Blue Jays Discussion: If a Blue Jay falls in a Tavares/Kawhi forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[BlueForever75]

Does that usually come with a restraining order like Osuna currently has?

You’re very ignorant if you think the situation you just talked about is some kind of regular occurrence. The police aren’t going to bother bringing an individual to jail because of simple yelling. If an individual is going to jail it’s because when the police arrived, that person continued to act violent to a point where the police think he’s an actual threat. The law favours men, don’t kid yourself. It also heavily favours the rich and famous, like Osuna.

Yes it does come with a restraining order, and I will let you know that 40% of people brought in to your local police station (both women and men) are brought in exactly for what I explained earlier. I'm not ignorant, I'm educated something you should get for yourself prior to making accusations without knowing anything about the law and how it works. The law doesn't favor men, its quite the reverse. 95% of domestic violence charges are laid against men. Survey's have proven that if men called the police as much as women did when it came to domestic violence, the split could be as high as 70% in women being charged in the whole scheme of things. Problem is men have a spine and done call the police because they have an ego to uphold, and to be honest police would rarely treat calls like women make from a man the same. Its fact not fiction, its not me being ignorant its me stating facts that are well known.

 

[Mach85]

Yes it does come with a restraining order, and I will let you know that 40% of people brought in to your local police station (both women and men) are brought in exactly for what I explained earlier. I'm not ignorant, I'm educated something you should get for yourself prior to making accusations without knowing anything about the law and how it works. The law doesn't favor men, its quite the reverse. 95% of domestic violence charges are laid against men. Survey's have proven that if men called the police as much as women did when it came to domestic violence, the split could be as high as 70% in women being charged in the whole scheme of things. Problem is men have a spine and done call the police because they have an ego to uphold, and to be honest police would rarely treat calls like women make from a man the same. Its fact not fiction, its not me being ignorant its me stating facts that are well known.

You and I are in agreement on the prevalence of assault on men by women vs on women by men, but the first part of the bolded is BS and irresponsible to perpetuate. No one needs to remain quiet on assault. An abuser that gets away with it is just an abuser that's likely to do it to someone else. The second part of the bolded is more valid; resources aren't as readily available for men who are victims, and many also feel they won't be taken seriously.

 

[BlueForever75]

You and I are in agreement on the prevalence of assault on men by women vs on women by men, but the first part of the bolded is BS and irresponsible to perpetuate. No one needs to remain quiet on assault. An abuser that gets away with it is just an abuser that's likely to do it to someone else. The second part of the bolded is more valid; resources aren't as readily available for men who are victims, and many also feel they won't be taken seriously.

Your right I took that first part of the statement too far. It isn't right for anyone to not report a domestic violence situation even if a man. But the truth of the matter is, a man generally laughs it off and goes out for some air. Unfortunately that's what it is. Maybe men do need to call out their wives and girlfriends out more when they lose their s#*$ so that they too can have the respect needed in a relationship. Lol.

But for some to say men have the upper hand in domestic violence is hilarious. They definitely have no clue what they are talking about.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Does that usually come with a restraining order like Osuna currently has?

You’re very ignorant if you think the situation you just talked about is some kind of regular occurrence. The police aren’t going to bother bringing an individual to jail because of simple yelling. If an individual is going to jail it’s because when the police arrived, that person continued to act violent to a point where the police think he’s an actual threat. The law favours men, don’t kid yourself. It also heavily favours the rich and famous, like Osuna.

With all due respect, the bolded is not true. And that statement is made independent of the Osuna situation.

 

[Puckstuff]

Yes it does come with a restraining order, and I will let you know that 40% of people brought in to your local police station (both women and men) are brought in exactly for what I explained earlier. I'm not ignorant, I'm educated something you should get for yourself prior to making accusations without knowing anything about the law and how it works. The law doesn't favor men, its quite the reverse. 95% of domestic violence charges are laid against men. Survey's have proven that if men called the police as much as women did when it came to domestic violence, the split could be as high as 70% in women being charged in the whole scheme of things. Problem is men have a spine and done call the police because they have an ego to uphold, and to be honest police would rarely treat calls like women make from a man the same. Its fact not fiction, its not me being ignorant its me stating facts that are well known.

This is why MGTOW is growing exponentially. The law and social issues of the sex's is actually a really big problem and concern especially in relation to the break up of the family

 

[theaub]

So basically if they address the outfield properly we can win but if they cheap out we're going to be average. Good to know!

Ah yes, the classic 'if the Jays don't drop $300M in the free agent market they're cheaping out' argument.

 

[Discoverer]

So basically if they address the outfield properly we can win but if they cheap out we're going to be average. Good to know!

There's a pretty broad range of perfectly acceptable possibilities for addressing the outfield between "spend $400 million on two outfielders players" and "sign a couple scrubs".

