I Hate The Draft Lottery

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LeafsNation75

Registered User
Jan 15, 2010
37,975
12,506
Toronto, Ontario
Yea and I think the fact nearly every SC winner in the past few years were born from basement dwelling teams is a BAD thing. They all got rewarded for being terribly run franchises, while a team like NYR or DET are penalized for success. And many times poorly run teams will still fail and just ruin their prospects, Edmontons been in the basement for a decade, them Arizona and Buffalo were the basement dwellers back in the McDavid draft and they're all still right there together.

No one has done anything to tank? Of course the players are competitive athletes and aren't playing to lose but management and ownership sure as hell do. Calling up a bunch of AHL'ers to play instead of icing an NHL roster isn't tanking? Trading away any pieces that keep you competitive at the deadline isn't tanking? Buffalo and Toronto weren't tanking?
Prior to the salary cap teams like the Rangers and Red Wings still spent a lot of money on UFA's. It worked out for the Wings and we know it didn't for the Rangers. Today the Wings are not the dominate team they use to be and everyone saw this happening along time ago.
 

Panthaz89

Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dec 24, 2016
13,312
5,809
Buffalo,NY
Yea and I think the fact nearly every SC winner in the past few years were born from basement dwelling teams is a BAD thing. They all got rewarded for being terribly run franchises, while a team like NYR or DET are penalized for success. And many times poorly run teams will still fail and just ruin their prospects, Edmontons been in the basement for a decade, them Arizona and Buffalo were the basement dwellers back in the McDavid draft and they're all still right there together.

No one has done anything to tank? Of course the players are competitive athletes and aren't playing to lose but management and ownership sure as hell do. Calling up a bunch of AHL'ers to play instead of icing an NHL roster isn't tanking? Trading away any pieces that keep you competitive at the deadline isn't tanking? Buffalo and Toronto weren't tanking?
Almost every team has ups and downs.......the Sabres were one of the better teams for most of the 2000s someone has to be at the near bottom eventually as the league has winners and losers. There are still better guys available passed over during the first round that the teams you mentioned missed out on and not every top pick is even a guaranteed star. Not too mention a lot of teams are suffering at the bottom because FA don't want to go there unless they get overpaid which ends up hurting those teams long term while Contenders and champions can easily get players who want to win for a cheap price so it has both ends too it....what if Tavarres ends up going to a contender/champion team for a relatively cheap price for his skill? No one is "calling up AHLers" to tank Idk wtf you are talking about, Since the top 3 picks have been implemented no team has even come closed to tanking. Who on the Coyotes, Sabres, Canucks, Oilers, etc are regularly AHLers....Oilers aren't even that much different then the team that went far into the playoffs last season.
 

BlueGreen

Registered User
Jan 3, 2018
445
314
I’m not sure if this was thought of, but I like the idea of the teams that don’t make the playoffs still have a playoff as well. Something like the champions league and the Europa league in soccer. The 15 NHL teams that don’t make the Stanley cup playoffs can have their own playoffs for another trophy, plus the winner gets to pick 1st overall, the runner up 2nd OA, etc... This could create some extra excitement and revenue for the league plus the teams can battle it out for the first overall, thoughts?
 

Critical13

Fear is the mind-killer.
Feb 25, 2017
12,617
9,435
Sitting at a desk.
At the end of the day, the teams in the bottom 5 need the pick the most. You can argue “reward for losing” but it’s a business and for some groups, the cupboard is so bare that high picks are the only solution.

The system is logical and makes sense. Lower probability based on number of 1 OA picks within 5 years to avoid Oilers syndrome, but otherwise it’s fine.
 
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HockeyAnalystGenius

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
678
288
The salary cap has ruined the magic of the game. Younger fans don't understand and argue it on the internet. There is no such thing as powerhouses and underdogs anymore. Every team is interchangeable. It doesn't matter what jersey you wear, what your city is. Every team's the same now. Nerds and kids don't get it.
 

Panthaz89

Buffalo Sabres, Carolina Panthers fan
Dec 24, 2016
13,312
5,809
Buffalo,NY
The salary cap has ruined the magic of the game. Younger fans don't understand and argue it on the internet. There is no such thing as powerhouses and underdogs anymore. Every team is interchangeable. It doesn't matter what jersey you wear, what your city is. Every team's the same now. Nerds and kids don't get it.
Really?? Vegas were considered one of the biggest underdogs coming in and the Penguins won 2 SCs in a row you think they weren't considered a powerhouse?
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
78,811
53,472
Terrible, OP.

Go back far enough, the origin of every NHL champion basically started at the bottom of the standings. It's pro sports welfare. How else is a mismanaged, down on its luck franchise going to get off the mat?
 

