I think the NHL has long term problems...

[Essenege]

Honestly, I also don't understand how things like salary cap, LTIR loopholes and tax differences impacts anyone's enjoyment in the sport. Frankly, I don't really give a crap what these players are earning or what these teams are doing to get a competitive advantage, because it doesn't impact the quality of the games in my eyes. I'm not thinking "I'm not enjoying this game because my team can't go over the cap to add more good players" while watching a game.

People complain about things like that because they want their teams to get some sort of advantage to make them better or they want to get some sort of "compensation" for something they feel they've been slighted over. That's not because the quality of the sport is bad, that's because you want your team to have advantages that you feel other teams have.

To me, it's not a valid criticism of hockey to complain that you want some sort of advantages just because you want them. If it's an idea that basically boils down to "I want this because it benefits my team", it's not a valid criticism.

Paying 2-3 times the ticket price and flooding money into the league in various way as a fan base should give you a certain advantage over other team, at least. Hell, you pay for it.

Ask Manchester United fans what they think about it.

In a free market
Pay more = better product (in general)

Sucks to be in one of those fan base while being at a disadvantage because of leagues’ rules and taxation. At least take the local tax rates into account and close the LTIR loopholes somehow.

 

[sting101]

First, congrats to the Lightning on their dominating Cup Win.

Some of my below points are highlighting a couple advantages that Tampa has enjoyed, but is no way sour grapes or an attack on the franchise. They played by the rules, good for them. My observations are strictly about the rules and how the league is run, so please save any calls about me being " a hater, or anti Tampa", no one wants to hear it.

Here is my list of things that should be of HUGE concern for the league:

1. The Reffing. It needs a complete overhaul and the league needs to decide what type of product they want to put on the ice. I submit, at present, it's an inconsistent mess. No one knows what a penalty is anymore, game management tactics and a total disconnect from regular season to playoffs. IF this isn't fixed soon, it's going to turn a lot of folks off the game.
2. Salary Cap. I personally believe it has some good points, but their needs to be a Luxury Tax or something for teams wanting to go for it and trying to win it all. Big markets are why this league stays afloat, they need the option to spend more.
3. Salary Cap. The tax advantage that multiple have over other higher taxed states or provinces have. To ignore this math is simply unfair. The same contract can be worth 40% more on some teams - yet ALL teams have the same amount to spend. It's utterly ridiculous.
4. Salary Cap. Yes, Tampa played by the rules. Yet, this was a bit of mockery when considering what they were able to dress come playoff time. Changes are needed.
5. Salary Cap. While protecting player dollars, teams need to have more option to get away from bad contracts. One bad signing can hamstring a team for a half decade. Is the game played in the boardroom or on the ice?
6. Goalie equipment. More need to be done on these rules/guidelines. The pic of Price/Vas shaking hands was comical, Price looks normal and Vas looks like the stay puff marshmallow man from Ghost Busters.
7. Size of nets. Despite being a traditionalist, I am coming around to the idea of making the nets a tiny bit bigger. Watching 1-0 Stanley Cup clinching games is NOT good for the future of hockey. I know some will disagree, but the entertainment value of that series was lackluster.
8. The case against the Black Hawks. I will just say that the league better get it right, with whatever they do. This simply cannot happen. Also, boo to Ron McLean for giving Bettman a pass and not evening asking him about it.

As a Canadian, who grew up watching and playing the game, to now having kids playing the game, if my interest as a hardcore fan is declining - I can't imagine the market is increasing.

FIX this sh*t now.

Good Post agree with most of it.

The reffing it's embarrassing really. I don't know how anyone can decipher what the rules are come playoff time. It's stupidly ambiguous and its got to the point where it's what i used to scoff at regarding Soccer (which has gone the other way and has made great positive strides). They really need to focus more on scoring chance fouls vs ticky tack stuff away from the puck in the regular season and let the guys battle for space but not let puck carriers get mauled. Punches to the head and grabbing or waterskiing should be easy calls. Ultimately as you pointed out their needs to be a lot more consistency and cohesiveness between the 2 seasons and just simply review all goals not have coaches have to challenge it and then get penalties. It's so friggen stupid right now

Salary Cap i disagree with a bit. I do think the league should have a franchise player tag independent of the cap that allows the superstars of the league to get what they deserve from ownership without handcuffing the team and would give some transitioning teams some more flexibility with a bad contract. It is absurd how much a bad contract can kill a team and would be nice to see some reliefs built in to allow teams to buy out a terrible performing player and players get what they deserve also. I disagree on the Tampa situation. Not many stars are gonna sit out on purpose and the fact that teams can use pro rated deals at the deadline makes it mostly moot. Taxation is what it is and is not what you pointed out anyway.

