I think the NHL has long term problems...

[VivaLasVegas]

Show your math on this calculation, please. And remember that we're talking about state income tax (not federal income tax) differences, and that it's pro-rated based on where a player plays (so a player in Florida doesn't get the full benefit, for instance).

Well, that and folks in states without an income tax finance their government some other way, such as by higher property taxes and ridiculous fees on everything.

 

[txpd]

The local income tax thing is a red herring. Yes, some markets have no state income tax. Some markets have a very low cost of living. Some markets have mass amounts of off ice money for endorsements and shows and appearances. Many markets have advantages that they can use to sell their team to a player and that stretches the salary cap. Stop concentrating on just one.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

It was a lazy guess - but I’m positive making 8 million in Texas or Florida is different than making 8 million in NY, Ontario or Quebec.

You do realize that taxes are paid based upon where the money is earned, and pro athletes end up filing returns in a number of states?

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Imagine tuning into hockey for the first time and being like "wait so they officiate the games differently in the regular season and the playoffs? Huh?"

I don't think most fans, especially casual ones dwell on that.

 

[Tyrolean]

Not true. They are 2 of the biggest sports in North America, with hockey being the least popular of the major 4. NFL games are the most watched on tv in NA if i'm not mistaken. Even as a Canadian myself, our group of friends religiously watches NFL. I watch at least 5-6 games on Sunday, multiple playing at once. And every Monday/Thursday game.

The only hockey games I can really watch are my own teams or if there's a really spicy match up on TV. Boston/Tampa, Pitts/Philly etc.

I don't think the NHL fits as one of the "major" four. As a Canadian patriot, I watch the CFL, the talent is lesser, but still surprisingly good. The rules are much better than the NFL.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

You don’t need to always have high goal games btw, even a defensive style low scoring game can be good through the lens of opposing tactics. A 6-4 game may not be a high quality game because of stupid defensive mistakes for example.

Although you could make a case for slightly increasing the nets and adjusting goaltending gear

 

[Oddbob]

Yes and what I said is I’m talking about modern times. Year to year, the officiating is getting worse and more people are criticizing it. Same with DoPS.

Also the issues with officiating in other sports are very minor compared to the NHL and/or easily fixable. They also have much better broadcast and replay systems in place. League doesn’t feel like they need to upgrade in that area, for some reason, so we get a lot of differing viewpoints on bad hits or penalties.

The officiating is not getting any worse. More complaints doesn't mean it has gotten worse. More and more people on the internet is the only difference. They missed just as many calls, they made just as many bad calls. Ask Leaf fans, they still bitch about Wayne Gretzky highsticking Gilmour and not getting a penalty, and there were plenty just like it back then. No difference now, people like you either didn't watch back then or just have recency bias and think it is worse. It isn't.

Do people magically think human beings are incapable of missing stuff or making mistakes? I can assure you, all you bellyachers would do just as "poor" as the current officials and probably far worse. It is a hard job, that happens at a massively fast pace. There are 10 skaters out there chasing a small black puck with a million different moving parts, so it easy to see why stuff gets missed.

 

[Oddbob]

You don’t need to always have high goal games btw, even a defensive style low scoring game can be good through the lens of opposing tactics. A 6-4 game may not be a high quality game because of stupid defensive mistakes for example.

Although you could make a case for slightly increasing the nets and adjusting goaltending gear

I agree to an extent, however much of the time we get low scoring chances/low scoring games, which definitely makes it worse. Lots of goals in a low scoring chance game is better than few goals in the same low chance game. If we had end to end rushes regardless of the score, no one would complain about the score being low.

 

[Oddbob]

Imagine that a Leafs fan advocating for NO CAP. Lol right, so your sad franchise can NY Yankees themselves to a Stanley Cup. What a biased joke of a thread. By the way, the Leafs had nearly 40 years of no salary cap and all the money in the world to spend and still they didn’t get close to winning.


Yeh. Cap is good. No one wants a League like the Premier League or MLB where more than 50% of teams have zero chance to win before the season even starts.


Not true. Officiating is getting worse. Missed calls have always happened, but what we are seeing is ignored calls in the obvious like cross checking and high sticks. Blantently ignored because the refs don’t know how to find a proper balance between “let them play” and calling obvious must-call penalties.


Wrong. People are saying IF those examples you mentioned would get called like they are supposed to be called, then players adjust. Your using those examples as proof that players can’t adjust. You have no idea what the argument your trying to counter is. This whole slippery slope bullshit about there’d be 50 calls a game if they called it by the book is really dumb and has been proven to be entirely wrong on multiple occasions when the rules have been changed.

Not new. We have seen this at the same level every year. Refs have always had to find the line between things. It isn't getting worse, you just want to think it has. Every year, there are plenty plenty of missed calls, was no different in 1990, 1993, 1997, 2004, 2007, 2021 or whatever other years you want to pick. People just want to complain and complain and complain ad nausea um.

