Proposal: I think its time RE: Nyquist AND Tatar

[Mount Suribachi]

So at what point do we finally cut our losses on guys like Brendan Smith, Tomas Jurco, and Tomas Tatar?

They may have talent, but probably need to move on from Detroit. Cause I would rather go and trade those guys and bring up other people who A) Cost less and B) actually have a chance of getting better.

Just seems like they have either plateaued or are just in the wrong system for their skillset.

Smith probably at the trade deadline. Jurco in the off season. Tatat we can hopefully sign to a cheap deal that will take him to FA.

 

[golffuul]

Tatar has a rough 25 game stretch to the start the season after 3 good seasons and we should cut our losses on him. Give me a break.

Even if Tatar goes on to score 20 goals, this season, I still would make the same statement. It's not his statistics I am looking at, it is the way he plays. Same with Jurco and Smith. The way the play seems not to fit in with the style of play that Detroit asks of them. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just time to recognize the square pegs in a system requring round ones.

 

[HIFE]

Even if Tatar goes on to score 20 goals, this season, I still would make the same statement. It's not his statistics I am looking at, it is the way he plays. Same with Jurco and Smith. The way the play seems not to fit in with the style of play that Detroit asks of them. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just time to recognize the square pegs in a system requring round ones.

This. Surprising to read so many comments that, "hopefully we can lock him up for cheaper". What? Like it's impossible to imagine Tatar not on the team? We expect management to face reality and move forward but the fans can't let go of their pipe-dreams. This summer is the perfect opportunity to cut ties. Detroit desperately needs changes in any way we can get.

A change of scenery could help Tats. Hagelin, also a small guy (of course a more impactful player), last season was dumped to Anaheim for months. Had the worst slump of his career it wasn't a good fit for whatever reason. Sent to Pittsburgh- boom we know the results after that- best line in the world for 2 months.

I'm really curious how TT would fare not being doted on and sheltered by the Wings organization.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Tatar isn't really improving a whole lot as a player. He is still making the same mistakes he did several years ago.

I agree that neither guy needs to be protected.

Mantha, Mrazek and Larkin

Those are the guys I don't want to ship and by all means we should discuss legitimate offers even for them.

I think Nyquist was hurt last year and looks to have rebounded. He has been quicker and has had a good impact a lot of nights this year. Tatar worries me because I think other teams just know how to defend him at this point and he hasn't done a great job of breaking that book that is out there on him. Sit back and wait for his mistake because it is coming it would seem is how teams are playing him. But both should be absolutely available for the right things.

I apologize to those that pushed Tatar and Sheahan for Fowler at points in this off-season. I didn't believe value wise that we needed to go there, man I wish we had.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Both are good players, but they aren't players that can carry a team. They are in the same group as players like Flippula and Hudler.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

The biggest change in the next 5 years will be on D for us. In a few years, Tatar and Nyquist will still be in their prime and if we have add a few d-men that can move the puck (Hronek, Cholo, Saarijarvi, Russo etc) it could make those guys look a lot better.

They're not players you really build around, but they could be excellent support for a long time still.

Wings need top end talent to build around and none of those Dmen are projected to be that.

Wings will also still have a number of bad contracts on the books. Those contracts will get worse before they expire.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Wings need top end talent to build around and none of those Dmen are projected to be that.

Wings will also still have a number of bad contracts on the books. Those contracts will get worse before they expire.

Tell me more about what they are projected to be.

So move the bad contracts? Why should we move Nyquist and Tatar because other contracts will be bad?

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Both are good players, but they aren't players that can carry a team. They are in the same group as players like Flippula and Hudler.

Absolutely. But cup winning teams still need complementary pieces like Filpulla, Hudler - and Nyquist and Tatar.

Its OK to talk about needing to draft a 1D and a 1C (and we need to), but you still need to surround them with half decent depth, or you turn into Oilers.

We should get a decent return at the deadline just for Vanek and Green. I'd hang on to Tats and Goose for now, we've got several years to trade them if need be.

 

[Run the Jewels]

These guys for whatever reason are not cutting it. Tatar can't hit the net to save his life and while I like Nyquist's game, I think its time to cut ties with him as well. We have plenty of small/speed players on this team (when healthy) so I think getting another Mantha type player would be beneficial. One that can win those board battles. Of course adding a defenseman is key here as well. Add in a pick with these 2 players and what would an idealistic return for them be?

Too bad that Fowler trade never materialized. On pace for 23 goals and 53 points. It cracks me up that people thought he wasn't worth trading for given our very obvious needs.

 

[KJoe88]

Tatar shouldn't even be involved in the same sentence as Nyquist. I've always been against trading him because he can help carry a line.

Tatar cannot. When he sucks, he's rendered useless - a liability. Nyquist isn't.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Too bad that Fowler trade never materialized. On pace for 23 goals and 53 points. It cracks me up that people thought he wasn't worth trading for given our very obvious needs.

Who really thought it wasn't worth trading for him period? It was always about the cost.

 

[aar000n]

I really think it is the system of blashill thats killing them both.

 

[SoupNazi]

Who really thought it wasn't worth trading for him period? It was always about the cost.

It's hyperbole. I don't recall anyone saying he wasn't worth trading for at all.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Who really thought it wasn't worth trading for him period? It was always about the cost.

The usual suspects who throw water on any upgrade to the roster. Gotta give it up to Frk It though who actually watches the games and was big on Fowler. It's amazing what happens when you watch the games.

