six seasons starting at age 18?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Could we say he definitely had a Top 5 start to his career after six seasons?

What about Top 5 (or better) first six seasons starting at age 18?

Could be.

 

[jigglysquishy]

If you are specifically looking at first six years in the league.

Gretzky- 6 Hart, 5 Art Ross, 5 1st AS, 1 2nd AS
Howe - 1 Hart, 2 Art Ross, 2 1st AS, 2 2nd AS
Lemieux- 1 Hart, 2 Art Ross, 2 1st AS, 2 2nd AS
Orr - 3 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 5 1st AS, 1 2nd AS. 5 Norris

McDavid - 2 Hart, 3 Art Ross, 4 1st AS

Crosby - 1 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 1 1st AS, 2 2nd AS
Ovechkin - 2 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 5 1st AS, 1 2nd AS
Jagr - 0 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 2 1st AS
Bobby Hull - 0 Hart, 2 Art Ross, 2 1st AS, 1 2nd AS
Beliveau - 1 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 3 1st AS

Just looking at regular season, McDavid is only behind Gretzky and Orr for first six seasons in the league.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

In terms of overall career, how does he compare to Apps and Malkin?

Those are the go-to guys for high peak, small number of elite seasons, mostly offense centers.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

In terms of overall career, how does he compare to Apps and Malkin?

Those are the go-to guys for high peak, small number of elite seasons, mostly offense centers.

This may be the case if one chooses to view the list as greatest overall careers.

Some may view it as simply best (or greatest) players.

 

[The Macho King]

In terms of overall career, how does he compare to Apps and Malkin?

Those are the go-to guys for high peak, small number of elite seasons, mostly offense centers.

I would say he has to be behind Dionne. Less careee value, same playoff knock at the moment, high peak.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I would say he has to be behind Dionne. Less careee value, same playoff knock at the moment, high peak.

McDavid's peak is higher than Dionne's, but it's a worthwhile comparison for sure. You might be right.

 

[The Macho King]

McDavid's peak is higher than Dionne's, but it's a worthwhile comparison for sure. You might be right.

Take away Gretzky and Dionne has an incredibly impressive peak of 2 AR, multiple other top 2 finishes. Not as dominant as McDavids peak maybe (although contextualizing this past season is going to be a challenge for a long time), but if its lower it's not by much.

 

[JackSlater]

This may be the case if one chooses to view the list as greatest overall careers.

Some may view it as simply best (or greatest) players.

That's sort of the question whenever these things come up. Are there even 20 players in history who were actually better than McDavid? Maybe, probably not. Is he in the top 100 for career value? Almost certainly not. Trophy haul is looking nice - big factor? Does adding say, three 3rd place scoring finishes plus a 6th, a 7th, and two 9ths plus some other good finishes outside of the top ten make McDavid a significantly better player all time? Things like this seem to matter to people to varying degrees. I only really care about one of those listed factors, but it's also the trickiest one so it's complicated.

Anyway, I'd find it difficult to justify McDavid on the low end of a top 100 players of all time list.

 

[seventieslord]

Some really widely divergent opinions in here. I like a lot of the answers here. A hybrid of Lindros, Forsberg, Malkin, Apps, Dionne sounds about right. But where to rank him based on that? I think about 70th...?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

That's sort of the question whenever these things come up. Are there even 20 players in history who were actually better than McDavid? Maybe, probably not. Is he in the top 100 for career value? Almost certainly not. Trophy haul is looking nice - big factor? Does adding say, three 3rd place scoring finishes plus a 6th, a 7th, and two 9ths plus some other good finishes outside of the top ten make McDavid a significantly better player all time? Things like this seem to matter to people to varying degrees. I only really care about one of those listed factors, but it's also the trickiest one so it's complicated.

Anyway, I'd find it difficult to justify McDavid on the low end of a top 100 players of all time list.

I find that to be a telling statement.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Based on what we do for these lists, he's probably in the 40 to 75 area, at a glance...he's off to a whale of a start obviously...

 

[VanIslander]

MARGINAL top 100.

Seriously.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Some really widely divergent opinions in here. I like a lot of the answers here. A hybrid of Lindros, Forsberg, Malkin, Apps, Dionne sounds about right. But where to tank him based on that? I think about 70th...?

I think you'll get equally divergent answers for that due to the way everyone values peak/prime/career differently.

(I'm big on peak, so I'd rank him fairly high already.)