Couldn't agree more on the goalies it's a joke. The thigh rise and gear size is such a mockery. It's all for extra blocking not just protection. Annoyingly they use the excuse of safety while skaters have to block shots, get pounded and cross checked in what they wear. Mostly it's the stupid thigh rise that seals the ice and allows them to sit on the knees which is the worst part. Make these guys be better athletes not just giant blockers. Simmonds was 6'2 not exactly a small man but he sure looks it with the pads and protection of old. Surely a honest compromise can be made.

 

[DuklaNation]

One of the easiest solution is the shrinking the goalie equipment. When its easier to score off a deflection, you have a problem. Its been this way for far too long.

A more difficult issue is the blatant interference. I've turned off many games after being totally disgusted by it.

 

[Rapsfan]

Honestly please increase the size of the nets. Goalie equipment is only gonna keep getting bigger. There's a reason NBA is more popular because more scoring. I wanna see more 7-6 games than 1-0 games. More scoring = more chances to prove your talent AND MORE HIGHLIGHTS.

The other thing I'd suggest for NHL is allowing more PoC players. I find that it's too white-dominant league. Even though NBA has a lot of blacks, they have a fair bit of whites as well as other races.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Obstruction is not a penalty and that fact basically regulates what type of teams succeed plus forces everyone to play around the fact.

There was talk that after a few years of post-lockout (the 00's one) that the game was getting so fast thanks to calling all the obstruction that head injuries were increasing. So, apparently, that's part of the obstruction is good philosophy? **** that. I hate that mentality, it's like tearing down the playground because one kid got hurt. If there's an issue with the playground, fix it, don't ruin it for everyone else.

 

[CartographerNo611]

First, congrats to the Lightning on their dominating Cup Win.

Some of my below points are highlighting a couple advantages that Tampa has enjoyed, but is no way sour grapes or an attack on the franchise. They played by the rules, good for them. My observations are strictly about the rules and how the league is run, so please save any calls about me being " a hater, or anti Tampa", no one wants to hear it.

Here is my list of things that should be of HUGE concern for the league:

1. The Reffing. It needs a complete overhaul and the league needs to decide what type of product they want to put on the ice. I submit, at present, it's an inconsistent mess. No one knows what a penalty is anymore, game management tactics and a total disconnect from regular season to playoffs. IF this isn't fixed soon, it's going to turn a lot of folks off the game.
2. Salary Cap. I personally believe it has some good points, but their needs to be a Luxury Tax or something for teams wanting to go for it and trying to win it all. Big markets are why this league stays afloat, they need the option to spend more.
3. Salary Cap. The tax advantage that multiple have over other higher taxed states or provinces have. To ignore this math is simply unfair. The same contract can be worth 40% more on some teams - yet ALL teams have the same amount to spend. It's utterly ridiculous.
4. Salary Cap. Yes, Tampa played by the rules. Yet, this was a bit of mockery when considering what they were able to dress come playoff time. Changes are needed.
5. Salary Cap. While protecting player dollars, teams need to have more option to get away from bad contracts. One bad signing can hamstring a team for a half decade. Is the game played in the boardroom or on the ice?
6. Goalie equipment. More need to be done on these rules/guidelines. The pic of Price/Vas shaking hands was comical, Price looks normal and Vas looks like the stay puff marshmallow man from Ghost Busters.
7. Size of nets. Despite being a traditionalist, I am coming around to the idea of making the nets a tiny bit bigger. Watching 1-0 Stanley Cup clinching games is NOT good for the future of hockey. I know some will disagree, but the entertainment value of that series was lackluster.
8. The case against the Black Hawks. I will just say that the league better get it right, with whatever they do. This simply cannot happen. Also, boo to Ron McLean for giving Bettman a pass and not evening asking him about it.