HockeyAnalystGenius

Registered User
Jun 15, 2017
678
288
Really?? Vegas were considered one of the biggest underdogs coming in and the Penguins won 2 SCs in a row you think they weren't considered a powerhouse?

Vegas is the only different team in the league because they haven't been ravaged by the cap era, they prove my point. Do you actually think any regular season matchup is underdog vs powerhouse? No one cares. There is slight caring in the playoffs still but it's not how it used to be. Regular season matches used to mean something. There's no David vs Goliath anymore. It's Clone A vs Clone B. 1-16 doesn't matter. And the divisional format makes it even less special!
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,190
32,847
St. Paul, MN
The salary cap has ruined the magic of the game. Younger fans don't understand and argue it on the internet. There is no such thing as powerhouses and underdogs anymore. Every team is interchangeable. It doesn't matter what jersey you wear, what your city is. Every team's the same now. Nerds and kids don't get it.

I’d rather have a league where my favourite team had a reasonable chance at success every season then one where they had next to no chance
 

lifelonghockeyfan

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
6,283
1,356
Lake Huron
Think you showed some unfactual bias by calling bad teams "tanking". No in most cases they are bad, not tanking.
Because of the lottery system bad teams aren't rewarded as much in the NHL or NBA. Gee, you have to give bad teams and their paying fan bases hope.
And to those who don't want a salary cap, well the NHL will be a 16 team league. And it most cases it would be the Premier League in British Football, six dominate teams year after year....with the yearly intrusion of one or two more.
 

timbermen

Registered User
Nov 14, 2017
1,332
690
I hate the lottery because i'm a canuck fan and they never win one ,even though they're 2nd to last every year.I'm happy they got Pettersson though,he might be the best player of that draft anyway.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,269
1,837
Los Angeles
I don't care about creating league parity or fairness at all through the order of the draft. The hard cap we have now helps manage that greatly. The hard cap creates a level of cost certainty and creates a protective layer for parity as long as the NHLPA members and their agents continue to be financially self-motivated.

In the past, we had no cap so we needed the draft ordering to help with the parity issue. Now, we have the cap.

What the OP is complaining about is bad teams ruining talent. I feel this is a real problem as once there's a monkey wrench in a good young player's development, it can be almost impossible to recover from. I'm not talking about the McDavid's of the world, who would make the NHL one way or another, I'm talking about the other 99%. For example, going with the team I watch the most, a player like Jonathan Quick who has had success in the NHL but came up as a lower round pick or Tyler Toffoli, who was a flawed player when drafted in the second round but is now a legit top sixer on any team in the NHL. Or late 1st rounder Tanner Pearson, who was passed on his first draft then drafted with the last pick in the first round. Or a player like Alec Martinez, another late round pick and is now an everyday two-way defenseman. Martin Jones too.

I'm not sure if other teams that perpetually lose and draft high due to losing would have developed these players into full time NHLers. Every team gets a pick in every round but a hallmark of these teams is they don't graduate many later round picks. They even have a poor graduation rate with first rounders.

Imagine a top managed team. Not the richest team, I'm talking a well managed organization. People groan that this means this team gets a blue chip prospect. Well look at 2010 Chicago. They built a team like that and landed prime Hossa too. What happened? They won one Cup, highly deserved, then they had to trade off a bunch of good players because the cap forced them. Six or more different teams over the years got good players while Chicago got saddled with huge contracts on aging players. In the meantime Panarin/Saad, Hjalmersson, Bolland, Buff, Versteeg, Leddy, etc. went on to help other teams.

The most important thing is that young prospects get developed into good players for the entire league to have, which should up the quality of the game overall.
 
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Gnashville

HFBoards Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2003
13,748
3,600
Crossville
Open lottery for all teams for the top 3 picks the standings dictate the rest. If you win 1st overall the you can’t win for a decade 2nd overall 5 years 3rd 3 years
 

HOPE

Goal Caufield!
Jun 30, 2011
7,336
5,229
Montreal
As a Leafs fan I will admit being one of those people who wanted them to lose during the 2015-2016 season so they could get the best possible spot in the draft lottery that year. However what you don't realize it was stressful and hard to watch since I'm a huge Leafs fan, however for the future of the franchise it needed to happen. Plus they didn't clinch last place overall until the very final game of the regular season and once it was the draft lottery it all came down to luck. Thankfully the Leafs got the 1st pick in 2016, however what you might not know is during the 4th ball drawing based on the numbers which were already selected (6-8-5) they could only win with the #13. One year before during the Connor McDavid lottery they had the best odds for the 4th ball drawing because the numbers which was already selected (5-14-6) the Leafs needed a #1 ball to be selected and according to a Toronto Star article it was about to happen, until a #2 Oilers ball knocked it away at the last possible second. So after going through all of the emotions its something I don't want to experience for a long time.
lucky you. I wish the habs did it, When we did actually suck for real, team that we're suppose to perform and be good teams, sucked the same years, Think; Winnipeg.
now look the oilers this year... if they honestely land dahlin, i might take a break from watching hockey, i will be mad as f*** lol
 
