If no UFA then which RD is the trade target?

[cupcrazyman]

I'll take Pietrangelo, Tanev or Josh Manson.

I've been saying we need 3 new dmen on the roster so this works for me.

 

[The Iceman]

I hate to say it but I would look to trade Reilly to solve our RHD black hole. Now the trade target is #1 RHDs.
With Reilly gone our LHD remains Muzzin, Dermott, Lehtonen, Sandin, Rosen, Marincin.
The team could then look to sign a Dillon, Borowiecki to add LHD depth.

 

[Mentat]

I hate to say it but I would look to trade Reilly to solve our RHD black hole. Now the trade target is #1 RHDs.
With Reilly gone our LHD remains Muzzin, Dermott, Lehtonen, Sandin, Rosen, Marincin.
The team could then look to sign a Dillon, Borowiecki to add LHD depth.

You want to trade one of our best defenders, on a friendly AAV contract... to solve our defensive whoes?
Makes as much sense as udders on a fish.

 

[ToneDog]

You want to trade one of our best defenders, on a friendly AAV contract... to solve our defensive whoes?
Makes as much sense as udders on a fish.

This morning heard Mirtle in the Athletic put the percentage of Rielly being traded at 0.1%. Andy was at 65%. Perhaps somebody can come up with the full list??

 

[RoadWarrior]

I hate to say it but I would look to trade Reilly to solve our RHD black hole. Now the trade target is #1 RHDs.
With Reilly gone our LHD remains Muzzin, Dermott, Lehtonen, Sandin, Rosen, Marincin.
The team could then look to sign a Dillon, Borowiecki to add LHD depth.

LOL. The whole point of acquiring a RHD is to find a partner for Rielly. Trading Rielly who is on a bargain contract to bring in another top pair D is a completely lateral move and will not help the team.

For reference see the Tavares acquisition and subsequent Kadri trade.

 

[qqaz]

I don't think any of Parayko, Ekblad, Pesce, or Hamilton will actually be traded. So I'll leave them off the list.

My preference is Savard or Manson. Those guys are the right fit.

Then I'd consider Ristolainen or Larsson. Not perfect options. But both could end up being a bargain.

Do not want Dumba.

 

[realgoodleafs]

#1 is Gardiner with the occasional big hit.
#2 has a reputation he is living off of from 3 seasons ago.

No thank you.

Are you saying Manson isn't a top 4 dman and wouldn't make the team better? He isn't paid that much.

Barrie had a good season before he joined Toronto and look how that ended up. Manson could be a good fit.

 

[Jmo89]

Ristolainen... Why?

Because at 25 years old I think he still has plenty of potential. I love his 6'4, 220+lb frame and I'm hoping that he'll do what Jay Bouwmeester did. Take longer than expected to become a a very effective defender, but start to really figure is out around 26-27 years old and prove to be an excellent defenseman for the next 7-8 years.

I think Risto simply needs a fresh start, in an organization that isn't a dumpster fire.

If AP or Tanev don't come to fruition, I'd like to add Ristolainen and a Demelo or Savard type for the second pairing.

Something along the lines of....

Reilly / Ristolainen
Muzzin / Demelo or Savard
Dermott / Holl
Sandin

At 5.4 million for 2 more years, I'm more than ok with that cap hit.

Obviously I love the idea of the Leafs going hard after Parayko if Pietrangelo re-signs in St. Louis as well.

I agree with most of your post except that I think he would do best on the second pair rather than the first.

 

[Puckstuff]

I've been saying we need 3 new dmen on the roster so this works for me.

I'm against trading Marner at basically all costs but just for fun if they are going to give up a big 4 forward and I had no choice I'd move Marner for Pesce and a 1st. Pesce is one of the best shutdown RD in the entire NHL. Demelo is a good defensive RD as well bring him in too. Sign Pie as well. Then replace Marner with a Max Domi type player using our picks so you still have Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Domi (or a player like Domi) bring in Josh Anderson for a 2nd. That forward group with the best defence in the league

Morgan Rielly - Brett Pesce
Jake Muzzin - Alex Pietrangelo
Travis Dermott - Dylan Demelo

 

[Zybalto]

What exactly are we looking for in a RHD?

Stay at home D? It seems most people want a defensively-minded Dman who can also PK.

What makes a good stay at home D? How do you judge one?

 

[francis246]

I think you have to try and get Ekblad or Risto - they are the best options in terms of cap and potential and both have low value at the moment. Best case scenario would be Paryako or Pesce.