As a Canadian, who grew up watching and playing the game, to now having kids playing the game, if my interest as a hardcore fan is declining - I can't imagine the market is increasing.

FIX this sh*t now.

1. Reffing is a problem in every league. As long as humans handle it there is always going to be errors. Brindamours idea of having one ref up top with replay to make calls is a solid idea. They would have to remove and on ice ref though to avoid 50 minutes of special teams. ( I’m a big fan of letting the game flow and just let em play)

They just need to make it official they call stricter games during regular season to avoid injuries and let them play for playoffs where it matters. That would clear up a lot.

2. I say get rid of the cap. It’s anti capitalism and goes against everything America stands for. Spending money doesn’t mean automatic cups. Longest droughts are Rangers and Leafs…. Moneybag teams.

3. Get rid of the cap. Players aka people are the product. They should be getting more than 50 percent of the damn revenue.

4. Tampa wanted that loophole removed. 29 other teams voted know… Their fanbase was annoying downplaying their advantage while they cried a river when Chicago beat them with the same advantage. Get rid of the cap and vote. VOTE.

5. Don’t hire Dubas.

6. I agree equipment needs slimming when the technology to do becomes available and affordable to make.

7. I agree, I think goalies who are 6 ft 2 plus they should have a bigger net.

8. Old boys club protecting “tradition.” They need to go or get fined some big money. Disgusting how long junior hockey culture has continued and trickles up to the pro leagues.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I think the OP misses a bit of historic perspective. If he watched the NHL any time after 1967, he should know that the on ice product after doubling in size after expansion was pretty bad, and most of us old timers figured there weren about half AHL players on most rosters.

Many (not all) thought the brawling in that period hurt the game, but its been toned down to more acceptable levels, maybe even "just right" levels, although that is hard to quantify.

Refs are about the same as they always have been. If the league was ever better and not in some kind of trouble, the ref part of it wasn't the reason you don't like it now.

I agree taxes may be an issue, but your numbers are off, compromising your position. And, as noted, it's just state taxes. Besides, I live in Texas, with no state tax, but real estate taxes are higher than most places. (I have never understood the Texas obsession with McMansions, since they are not tax friendly, but I digress......)

In the 90's, most observers thought the NHL playoffs ruled. I get it, not so much now. May have a point, but I am not sure what to do about them.

I wouldn't be against further contract maximum length reduction to 5-6 years. I mean, how many of those look good in years 7 and 8, and maybe even in 5 or 6.

While TB had some good fortune to be able to LTIR Kuch for the season, I always thought the Hossa jersey allergy was a bigger crock of beans. But, basically wanting the best possible product on the ice for when I watch, I favor the owners having some more outs for their bad decisions. I understand that many will feel it just increases their tendency towards massive contrct stupidity.

Ah, that's all the random thoughts I have for the moment, it's Friday afternoon.

 

[sh724]

You can grandfather existing contracts into place, and still make the needed change to no guarantees.

Paragraph 2 rarely happens in the NFL. Remember Leveon Bell? That worked out well for him... next man up! He almost ended his career sitting out that year instead of taking the 14 mil offered by Pittsburgh. I'd rather a player sit out then coast around the ice.

They operate under a CBA yes, but a very different set of terms. The NHL can get rid of guaranteed contracts if they want, it really is ruining the league. As I mentioned before you can sign a 8 year contract and mail it in. I prefer next man up strategy. I'd rather see a player give it 100% fighting for a contract then a lazy Jeff Skinner cruising around the ice at half speed making 9 mil per.

The NHL cannot just get rid of guaranteed contracts if they want. If the owners could just do whatever they wanted unilaterally all players would be indentured servants.

If the owners tried to get rid of guaranteed contracts they would have a massive fight on their hands and would have to give up something(s) very substantially for the players to every agree to it.

A whole season was lost to implement a salary cap. Half a season was lost to modify the salary cap. Getting rid of guaranteed contracts would be a bigger fight than the salary cap was.

