Blue Jays Discussion: If a Blue Jay falls in a Tavares/Kawhi forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[ChurchOfAlfie]

Who says trading Osuna is even to appease the fans, anyways? Maybe the Jays want to build a certain culture within the team, and "getting arrested for domestic assault" isn't part of their vision?

 

[Advanced stats]

If osuna is traded, I will be pissed...

It's already a given you won't get full value for him, what's the point?

 

[AllDay28]

I hope if someone pushes your mom/sister/daughter down a flight of stairs (hypothetically), you dont share the same "i hope he comes back and pitches" mentality...

 

[Melo Meds]

I think it's ok to condemn the action and say that, regardless of where he comes from and what the conditions are on average, he is a human with higher-level thinking abilities at the end of the day and does know that beating a defenceless loved one until she's bloody is wrong. However, that doesn't mean that taking into consideration factors that help explain the commission of the act = condoning the act. There's a difference between an excuse and an explanation.

None of us is around the day-to-day operations of the Blue Jays and none of us knows Roberto Osuna personally. We will never know the level of contrition that he has shown or will show, and further, we don't even know the details of the incident right now (let's assume he's guilty for the purpose of this post). We're a society that believes in redemption and rehabilitation. Osuna is going to pitch elsewhere again. We could take a moral stand and trade him for pennies on the dollar, but for what? Do we have a higher moral duty than the acquiring team to keep him off our roster? And where does it go from there, do we immediately release/trade any player in the system who commits a crime? The roster move would just be for show otherwise.

I'd say the Jays have the duty to ensure Roberto is provided with all of the resources he needs to successfully rehabilitate. If he doesn't show the requisite contrition and commitment to rehabilitation, then that's a different matter and perhaps he should be moved. Because, for one reason, he becomes a liability.

I've also heard the argument that someone who commits a violent crime should relinquish the privilege of playing as a professional athlete, and enjoying the luxuries that come from such a job. That means the person can still be rehabilitated but isn't kept from earning a living. I can see the logic in this and even agree with it on some level, as I too of course find that act reprehensible. But there are two problems: 1) MLB will never approve such a policy, meaning the original team will be standing on that hill alone. 2) That's a form of vigilante justice and I'm not fully comfortable with the moral implications of that either. When we put our trust in the justice system, we relinquish our ability to mete out our own justice.

Great post.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I hope if someone pushes your mom/sister/daughter down a flight of stairs (hypothetically), you dont share the same "i hope he comes back and pitches" mentality...

Osuna pushed her down a flight of stairs?

 

[Jozay]

I hope if someone pushes your mom/sister/daughter down a flight of stairs (hypothetically), you dont share the same "i hope he comes back and pitches" mentality...

I mean, if they're as good as Osuna...shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

 

[Puckstuff]

Is there any chance the Jays take a run at Bryce harper? A middle of the order bat, 25 years old outfielder to go along with VLAD junior in the heart of the order that plays outfield is basically the biggest team need? It fills so many needs. Uptick in T.V ratings, Superstar for the rebuild, Outfielder and middle of the order bat

3.Vlad Guerrero Jr.
4.Bryce harper
5.Josh Donaldson

Yes please

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I mean, if they're as good as Osuna...shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

 

[Advanced stats]

I hope if someone pushes your mom/sister/daughter down a flight of stairs (hypothetically), you dont share the same "i hope he comes back and pitches" mentality...

If he or she would 1 - be convicted, and 2 - serve the time and punishment, than yes I'd hope he comes back to pitch. Absolutely 100%.

 

[Melo Meds]

Is there any chance the Jays take a run at Bryce harper? A middle of the order bat, 25 year old outfielder to go along that VLAD junior in the heart of the order that plays outfield is basically the biggest team need?

3.Vlad Guerrero Jr.
4.Bryce harper
5.Josh Donaldson

Yes please

I doubt it, I feel like the way he swings at the ball hes going to blow out a shoulder eventually. Going to get overpaid and get a record contract. I also don't like his consistently season-season. Could see his contract getting ugly after a few years.

 

[Eyedea]

Is there any chance the Jays take a run at Bryce harper? A middle of the order bat, 25 year old outfielder to go along that VLAD junior in the heart of the order that plays outfield is basically the biggest team need? It fills so many needs. Uptick in T.V ratings, Superstar for the rebuild, Outfielder and middle of the order bat

3.Vlad Guerrero Jr.
4.Bryce harper
5.Josh Donaldson

Yes please

Would be interesting if they target a major free agent to join the youth (like the Cubs with Lester) but I’m not sure they’ll ever be in that playing field. Maybe AJ Pollock.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Thanks, I’m quite clear on the law. He didn’t necessarily hit her, but he still did something that scared her to the point of telling the police. You seem to be under the the assumption that it’s easy pursue criminal charges against your significant other.