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Devils090

Registered User
Feb 16, 2014
10,868
8,017
People bitch and moan about tanking but there is something to be said for teams that properly rebuild themselves through the draft and freeing up cap space via trades.
 

zar

Bleed Blue
Sponsor
Oct 9, 2010
7,165
6,732
Edmonton AB
At the end of the day, the teams in the bottom 5 need the pick the most. You can argue “reward for losing” but it’s a business and for some groups, the cupboard is so bare that high picks are the only solution.

The system is logical and makes sense. Lower probability based on number of 1 OA picks within 5 years to avoid Oilers syndrome, but otherwise it’s fine.

You were fine until you said the bolded above. NOT ALL YEARS ARE EQUAL!

There are times when you absolutely want the #1OA... Crosby, Stamkos, McDavid, Matthews, Dahlin... and then years when you would like it but the gap is negligible. Even times when you go into a draft identifying 2 very good players before a gap. Ovechkin/Malkin, Hall/Seguin, McDavid/Eichel,
 
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Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
46,474
14,783
Victoria
A salary cap is one thing, but a hard cap just penalizes drafting.

This is ridiculous. Who are the teams who get to the Stanley Cup finals? The teams that have their bottom 6 filled out by strong contributors on ELCs. Look at Pittsburgh. Look at Nashville. Look at San Jose. To be a contender in today's NHL under the current system, you need to draft very well for a few years in a row. Then to sustain it, you need to keep drafting well. That's the blue-print that all the top teams have. When their window closes, it's because they've either traded away picks for too long, or they've stopped being able to produce that push from the bottom because they've stopped producing talent from drafting and development. This is the ultimate system to reward good drafting. A soft cap goes part-way, because it rewards good drafting for a short period of time, and doesn't punish you if you can't keep drafting well. A hard cap ruthlessly forces you to continue with good drafting.

The draft lottery is crap too because then the NHL can start putting guys where they want them, and don't think for a second that they won't. It's all about the dollar bill.

The first two years of the lottery, two huge Canadian markets get their saviors. I'm shocked.

This is a very weak attempt at a tinfoil hat conspiracy. First of all, these two lotteries you're clearly referring to were not the "first two years of the lottery" no matter how you want to slice it. They weren't even each conducted with the same lottery system. There's been a lottery since 1995, and the Kings won that one.

Second of all, the NHL has shown time and time again that they care much, much more about making American fans happy than Canadian fans. That is where the biggest market is, thus that is where the money is, and thus that is where the priority is, so your proposed motive makes no sense to begin with on that front. But beyond that, the "NHL," which you are referring to here as some mysterious otherworldly entity is really just the owners of all the NHL teams, plus a few executives to organize them and represent them as one, and so you're alleging that all of the owners here have agreed to a conspiracy to divert phenom players to the few Canadian teams. Not really a realistic scenario. Or, perhaps, the draft lottery was instated in good faith by the owners, but Gary Bettman is rigging it anyway, running a massive risk of corruption charges and paying off a whole room-full of people each year for their silence (and must be paying a hefty amount for not even one person to blow the whistle in all this time). And, of course, you're alleging that, even after seeing how Sidney Crosby resurrected a Pittsburgh market from the brink of relocation and made them a huge cash-cow for the league again, he's come to the conclusion that the most sensible course is to gift number one picks to the rock-solid markets that don't really have any room for growth anyway.

Maybe stop and think about it. I know you probably come onto this topic with long-standing pre-existing hatred for the concept of a salary cap, for some reason. Maybe it's because you enjoyed what the Rangers did pre-cap. Maybe it's because you're a Yankees fan? Not sure. But your arguments here are extremely sloppy and not at all sensible.
 