 

[Budz]

My original point was more to do regular season reffing vs playoff reffing. The league needs to have 1 set of rules.

…that’s my point.

 

[EichHart]

Yes the NFL players do agree to it as its part of their CBA, just like the NHL CBA guarantees contracts. The league cannot unilaterally change how contracts work. If the owners insisted that contracts not be guaranteed we would have another lock out.

You are leaving out that NFL players can just stop playing in the middle of their contract until the team agrees to pay them more money. NHL players are not able to do that.

Not sure what you mean by "control" both the NFL and the NHL (and MLB and NBA) operate under an agreement (CBA) between the Board of Governors (owners) and the players association.

You can grandfather existing contracts into place, and still make the needed change to no guarantees.

Paragraph 2 rarely happens in the NFL. Remember Leveon Bell? That worked out well for him... next man up! He almost ended his career sitting out that year instead of taking the 14 mil offered by Pittsburgh. I'd rather a player sit out then coast around the ice.

They operate under a CBA yes, but a very different set of terms. The NHL can get rid of guaranteed contracts if they want, it really is ruining the league. As I mentioned before you can sign a 8 year contract and mail it in. I prefer next man up strategy. I'd rather see a player give it 100% fighting for a contract then a lazy Jeff Skinner cruising around the ice at half speed making 9 mil per.

 

[zizbuka]

Oh boy, another disguised Canadians fan rant........

 

[Budz]

Oh boy, another disguised Canadians fan rant........

You sure are a sleuth. I state I’m Canadian in the original post and Budz doesn’t really hide who I cheer for.

Anything intelligent to add?

 

[BFLO]

To your point about bad contracts they should just allow 1 buyout per season per team that does not count against the cap, and players can't be traded and then bought out in this way in the same 18-24 month period to be a disincentive to a secondary market for these buy outs. This way players still get to keep their guaranteed contracts and get paid, but teams aren't stuck with bad contracts on their cap with no way out.

Reffing needs a major overhaul.
1. Call the game the same in the playoffs and regular season
2. Call the game more like 05-07. Fast and skilled hockey should be encouraged. Bear hugging, water skiing, clutch and grabbing the skill out of the game should be penalized.
3. They should broaden the scope of what counts as an illegal check to the head. As in hits that include contact to the body as well as the head should count as head shots. Like when a player takes a shoulder to the head but also the arm through the chest, right now this isn't considered a head shot most of the time. It should. Brain damage is brain damage regardless of if there was also body contact.
4. Remove the instigator penalty. And call all this nonsense roughing/fighting that occurs between the whistles. Right now they essentially let the players have a fight where they keep their gloves on between every set of whistles but they don't call any penalties. Just let them fight and then send the fighters to the box for 2 minutes each. We're in this weird limbo where drop the gloves fights are rare, but there's constant glove on fights that go uncalled between the whistles. Seems more dangerous and less entertaining the way things are now.
5. Off ice ref and review/replays like the NBA has would be great. The on ice refs miss something or get a call wrong? No problem! The off ice ref radios in and they fix it at the next whistle. This would also fix the long delays we experience for reviews currently.

Yes there would be a massive number of power plays per game at first. But the players would adjust to the new paradigm, or they would end up out of the league.

 

[Neil Racki]

The future of the league will have long term problems if guys like Trent Frederic, who cant even skate, are 1st round picks.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

1. The Reffing. It needs a complete overhaul and the league needs to decide what type of product they want to put on the ice. I submit, at present, it's an inconsistent mess. No one knows what a penalty is anymore, game management tactics and a total disconnect from regular season to playoffs. IF this isn't fixed soon, it's going to turn a lot of folks off the game.
2. Salary Cap. I personally believe it has some good points, but their needs to be a Luxury Tax or something for teams wanting to go for it and trying to win it all. Big markets are why this league stays afloat, they need the option to spend more.
3. Salary Cap. The tax advantage that multiple have over other higher taxed states or provinces have. To ignore this math is simply unfair. The same contract can be worth 40% more on some teams - yet ALL teams have the same amount to spend. It's utterly ridiculous.
4. Salary Cap. Yes, Tampa played by the rules. Yet, this was a bit of mockery when considering what they were able to dress come playoff time. Changes are needed.
5. Salary Cap. While protecting player dollars, teams need to have more option to get away from bad contracts. One bad signing can hamstring a team for a half decade. Is the game played in the boardroom or on the ice?
6. Goalie equipment. More need to be done on these rules/guidelines. The pic of Price/Vas shaking hands was comical, Price looks normal and Vas looks like the stay puff marshmallow man from Ghost Busters.
7. Size of nets. Despite being a traditionalist, I am coming around to the idea of making the nets a tiny bit bigger. Watching 1-0 Stanley Cup clinching games is NOT good for the future of hockey. I know some will disagree, but the entertainment value of that series was lackluster.
8. The case against the Black Hawks. I will just say that the league better get it right, with whatever they do. This simply cannot happen. Also, boo to Ron McLean for giving Bettman a pass and not evening asking him about it.