 

[sh724]

You know the salary cap system is broken when most of the fans are busy bitching about the salary cap and working out the math to make things work.

Which other sports focus so much on the salary cap compared to the NHL?

Either get rid of the cap entirely or introduce a luxury tax.

The vast majority of people who claim about the cap are fans of the wealthiest of teams. The majority of fans have no problem with the CAP existing.

Also its largely irrelevant whether the fans like the CAP. The owners love the CAP. The most profitable owners were just as supportive of the CAP as the least profitable owners.

 

[txpd]

You know the salary cap system is broken when most of the fans are busy bitching about the salary cap and working out the math to make things work.

Which other sports focus so much on the salary cap compared to the NHL?

Either get rid of the cap entirely or introduce a luxury tax.

Which other sports? The NFL. We can start there. MLB doesnt have a salary cap and as a result is the poster child for the few rich teams are winners every season and the poor teams the league filler.

 

[majormajor]

According to Capfriendly Montreal had a daily cap hit on the eve of the playoffs of $87m, while Tampa infamously had a cap hit of $98m and a daily hit of $101m on the eve of the playoffs.*

Then take note of the tax advantages, where Tampa players forego on average 39% of their cap hit to taxes, and Montreal players 53% (Most teams are in between).

So in terms of actual pay that the players take home:

Tampa players were taking home $61.6m.

Montreal players were taking home $41m.

That's 50% higher! What a joke. I think clubs hit hard by this need to start lobbying harder to level the playing field. The obvious solutions are using a post-tax salary cap and having it apply in both the regular season and playoffs. Precise post-tax salary is very complicated but you could get an estimate that's 99% accurate and base a cap figure on that.

*I wasn't sure whether to use daily cap hit or not. If you just go by regular cap hit then the difference is even bigger - $81m vs $98m before you get to the tax issue.

1. Salary Cap. I personally believe it has some good points, but their needs to be a Luxury Tax or something for teams wanting to go for it and trying to win it all. Big markets are why this league stays afloat, they need the option to spend more.
2. Salary Cap. The tax advantage that multiple have over other higher taxed states or provinces have. To ignore this math is simply unfair. The same contract can be worth 40% more on some teams - yet ALL teams have the same amount to spend. It's utterly ridiculous.
3. Salary Cap. Yes, Tampa played by the rules. Yet, this was a bit of mockery when considering what they were able to dress come playoff time. Changes are needed.

I've combined issues 2 and 3 in my comment above. It is really a huge inequality.

I just want a level playing field though. I don't want a luxury tax or anything like that. I'm fine with smaller markets having an equal shot. It's one of the things that I much prefer about NHL over NBA and MLB. If that means fewer bandwagon fans then I'm fine with that.

 

[Chardo]

I generally agree with the goalies and their equipment being too big for the nets but I don't think it played a big factor in the final game being 1-0. The finals featured 2 HOF goaltenders playing awesome.

Mainly by blocking the net with their massive equipment and letting the puck hit them. A league wide issue, not specifically those two.

Let's shrink that equipment and see who's really HOF material.

 

[Chardo]

Also I thought state taxes are an itemized deduction on your federal taxes. So even if you're paying more state tax you end up paying less in federal taxes.

Limited to $10,000. So not a factor.

 

[Frobbo]

1. Don't allow abject circumvention of the cap for the playoffs.
2. Call the game 95% the same in the playoffs. The players will adjust if there is a parade to the box the first couple of games, play by the same rules as they are used to. I think the added intensity of the playoffs will result in a great game without all the added interference/obstruction and genereal non-calls that are present now. It won't make the games less appealing.
3. Don't encourage the refs the manage the game. This comes from the league, it should stop. Fine coaches who complain about uneven number of calls, that should not be an expectation.
4. Think about what can be done to increase scoring. It is scoring chances that make games exciting, don't let the game become soccer. Goalies are bigger and better coached than ever before resulting in a style of play where players clog the middle trying to defend or screen. It is somewhat boring watching all the blocked shots. Yes, it is courageous but... Consider making the nets bigger, if only by the width of the pipes, think of all the iron hit presently that would be goals.
5. Embrace things like Kucherov's rant, it was real, not malicious.
6. Determine if tax climate is a actual factor in player movement. If it is, make some sort of adjustment to even the field.