 

[Zybalto]

Pesce had some pretty brutal 5v5 defensive numbers this year would be the main worry for me. Maybe they were piling too much on him this year?

 

[Zybalto]

I know Pesce bring more than just D to the table as he is really good with transition and plays solid PK but....

Out of the 144 dmen who played 800+ 5v5 minutes this year:

xGA/60 REL: +.52 (144th best out of 144)
GA/60 REL: +.53 (120th best out of 144)

Those are just ugly man....

 

[Fogelhund]

Are you saying Manson isn't a top 4 dman and wouldn't make the team better? He isn't paid that much.

Barrie had a good season before he joined Toronto and look how that ended up. Manson could be a good fit.

kb hates Manson.

To be fair, many people rated Manson based upon a singular 37 point season, which really isn't a fair measuring stick. He isn't a 37 point guy, except through piling up a bunch of secondary assists (17 secondary assists that year). He's a complimentary guy, who hits hard, and plays a tough defensive game. Anyone who rated him based upon 37 points, was misjudging him. The Ducks were terrible last year, and he was heavily depended on defensively, and against strong competition. There were times last year, where he didn't look as good defensively, as he had in the past. I'd suggest he'd bounce back, in a more favourable situation. He also had some injuries last year, including an issue with his shoulders, which he claims the time off, is helping him deal with.

HockeyBuzz.com - Ben Shelley - Reviewing the season: Josh Manson

 

[Fogelhund]

I think you have to try and get Ekblad or Risto - they are the best options in terms of cap and potential and both have low value at the moment. Best case scenario would be Paryako or Pesce.

The challenge with Risto, is he really hasn't been very good defensively. You are obtaining him, hoping that you can change his game, or it matures into being good defensively. So far, he's not far off a physical version of Barrie. I'm not sure if that's a good gamble or not.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Are you saying Manson isn't a top 4 dman and wouldn't make the team better? He isn't paid that much.

Barrie had a good season before he joined Toronto and look how that ended up. Manson could be a good fit.

Manson would be a dramatic upgrade over anything we had on our right side this past year. I kind of have to laugh at the people saying he's living off his rep from a couple seasons ago, if he played for Toronto this past year he'd have become an instant fan favorite and Leafs fans would probably label him a good #2D with the way players get overrated around here.

 

[Crosscrease14]

I'm against trading Marner at basically all costs but just for fun if they are going to give up a big 4 forward and I had no choice I'd move Marner for Pesce and a 1st. Pesce is one of the best shutdown RD in the entire NHL. Demelo is a good defensive RD as well bring him in too. Sign Pie as well. Then replace Marner with a Max Domi type player using our picks so you still have Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, Domi (or a player like Domi) bring in Josh Anderson for a 2nd. That forward group with the best defence in the league

Morgan Rielly - Brett Pesce
Jake Muzzin - Alex Pietrangelo
Travis Dermott - Dylan Demelo

Capologists are mad

 

[Fogelhund]

Manson would be a dramatic upgrade over anything we had on our right side this past year. I kind of have to laugh at the people saying he's living off his rep from a couple seasons ago, if he played for Toronto this past year he'd have become an instant fan favorite and Leafs fans would probably label him a good #2D with the way players get overrated around here.

Rielly has looked his best, either beside Tanev at the WCH, or with Hainsey... These types of guys, including Manson, are exactly what would be a great compliment to Mo. Manson in particular, because of his physicality, which we need. As I said above, those talking about his rep, are talking more about a single season of high points, on a team that played very well. He's not going to live up to someone expecting 37 points, nor do we need that. He doesn't need to be a true #2D, just a guy who lets Mo be Mo, and helps in the D zone.

 

[Once]

This isn't a slight at Dubas, but he has to hit a homer if he makes a trade for a quality RHD. The Kadri trade was necessary given the circumstances but in retrospect the trade was a flop.

If you're going for a quality RHD you target Pesce or Parayko. If we have to give up Willy or Liljegren/1st/Johnsson/etc then so be it. We need more stability on the backend and it has to happen this offseason.

 

[Ifittex il Verita]

Rielly has looked his best, either beside Tanev at the WCH, or with Hainsey... These types of guys, including Manson, are exactly what would be a great compliment to Mo. Manson in particular, because of his physicality, which we need. As I said above, those talking about his rep, are talking more about a single season of high points, on a team that played very well. He's not going to live up to someone expecting 37 points, nor do we need that. He doesn't need to be a true #2D, just a guy who lets Mo be Mo, and helps in the D zone.