As a Canadian, who grew up watching and playing the game, to now having kids playing the game, if my interest as a hardcore fan is declining - I can't imagine the market is increasing.

FIX this sh*t now.

1st - agreed with your general point - changes are needed in many areas. Couple of comments below:

2. Salary Cap. I personally believe it has some good points, but their needs to be a Luxury Tax or something for teams wanting to go for it and trying to win it all. Big markets are why this league stays afloat, they need the option to spend more.

Absolutely not going to happen. The NHL owners sacrificed 1.5 years of hockey for the cost certainity of a hard cap, which has the "by-product" of minimizing the potential salary disparity between the have's & have-nots. (Interesting that your point in #2 would theoretically make worse what you says needs to be fixed on #3 & #4.

3. Salary Cap. The tax advantage that multiple have over other higher taxed states or provinces have. To ignore this math is simply unfair. The same contract can be worth 40% more on some teams - yet ALL teams have the same amount to spend. It's utterly ridiculous.

As an accountant - I'll just say that taxes are incredibly complex and vary based on things that many people do not understand (signing bonus vs. regular salary, where games are played, etc.). I'd love to see your example of a 40% differential, because I can't believe that's case. If something like this was implemented, I think that you'd also need to institute things like salary cap for front offices including scouting/coaching, etc, and limit the signing bonus loop-hole. I don't think that this would be addressed, because a player's cap hit would then vary based on their team, which would be incredibly complicated.

 

[C77]

The future of the league will have long term problems if guys like Trent Frederic, who cant even skate, are 1st round picks.

Haha...Frederic can skate pretty well for a big man....just has no idea what's going on around him and can't make plays with the puck.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The OP stated everything very well. I agree all around except the nets. They're fine. Fix the equipment.

 

[Docgonzo]

The taxes route is such a lazy thing fans are chasing just because the Lightning have kept their team together.

Other than Tampa Bay Buccaneers signing Brady and Miami Heat signing Lebron and Chris Bosh, I must’ve missed the times in the NHL, NBA, MLB and NFL that Florida and Texas constantly sign all the top free agents because they get more money because of taxes….

 

[BrokenFace]

I'm sick of the no tax states argument. Why do some people want to correct for tax differences among teams but not any other differences? Don't Canadian teams have a big advantage of being able to attract Canadian players and employees who want to work near where they were raised? Don't Eastern Conference teams have a massive travel advantage? Don't rich teams have the ability to outspend other teams in every other aspect of running a franchise? Don't the Original 6 teams get a massive advantage in exposure with the number of national games they get?

Why correct for differences in tax laws if you're not going to correct any other difference?

 

[MichaelFarrell]

I'm sick of the no tax states argument. Why do some people want to correct for tax differences among teams but not any other differences? Don't Canadian teams have a big advantage of being able to attract Canadian players and employees who want to work near where they were raised? Don't Eastern Conference teams have a massive travel advantage? Don't rich teams have the ability to outspend other teams in every other aspect of running a franchise? Don't the Original 6 teams get a massive advantage in exposure with the number of national games they get?

Why correct for differences in tax laws if you're not going to correct any other difference?

according to Burke, No. Generally players put every Canadian team on their no-trade lists. Cold climate, high tax rates, and more media pressure. It’s not worth it.

 

[Essenege]

It's not a "lazy guess", it's a hilariously dishonest estimate you used to complain about a non-issue.



Yeah, good luck convincing the players to ever agree to this.

If the discrepancy is around 10% which is what I have in mind (20-25% local tax rate discrepancy * half the games), it’s far, very far from being a non-issue. It’s a 8 million difference. Huge.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Couldn't care less re taxes.

Problem with the cap is that it works for everyone except fans of big market teams. It's not for parity. The issue is you can't have a cap and NTCs/NMCs that block Canadian teams from acquiring talent.

I don't like the cap at all and would prefer a larger TV deal to take care of cost certainty. Until that happens, it stays.

The blackhawks situation should have been number 1 on your list and I say that as a fan.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm sick of the no tax states argument. Why do some people want to correct for tax differences among teams but not any other differences? Don't Canadian teams have a big advantage of being able to attract Canadian players and employees who want to work near where they were raised? Don't Eastern Conference teams have a massive travel advantage? Don't rich teams have the ability to outspend other teams in every other aspect of running a franchise? Don't the Original 6 teams get a massive advantage in exposure with the number of national games they get?

Why correct for differences in tax laws if you're not going to correct any other difference?

The league is 45% Canadian and yet it's been 30 something years since a cup has come here. You figure it out.

 

[ottawa]

You know the salary cap system is broken when most of the fans are busy bitching about the salary cap and working out the math to make things work.

Which other sports focus so much on the salary cap compared to the NHL?

Either get rid of the cap entirely or introduce a luxury tax.