 

[majormajor]

6. Determine if tax climate is a actual factor in player movement. If it is, make some sort of adjustment to even the field.

We don't need a special committee to investigate this, we already know that money matters. Combined with the LTIR loophole issue, Tampa players took home 50% more money than Montreal players did.

 

[PROGFAN66]

The NHL product in terms of the speed, toughness and hand eye coordination is second to none IMO.

There are so many things in hockey that are great like 5 on 5 hockey, the nuance offside rule, 3 on 3 overtime hockey, face-offs, transition play, power plays, and the speed of the game that make it unique.

The players in the NHL are bigger and faster than thirty years ago. However, like many things in society its not the players its the leadership on top that is lacking IMO

The NHL needs to cleans up how its officiated. The cross check to the back should be banned, checks to the head players need to be ejected for example. Other proposed changes are below.

The width of the rink should be extended
The width and height of the goal net needs to be changed
Power Play should be the full time
The clear rule for the penalty kill should be eliminated
Limit icing to five a period.
There should be more afternoon starting times though hockey has actually has more 5:00 pm or earlier starts than the NBA currently.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The NHL product in terms of the speed, toughness and hand eye coordination is second to none IMO.

There are so many things in hockey that are great like 5 on 5 hockey, the nuance offside rule, 3 on 3 overtime hockey, face-offs, transition play, power plays, and the speed of the game that make it unique.

The players in the NHL are bigger and faster than thirty years ago. However, like many things in society its not the players its the leadership on top that is lacking IMO

The NHL needs to cleans up how its officiated. The cross check to the back should be banned, checks to the head players need to be ejected for example. Other proposed changes are below.

The width of the rink should be extended
The width and height of the goal net needs to be changed
Power Play should be the full time
The clear rule for the penalty kill should be eliminated
Limit icing to five a period.
There should be more afternoon starting times though hockey has actually has more 5:00 pm or earlier starts than the NBA currently.

Increasing the height of the net would lead to a lot of pucks int he face...not just for goalies, but skaters, too. Increasing the width is a good idea.

Limiting icings would be awkward. Hard to implement.

Also changing the rink size would be very hard to do right now. Need to wait until you have a lot of new arenas set to be built. And even then, not all arenas now could be retrofitted to a different size.

The big thing is consistent officiating. Every game should be reffed the same way, from start to finish. From the first preseason game, to the last game of the Cup final.

 

[PurpleMouse]

Limiting icings would be awkward. Hard to implement.
l.

Not at all. It'd be the equivalent of being in the penalty in basketball. After five icings, you get a two minute delay of game penalty every time you ice the puck (until the next period when your count resets.)

That type of idea- or the resistance to it- is part of a problem with the game. Someone suggests something that's "radical" because it's very different, and it gets rejected even though it makes sense and would make the game more enjoyable.

 

[aufheben]

So…please save the Maple Leafs?

 

[BrokenFace]

The league is 45% Canadian and yet it's been 30 something years since a cup has come here. You figure it out.

Other than the Lightning, the tax free states haven't won much either. That logic cuts both ways.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Other than the Lightning, the tax free states haven't won much either. That logic cuts both ways.

But they get the FAs, that's the point.

 

[BrokenFace]

But they get the FAs, that's the point.

And has that helped them more than the advantages other teams have? Results say no. Like I said, other than the Lightning the tax free franchises haven't done much

 

[scud9]

I would think that the rest of the ice hockey world and IIHF would be against making nets bigger. That is stupid idea.

Overall you don't change anything that isn't broken. Ice hockey is the greatest game on earth and you don't want it to be Basketball. I love the 5-on-5 game and I don't mind 1-0 games. I just think that the 4th line players are better than ever and the clubs are being coached better than ever. That makes the games more even and low-scoring.

 

[Xanlet]

Taxes are HUGE. People trying to downplay it seem to me to be league apologists at best.

 

[Melrose Munch]

And has that helped them more than the advantages other teams have? Results say no. Like I said, other than the Lightning the tax free franchises haven't done much

Pretty much. This is a job, not everyone wants to win a cup.