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Yes it does come with a restraining order, and I will let you know that 40% of people brought in to your local police station (both women and men) are brought in exactly for what I explained earlier. I'm not ignorant, I'm educated something you should get for yourself prior to making accusations without knowing anything about the law and how it works. The law doesn't favor men, its quite the reverse. 95% of domestic violence charges are laid against men. Survey's have proven that if men called the police as much as women did when it came to domestic violence, the split could be as high as 70% in women being charged in the whole scheme of things. Problem is men have a spine and done call the police because they have an ego to uphold, and to be honest police would rarely treat calls like women make from a man the same. Its fact not fiction, its not me being ignorant its me stating facts that are well known.

There needs to be more context with those numbers. Such as how many of those matters either involve the matter never getting to trial? How many eventually get dropped entirely? These matters I am talking about with the man being taken into custody. We need to keep in perspective that it's a lot easier for a woman to make a call to the police and get them to show up on your doorstep than it is to actually go through the legal process. For the woman to go on the stand and answer questions from a defence lawyer.

 

[Puckstuff]

There's a pretty broad range of perfectly acceptable possibilities for addressing the outfield between "spend $400 million on two outfielders players" and "sign a couple scrubs".

No doubt about that.

Is it accurate to say there is a strong correlation between a high payroll (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs) and winning?

 

[zeke]

There's a pretty broad range of perfectly acceptable possibilities for addressing the outfield between "spend $400 million on two outfielders players" and "sign a couple scrubs".

but they'll pick the 2nd option anyways.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

No doubt about that.

Is it accurate to say there is a strong correlation between a high payroll (Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Cubs) and winning?

I believe the top seven players in baseball (by fWAR) not named Mike Trout make less than $20MM in 2018 combined. So, that's a thing.

Spending can be good. (An individual would be wise to re-sign Mookie Betts to whatever the hell he wants). Spending can be bad. (JD Martinez' contract may be a bad one as soon as 2020).

 

[BlueForever75]

There needs to be more context with those numbers. Such as how many of those matters either involve the matter never getting to trial? How many eventually get dropped entirely? These matters I am talking about with the man being taken into custody. We need to keep in perspective that it's a lot easier for a woman to make a call to the police and get them to show up on your doorstep than it is to actually go through the legal process. For the woman to go on the stand and answer questions from a defence lawyer.

Anytime someone is brought into custody it means charges are laid. Which means it gets brought to court regardless. Majority of first time offenders unless there is some real physical harm and threat involved get a slap on the wrist. This consists of counselling hours for anger management, and possible marriage counselling. Once they complete these sessions, no charges are laid and nothing is present on the person's record.

If you do it a second time, it gets worse. But 50% of the time, spouses aren't the ones that are laying charges. Its the police. Even if the woman didnt call the police.

What this does is waste the courts time, and making our police work on stuff like this instead of preventing the real crimes that are happening in the streets today that are idiots taking people's innocent lives.

 

[Puckstuff]

Ah yes, the classic 'if the Jays don't drop $300M in the free agent market they're cheaping out' argument.

It's not being cheap; but it may prevent extraordinary success by not acquiring an exceptional tier of top talent. The difference between "exceptional people" and "good people" isn't incremental, it's exponential. Exceptional talent is essentially required and exceptional talent costs an extreme amount of money. You can sometimes find them (Guerrero Jr.) and get them on the cheap (for x amount of years) but to win championships; you are paying that money to somebody or you're not winning.

 

[rojac]

Here are my thoughts on the Osuna situation. It's up to Rogers and Jays management to decide whether they want a continued association with him.

Once they have made that decision, fans of the team can decide whether or not they are going to continue to be fans of the team.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

It's not being cheap; but it may prevent extraordinary success by not acquiring an exceptional tier of top talent. The difference between "exceptional people" and "good people" isn't incremental, it's exponential. Exceptional talent is essentially required and exceptional talent costs an extreme amount of money. You can sometimes find them (Guerrero Jr.) and get them on the cheap (for x amount of years) but to win championships; you are paying that money to somebody or you're not winning.

22/30 of the top position players (by fWAR) are homegrown, former drafted\signed prospects with their original teams that have not reach FA.

Two of the top thirty (and Five of the top fifty) are free agent signings.

Three of the top thirty pitchers are free agent signings.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

just seems like such a sideways move trying to move him at his lowest value. maybe try in the fall after hes pitched for the last 2 months of the season. but to basically give him away for pennies on the dollar seems like horrible asset management. if you let him play out the year and he puts up great numbers someone will pay out the teeth for him we've seen it with chapman and others. unless a team is giving you a king ransom Osuna stays till you can rebuild his value.

 

[Puckstuff]

22/30 of the top position players (by fWAR) are homegrown, former drafted\signed prospects with their original teams that have not reach FA.

Two of the top thirty (and Five of the top fifty) are free agent signings.

Right and looking at the model of the Yankees/RedSox we should develop top talent (Guerrero Jr) like the yankees and red sox did with Aaron Judge and Mookie Bets but should also sign or trade for exceptional top talent - J.D Martinez/Giancarlo Stanton.

The Dodgers, Red Sox and Yankees are probably the best examples of how to win and win a lot. Develop big but acquire big players as well.