Machinehead

GoAwayTrouba
Jan 21, 2011
142,689
113,327
NYC
This is ridiculous. Who are the teams who get to the Stanley Cup finals? The teams that have their bottom 6 filled out by strong contributors on ELCs. Look at Pittsburgh. Look at Nashville. Look at San Jose. To be a contender in today's NHL under the current system, you need to draft very well for a few years in a row. Then to sustain it, you need to keep drafting well. That's the blue-print that all the top teams have. When their window closes, it's because they've either traded away picks for too long, or they've stopped being able to produce that push from the bottom because they've stopped producing talent from drafting and development. This is the ultimate system to reward good drafting. A soft cap goes part-way, because it rewards good drafting for a short period of time, and doesn't punish you if you can't keep drafting well. A hard cap ruthlessly forces you to continue with good drafting.



This is a very weak attempt at a tinfoil hat conspiracy. First of all, these two lotteries you're clearly referring to were not the "first two years of the lottery" no matter how you want to slice it. They weren't even each conducted with the same lottery system. There's been a lottery since 1995, and the Kings won that one.

Second of all, the NHL has shown time and time again that they care much, much more about making American fans happy than Canadian fans. That is where the biggest market is, thus that is where the money is, and thus that is where the priority is, so your proposed motive makes no sense to begin with on that front. But beyond that, the "NHL," which you are referring to here as some mysterious otherworldly entity is really just the owners of all the NHL teams, plus a few executives to organize them and represent them as one, and so you're alleging that all of the owners here have agreed to a conspiracy to divert phenom players to the few Canadian teams. Not really a realistic scenario. Or, perhaps, the draft lottery was instated in good faith by the owners, but Gary Bettman is rigging it anyway, running a massive risk of corruption charges and paying off a whole room-full of people each year for their silence (and must be paying a hefty amount for not even one person to blow the whistle in all this time). And, of course, you're alleging that, even after seeing how Sidney Crosby resurrected a Pittsburgh market from the brink of relocation and made them a huge cash-cow for the league again, he's come to the conclusion that the most sensible course is to gift number one picks to the rock-solid markets that don't really have any room for growth anyway.

Maybe stop and think about it. I know you probably come onto this topic with long-standing pre-existing hatred for the concept of a salary cap, for some reason. Maybe it's because you enjoyed what the Rangers did pre-cap. Maybe it's because you're a Yankees fan? Not sure. But your arguments here are extremely sloppy and not at all sensible.
Maybe I hate the cap because the league is garbage?

You might be enjoying it, which is bizarre but I'm not one to judge, but I haven't watched the NHL in weeks and haven't missed it at all.

Listen to what you're saying. The cap forces you to draft well every year and have a constant shuffling of ELC's? Yeah, that f***ing blows. We all lose half our team every year.

In 2013-14 I had the pleasure of watching the Rangers in the SCF. Within four years, I've lost almost that entire team. It sucks. It's depressing, it's boring, it's frustrating, it's disheartening. It f***ing sucks.

Stepan, Brassard, Richards, Hagelin, Pouliot, Boyle, Stralman, Klein, Girardi if you're into that kind of thing, and soon to be McDonagh. That's the price of contending in a hard cap league. Say goodbye to your entire f***ing team that you spent years building.
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,274
5,270
- eliminate salary cap
- draft position based on team salary (less money -> better pick)
- can only change team salary by max 10% from one year to next
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
59,406
9,009
Ottawa
The draft lottery is crap too because then the NHL can start putting guys where they want them, and don't think for a second that they won't. It's all about the dollar bill.

The first two years of the lottery, two huge Canadian markets get their saviors. I'm shocked.
Houston we have a conspiracy in the house!
 

beowulf

Not a nice guy.
Jan 29, 2005
59,406
9,009
Ottawa
Maybe I hate the cap because the league is garbage?

You might be enjoying it, which is bizarre but I'm not one to judge, but I haven't watched the NHL in weeks and haven't missed it at all.

Listen to what you're saying. The cap forces you to draft well every year and have a constant shuffling of ELC's? Yeah, that ****ing blows. We all lose half our team every year.

In 2013-14 I had the pleasure of watching the Rangers in the SCF. Within four years, I've lost almost that entire team. It sucks. It's depressing, it's boring, it's frustrating, it's disheartening. It ****ing sucks.

Stepan, Brassard, Richards, Hagelin, Pouliot, Boyle, Stralman, Klein, Girardi if you're into that kind of thing, and soon to be McDonagh. That's the price of contending in a hard cap league. Say goodbye to your entire ****ing team that you spent years building.
Then go watch another sport.

Maybe they should do like baseball and then have the big teams just ignore the cap and pay a penalty like the Red Sox and Yankess always do?
 

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
The NHL rewards "losing" less than any other sport. The Avs were almost historically bad last season and picked 4th overall.
I'm tired of the complaints about the draft lottery. I use to hear how it was "rigged" and then the NHl's last choice for a team to get superstar players kept winning it...
 
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