In a perfect dream world - trade one of Marner/Nylander for significant future pieces, sign Pietrangelo, trade for Manson out of Anaheim.

Muzzin-Pietrangelo
Rielly-Manson
Sandin/Dermott-Holl/Lehtonen

A top pairing that could flat out dominate matchups against other team's top players and a great 2nd pairing with Rielly having probably his best partner ever. Finally for once the Leafs can actually roll out a legitimate defense. If we're just going to sit around and waste the Matthews/Tavares era without ever trying to put a good defense behind them, then f*** this team.

 

[IrishInOntario]

I agree with most of your post except that I think he would do best on the second pair rather than the first.

If that is indeed the case, then Toronto can't make that trade... Their #1 goal needs to be finding a long term partner for Reilly and adding a 5.4 million dollar defenseman to your second pairing gets you no closer to that. You can't spend 11M on your second pairing and still bring in a legitimate partner for Reilly.

Unless you want to do something like...

To Toronto
Rickard Rackell
Josh Manson
1st round pick

To Anaheim
William Nylander
Travis Dermott
2nd or 3rd round pick

Followed by...

To Toronto
Rasmus Ristolainen

To Buffalo
Andreas Johnson
1st round pick
Prospect

You'd wind up with...

Reilly / Manson
Muzzin / Ristolainen
Lehtonen / Holl

 

[gabeliscious]

Manson would be a dramatic upgrade over anything we had on our right side this past year. I kind of have to laugh at the people saying he's living off his rep from a couple seasons ago, if he played for Toronto this past year he'd have become an instant fan favorite and Leafs fans would probably label him a good #2D with the way players get overrated around here.

not sure why but I always got a Komisarek vibe from Manson. Sure he would be better than what we have but what do we have? At the moment we have bottom pairing guy in Holl, moonlighting as a second pair defenseman, no top pair defenseman and lehtonen as a rookie on his off side or another rookie in Lily. The cost of acquisition would very likely be cost prohibitive for Manson. I would trade Johnsson + or Kerfoot + but talk of Nylander is pretty laughable as is the 15th oa pick.

The Leafs construction is very unbalanced in the sense we have either super high-end pieces like Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Nylander and then deck chair that can be shuffled but ultimately every team has equivalent like Johnsson, Hyma, Kerfoot.

The other problem is teams are not rushing to trade what we need - top pair potential RD. We just don't have the right combination of assets or willingness to move what we have imo. Since we likely cannot trade for what we need if Pietrangelo is not possible, there are second/third tier RD available via UFA that will be cheaper and only cost cap space.

Hypothetically, what if we were able to sign Tanev and Brodie? Maybe having both of them makes us better than having Pietrangelo?

Rielly-Tanev
Muzzin-Brodie
Dermott-Holl

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Manson and Tanev improve our right side significantly

Muzzin - Manson
Rielly - Tanev
Sandin /Lehtonen /Dermott- Holl /Dermott/Liljg

 

[Sypher04]

Conventional thinking would say that we should target a trade, even despite it costing assets, as any UFAs are likely to be overpayments due to teams bidding against each other and driving up the price. That said, this year is anything but conventional, and given the cap situation league wide and teams trying to reduce payroll it seems like those mid tier defensemen could be much better UFA value than they typically would be. For that reason I would be included to fully explore that market before making a move with our youth and draft picks. I do understand though there is a cap component we need to ship out as well, so that complicated things. So from that perspective I can understand a trade preference

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If that is indeed the case, then Toronto can't make that trade... Their #1 goal needs to be finding a long term partner for Reilly and adding a 5.4 million dollar defenseman to your second pairing gets you no closer to that. You can't spend 11M on your second pairing and still bring in a legitimate partner for Reilly.

Unless you want to do something like...

To Toronto
Rickard Rackell
Josh Manson
1st round pick

To Anaheim
William Nylander
Travis Dermott
2nd or 3rd round pick

Followed by...

To Toronto
Rasmus Ristolainen

To Buffalo
Andreas Johnson
1st round pick
Prospect

You'd wind up with...

Reilly / Manson
Muzzin / Ristolainen
Lehtonen / Holl

You really think big.

Hard to see any of this in the No Trade NHL.

I've never heard of an NHL team getting two top 4 RD in an offseason.

Dubas has failed to get one so far. I dont see that changing.

Every team needs RD, except maybe 2.