 

[Claypool]

The usual suspects who throw water on any upgrade to the roster.

I don't recall many folks who were against a trade that involved players like Tatar.

 

[DetroitRed]

I agree that they aren't really cutting it, and I think you could say about the same for nearly everyone on the team. Maybe you could say the same for EVERYONE on the team. It appears they've all peaked in seasons past, even the young ones.

 

[Claypool]

I agree that they aren't really cutting it, and I think you could say about the same for nearly everyone on the team. Maybe you could say the same for EVERYONE on the team. It appears they've all peaked in seasons past, even the young ones.

It all starts with the backend. Put Lidstrom and Rafalski on this team and everyone will start putting up more points. The team can't get the puck out of their own zone and spends too much time trying to get it out. They defense also can't make a pass up the ice to take advantage of this team's speed. The defense also can't get the puck through from the point.

 

[DetroitRed]

It all starts with the backend. Put Lidstrom and Rafalski on this team and everyone will start putting up more points. The team can't get the puck out of their own zone and spends too much time trying to get it out. They defense also can't make a pass up the ice to take advantage of this team's speed. The defense also can't get the puck through from the point.

That would help. It would also help if they had more talent up front.

Actually this might be a topic for its own thread, but I think that in probably two out of three cases this season, Detroit doesn't even have its best players as captains. I feel like both of the guys who they have wearing an "A" are expendable, pretending momentarily that Detroit could move them. And they could definitely move Nyquist and Tatar at this point without me caring.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Tatar for Hudler straight up

 

[dangledangledeke]

I'll never understand the mindset of wanting to get rid of some of your offensive talent for pennies on the dollar. We can't keep bleeding out offensive players. We need MORE of these guys. Not less.

We have a line (Quite possibly the worst line in the entire league) consisting of Ott - Miller - Glendening and people are pointing fingers at two of your better forwards simply because they are "noticeable" at turning the puck over... I just don't get it. Look at the list of the most turnovers year after year and you'll see a list of the best players year after year.

Tatar is amongst our best possession forwards. Give him some time to get rolling. He's going to be alright. He's out producing Larkin and Abdelkader. He was 2 points behind Z last season with almost 4 minutes less TOI per game.

Nyquist sits only behind Z and Nielson in points for forwards. Stop being so reactive to our better players.

The Wings can't score. Let's try to surround our guys with better forwards. Not bigger forwards. Not grittier forwards. Guys that can play with the puck.

 

[Frk It]

Who really thought it wasn't worth trading for him period? It was always about the cost.

I'd say people were scoffing at realistic costs because they were undervaluing him.

The usual suspects who throw water on any upgrade to the roster. Gotta give it up to Frk It though who actually watches the games and was big on Fowler. It's amazing what happens when you watch the games.

Thanks. He's having a career year, it remains to be seen if he can maintain it. But with the way he has played so far, he would have been a huge addition to this team.

 

[TCNorthstars]

So at what point do we finally cut our losses on guys like Brendan Smith, Tomas Jurco, and Tomas Tatar?

They may have talent, but probably need to move on from Detroit. Cause I would rather go and trade those guys and bring up other people who A) Cost less and B) actually have a chance of getting better.

Just seems like they have either plateaued or are just in the wrong system for their skillset.

Who on Earth would you bring up to replace Tatar? Old Mother Hubbard is ringing a bell here.......

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'll never understand the mindset of wanting to get rid of some of your offensive talent for pennies on the dollar. We can't keep bleeding out offensive players. We need MORE of these guys. Not less.

We have a line (Quite possibly the worst line in the entire league) consisting of Ott - Miller - Glendening and people are pointing fingers at two of your better forwards simply because they are "noticeable" at turning the puck over... I just don't get it. Look at the list of the most turnovers year after year and you'll see a list of the best players year after year.

Tatar is amongst our best possession forwards. Give him some time to get rolling. He's going to be alright. He's out producing Larkin and Abdelkader. He was 2 points behind Z last season with almost 4 minutes less TOI per game.

Nyquist sits only behind Z and Nielson in points for forwards. Stop being so reactive to our better players.

The Wings can't score. Let's try to surround our guys with better forwards. Not bigger forwards. Not grittier forwards. Guys that can play with the puck.

I think your missing the point. No one is saying Tatar and Nyquist are bad players, but you can't trade players from "the worst line in the league" and expect to get something back. You have to give something to get something.

 

[njx9]

Meh, Tatar and Nyquist don't add enough to the team now to care all that much whether or not they're on the roster. That said, neither is going to return anything of actual value, so I'm happy to hang onto them (since they're cheap) until they either up their value to enough to be worth trading, or we actually have someone better to replace them with.

 

[dangledangledeke]

I think your missing the point. No one is saying Tatar and Nyquist are bad players, but you can't trade players from "the worst line in the league" and expect to get something back. You have to give something to get something.

That's fair, but then who do you realistically trade these guys for? You need elite players. That's the biggest issue with the Wings right now. It's not size. It's not grit. It's a talent issue. You have a GM who trades significantly less than any other GM in the league and when he does he routinely gets fleeced.

I don't see a scenario where we trade one or both of these guys and come out on top. In my opinion, we should be more focused on getting rid of our bad longer contracts (Abby, Helm, Kronner, E, Jimmy, Glendening). Let's take a step back to make two steps forward instead of waddling in purgatory. That's how the Wings will have to get Elite talent because I highly doubt (and truly hope I'm wrong) that we are getting it any other way at this point.