Out of those teams that have those 22/30 top position players how many of them have multiple talents in that tier ?

 

[Discoverer]

From an asset-management perspective, if Osuna comes back and pitches in August and September the was he has for the last 3+ years, there's a decent chance his value this winter is exactly what it would have been had they traded him last offseason.

It just depends whether A) someone is willing to pay a similar price now, despite all the question marks, or B) they're willing to take a lesser return to move him in the next 24 hours to avoid the potential negative press. I don't expect A and I'm worried it'll be B. I'm hoping they just let him prove himself for a couple months and move him out this winter.

 

[BlueForever75]

I'm hoping that the truth comes out about Osuna and the allegations against him. This way one way or another we can move on.

But I agree with you, the best case scenario is to have him come back to the Jays for the last 2 months of the season. Let him prove to everyone that he is dominant as ever. See how he is accepted in Toronto after this ordeal and when facts are known. Then make a decision there.

In the end, arbitration reward shouldn't go in his favor after a lost season. You may be able to get him on the cheap with 2 years left of control. Dominant, cheap and controlled could mean a huge return.

 

[Garlando]

22/30 of the top position players (by fWAR) are homegrown, former drafted\signed prospects with their original teams that have not reach FA.

Two of the top thirty (and Five of the top fifty) are free agent signings.

Three of the top thirty pitchers are free agent signings.

This is a great example of how important it is to draft/sign and develop well and those numbers highlight how inefficient free agency is. I have loved what the Jays have been doing from a prospect standpoint, the organization’s farm system is easily in the best shape that I can remember! The system has top level talents now in both upper and lower levels and that means that there will be waves of talent coming to the majors going forward. I hope that continues and we see a LA Dodgers/ St. Louis Cardinals type of farm system that seems to always be intriguing going forward.

I would like to see this management group be more aggressive in terms of acquiring high ceiling players at the major league level. That’s something that Alex Anthopolus always emphasized and I think deals like the most recent one that included Drury and McKinney really highlights a safer approach. The Aledmys Diaz and Yangervis Solarte deals were also similar in approach, and while I liked their value, I disliked the target of talent ceiling. Although perhaps that’s why the cost to acquire was so cheap?

So even while I may not have loved many of the moves that Shapiro and Atkins have made with the major league roster, I do think this team is set up well going forward and I’m excited to watch the future play out!

 

[metafour]

The law favours men, don’t kid yourself.

This statement is so absurdly wrong that its frightening that you can spew it as if it is dogmatic. I can't imagine even one section of law wherein the exact opposite of what you just claimed isn't actually true, even in domestic violence (the topic at hand) wherein statistics show that instigator rates are actually much closer to 50/50 between the sexes despite convictions being almost entirely shifted towards men. Even in a blanket analysis, it is widely known that women receive lesser punishments for the SAME CRIME than men do: robbery, assault, etc. Where exactly do you think the "crying woman gets out of a traffic ticket" stereotype came from? It didn't materialize out of thin air. You have been socially conditioned to believe a set of truths that are warped from reality. Ask yourself why its socially acceptable for the hags on "The Talk" to openly laugh on television about a (real) news story wherein a woman cut off her husband's penis while he was sleeping, and then imagine what the reaction would be like if the roles were reversed and a panel of men were joking about some story about say a man cutting his wife's breast off.

 

[Kurtz]

I believe the top seven players in baseball (by fWAR) not named Mike Trout make less than $20MM in 2018 combined. So, that's a thing.

Spending can be good. (An individual would be wise to re-sign Mookie Betts to whatever the hell he wants). Spending can be bad. (JD Martinez' contract may be a bad one as soon as 2020).

JD Martinez is an interesting one. He's on pace for around 6 fWar this season, and folks around these parts seem to value 1 fwar at around $10 mil. So if JD can keep this level of production up in 2019, his contract would have paid for itself, and even if he Tulos himself 2020-2022, it still ends up a solid deal for the Sox.

 

[Paladin2799]

From an asset-management perspective, if Osuna comes back and pitches in August and September the was he has for the last 3+ years, there's a decent chance his value this winter is exactly what it would have been had they traded him last offseason.

It just depends whether A) someone is willing to pay a similar price now, despite all the question marks, or B) they're willing to take a lesser return to move him in the next 24 hours to avoid the potential negative press. I don't expect A and I'm worried it'll be B. I'm hoping they just let him prove himself for a couple months and move him out this winter.

I certainly don't mind if they do a reasonable deal and decide to move on because of his charges.

I don't want to see Osuna dumped for 10 cents on the dollar.

 

[Kurtz]

I certainly don't mind if they do a reasonable deal and decide to move on because of his charges.

I don't want to see Osuna dumped for 10 cents on the dollar.

Would you take 50 cents on the dollar? Because that's what we'll probably get if we deal him this week.

 

[Cor]

I'm a Roberto Osuna fan boy. I see Hall of Fame closer potential in him.

However, if management trades Osuna, it's not about the return.

And frankly, everyone should be okay with that.