She called the police?

Also, I want this same kind of energy for the Austin Watson situation.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think it's ok to condemn the action and say that, regardless of where he comes from and what the conditions are on average, he is a human with higher-level thinking abilities at the end of the day and does know that beating a defenceless loved one until she's bloody is wrong. However, that doesn't mean that taking into consideration factors that help explain the commission of the act = condoning the act. There's a difference between an excuse and an explanation.

None of us is around the day-to-day operations of the Blue Jays and none of us knows Roberto Osuna personally. We will never know the level of contrition that he has shown or will show, and further, we don't even know the details of the incident right now (let's assume he's guilty for the purpose of this post). We're a society that believes in redemption and rehabilitation. Osuna is going to pitch elsewhere again. We could take a moral stand and trade him for pennies on the dollar, but for what? Do we have a higher moral duty than the acquiring team to keep him off our roster? And where does it go from there, do we immediately release/trade any player in the system who commits a crime? The roster move would just be for show otherwise.

I'd say the Jays have the duty to ensure Roberto is provided with all of the resources he needs to successfully rehabilitate. If he doesn't show the requisite contrition and commitment to rehabilitation, then that's a different matter and perhaps he should be moved. Because, for one reason, he becomes a liability.

I've also heard the argument that someone who commits a violent crime should relinquish the privilege of playing as a professional athlete, and enjoying the luxuries that come from such a job. That means the person can still be rehabilitated but isn't kept from earning a living. I can see the logic in this and even agree with it on some level, as I too of course find that act reprehensible. But there are two problems: 1) MLB will never approve such a policy, meaning the original team will be standing on that hill alone. 2) That's a form of vigilante justice and I'm not fully comfortable with the moral implications of that either. When we put our trust in the justice system, we relinquish our ability to mete out our own justice.

If needed, rather than trade him, why don’t the Jays put him on the DL and let him get some help. I say this because, if I recall, he had some anxiety around the birth of his child last year, so maybe he has some behavioural health disorder. I don’t know, but it might be a better option than giving up on him.

 

[BlueForever75]

Did the MLB lift his suspension?

He's pitching in the minors. And is eligible to come up with the big club in August. So I would assume that is a yes

 

[Nineteen67]

She called the police?

Also, I want this same kind of energy for the Austin Watson situation.

Not condoning what Watson did, but if they are similar situations, did MLB go a little far suspending him 75 games?

 

[BlueForever75]

Thanks, I’m quite clear on the law. He didn’t necessarily hit her, but he still did something that scared her to the point of telling the police. You seem to be under the the assumption that it’s easy pursue criminal charges against your significant other.

Very easy. Are you aware that even if your neighbor calls the police because they hear yelling, and they come to your door. Even if your spouse is fine and doesn't say a word about laying charges. The police can cuff your spouse based on their discretion of threat and haul you away!!!! That's how easy it is.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Not condoning what Watson did, but if they are similar situations, did MLB go a little far suspending him 75 games?

Not in this environment.

MLB suspends Padres P Jose Torres 100 games for domestic violence arrest allegedly involving gun

Jose Torres got the entire season for essentially doing what Chapman did. Never touched his partner, apparently.

Very easy. Are you aware that even if your neighbor calls the police because they hear yelling, and they come to your door. Even if your spouse is fine and doesn't say a word about laying charges. The police can cuff your spouse based on their discretion of threat and haul you away!!!! That's how easy it is.

This is true.

 

[theaub]

Osuna pushed her down a flight of stairs?

Reporter #1: Roberto, do you feel remorse for your crime?
Roberto Osuna: Oh, yes. Believe me, my god, if I could turn back the clock on my mother's stair-pushing, I would certainly, reconsider it.

 

[BlueForever75]

I hope if someone pushes your mom/sister/daughter down a flight of stairs (hypothetically), you dont share the same "i hope he comes back and pitches" mentality...

Did Osuna push his partner down the stairs??? First I heard of this.

Again like I said, domestic violence covers a large spectrum. A spectrum that should be covered for both men and women because domestically they are one. But it never happens and isn't treated equally. If there is some facts that are released to the public that are showing physical harm to a woman I will revisit my stance on this situation because I do not condone physical violence against women. But if its anything outside of that, like a yelling match, or punched hole in the wall, or throwing of furniture or household items that lets call a spade a spade sometimes people lose their heads. I'm sorry if it means some woman got scared and this is what Osuna is being charged for!!!!! The guy needs counselling yes, but isn't a monster like people are making him out to be.

 

[Eyedea]

He's pitching in the minors. And is eligible to come up with the big club in August. So I would assume that is a yes

They suspended him for 75 games which was retroactive to early May. He’s eligible per the CBA to go through a rehab stint before his suspension is over.

 

[Puckstuff]

Would be interesting if they target a major free agent to join the youth (like the Cubs with Lester) but I’m not sure they’ll ever be in that playing field. Maybe AJ Pollock.

I haven't been following closely; but it seems they have a plethora of options and competiton in the infield and for DH but they have essentially nothing in the outfield. If they go out and get pollock and Harper type of talent for the outfield maybe this team could be elite in the future.

1. Pollock
2. Harper
3. Guerrero jr
4. Donaldson
5. Smoak
6. Gurriel Jr.
7. Drury
8. Martin
9. Hernandez

With Bichette and Alford knocking on the door. If they go out and get scrubs to fill the outfield it would be hard for me to be optimistic:

1. Gurriel Jr.
2. Donaldson
3. Guerrero Jr.
4. Smoak
5. Hernandez
6. Drury
7. Scrub outfielder
8. Scrub outfielder
9. Martin

Is this a fair analysis?

 

[le_sean]

Very easy. Are you aware that even if your neighbor calls the police because they hear yelling, and they come to your door. Even if your spouse is fine and doesn't say a word about laying charges. The police can cuff your spouse based on their discretion of threat and haul you away!!!! That's how easy it is.

Does that usually come with a restraining order like Osuna currently has?

You’re very ignorant if you think the situation you just talked about is some kind of regular occurrence. The police aren’t going to bother bringing an individual to jail because of simple yelling. If an individual is going to jail it’s because when the police arrived, that person continued to act violent to a point where the police think he’s an actual threat. The law favours men, don’t kid yourself. It also heavily favours the rich and famous, like Osuna.

 

[Discoverer]

I haven't been following closely; but it seems they have a plethora of options and competiton in the infield and for DH but they have essentially nothing in the outfield. If they go out and get pollock and Harper type of talent for the outfield maybe this team could be elite in the future.

1. Pollock
2. Harper
3. Guerrero jr
4. Donaldson
5. Smoak
6. Gurriel Jr.
7. Drury
8. Martin
9. Hernandez

With Bichette and Alford knocking on the door. If they go out and get scrubs to fill the outfield it would be hard for me to be optimistic:

1. Gurriel Jr.
2. Donaldson
3. Guerrero Jr.
4. Smoak
5. Hernandez
6. Drury
7. Scrub outfielder
8. Scrub outfielder
9. Martin

Is this a fair analysis?

Uh... yeah, I guess. If the Jays sign three of the best available free agents, they'll be able to field a much better team than if they don't. Can't really argue against that.

 

[Puckstuff]

Uh... yeah, I guess. If the Jays sign three of the best available free agents, they'll be able to field a much better team than if they don't. Can't really argue against that.

So basically if they address the outfield properly we can win but if they cheap out we're going to be average. Good to know!

 

[Mach85]

Does that usually come with a restraining order like Osuna currently has?

You’re very ignorant if you think the situation you just talked about is some kind of regular occurrence. The police aren’t going to bother bringing an individual to jail because of simple yelling. If an individual is going to jail it’s because when the police arrived, that person continued to act violent to a point where the police think he’s an actual threat. The law favours men, don’t kid yourself. It also heavily favours the rich and famous, like Osuna.

Oh, young Padawan. Men have historically had it better than women in most areas of society, and still do in some, but the legal system is one place where men are clearly and demonstrably at a disadvantage (alimony laws that don't reflect gender equality in the workplace, longer sentences for men on the same acts). But you have to do your own research to get past the media and journalistic biases, especially with "hot button" issues like domestic violence (or the wage gap, for that matter).

Even for something that is traditionally seen as an offence in which women were at a disadvantage...the times, they are a changin'. Now, men are both MORE likely than women to be assaulted by their domestic partner, but are also MORE likely to need medical attention: CDC Study: More Men than Women Victims of Partner Abuse