Post-Game Talk: I hate that team

[CycloneSweep]

Lol, keep making sus negative driveby's and never posting anything else, bud. He's overpaid, they'll manage.



The biggest problem with Nurse is he has to carry the top pairing (Ceci is a 2nd pairing D) and plays too many minutes and feels like he has to do too much, so he does.

I'm far from a fan of Nurse but some of the doomer shit about him is borderline trolling.

The biggest problem with Ceci is he is not a top pair guy and he is forced to cover for his top pair partner who just wants to be a 4th forward.

 

[Oilhawks]

How much do you and oilhawk get paid by the Oilers to look the other way and keep attention away from Nurse on these boards?

Yeah, I’m sure the Oilers pay me to direct attention away from Nurse when I’ve been one of the most vocal about team ownership when things have actually been bad (not like right now, when they’re actually having a decent season), and they definitely pay Drivesaitl, a poster that has also been very critical of the org top to bottom.

At least you admitted in a later post that you’re just here to dogpile on one player after a loss. Great contributions to the forums

 

[BardownMagic]

Is it worth the risk though? I honestly don’t know. He’s the type of player that no matter what move you make with him it has the potential to look bad afterwards. Sign him and get frustrated with his defense. Trade him and get frustrated when he puts up points on another team.

It comes down to your assessment of his ability to adapt and how much you value what he brings if he can’t. I personally think he will adapt on the defensive side, have one of the best breakout passes in the league, and bring elite offence 5v5 and on the PP. That package is probably worth 8-10 million, so taking the risk is all good to me.

If he doesnt become anything more than, say Tyson Barrie defensively, bringing that transition/offensive game still has value. We have barrie at 4.5 and I think that is good value. With inflation/cap increases, over a 7 year deal that is what Bouchard could be as a worst case scenario to me. This also boils down to negotiation, maybe you can get him at 6 years 4.7. Much more likely he wants a bridge/show me. Works for the cap in a way for the peak mcdrai cup window prior to their new contracts. All this has to be considered.

It is interesting how several dman have taken steps back under the new coaching regime though. I would be greatly interested in seeing what a trotz could do for him and others.

 

[BardownMagic]

If I were GM for a day it would be raining pink slips for most of the people below me, especially scouting and that crappy goalie coach.

The goalie coach would be a goner for me too so long as katz gave the budget to entice someone truly elite. Some of the pro scouts would need a big assessment too. The amateur scouts have identified some decent players imo, but the development department would need some heat/additional hires.

Analytics would experience proliferation as well

 

[SwedishFire]

I don't disagree but he's one of those oddities that is almost always hugely in the + column despite all that and even in seasons when the Oilers weren't good, he was barely a -. I remember one year, he was a +15 despite the team being dogshit (Ah yes, I see that was '17-18 when they fell apart following the playoff run) despite making a relatively incredible amount of mistakes pretty much annually. Even last year in the playoffs, he was absolutely horrendous yet ended up as a +5 and I'm pretty sure not every goal scored or against was with McDrai on the ice with him.

Maybe he's just really lucky a lot or it's a huge McDrai bump but the fact of the matter is that the team outscores its opponents significantly when he's on the ice.
I'd love to see his splits with and away from McDavid in particular.
I'm not championing him btw, I just find it odd that his statline never matches his play. Never seen such a spread between stats and eye test with a player. +27, +18 and +11 the last 3 years. I usually don't put a ton of stock into +/- unless it's a large sample size which his is.
He must be doing a lot more right than wrong, I don't see that but it shows up in the GF/GA column every year basically. Confusing.

Then you look at Bouchard and see a -12 which DOES match the eye test. I'd like to see how much he plays with the bottom 6 and wonder how much that plays into his heavy - numbers.

Wich players, except McD do Drai mesh best with?
Lets do a line with them
We know McD gels best with Nuge, Hyman, Kane - stars of the stars...
Maybe Kostin actually should be tested whitin McD.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Trading Bouchard would be the Petry trade on steroids. You don’t win that trade.

There's almost no way to even break even on that trade, because Bouchard is seriously underrated right now and he's going to improve. If he went to a team where he got PP1 minutes and didn't have his every mistake dissected like an 8th grader with a cow's eye, he'd get 50 points in his sleep.

 

[BardownMagic]

Wich players, except McD do Drai mesh best with?
Lets do a line with them
We know McD gels best with Nuge, Hyman, Kane - stars of the stars...
Maybe Kostin actually should be tested whitin McD.

McD definitely requires his line mates to be very talented. A lot of the plays he makes require people with high hockey iq and above average hands/shooting ability. This one of the few areas crosby has him beat at. Crosby could play with anyone and have them putting up numbers.

McDavid did this with maroon, but he had all the above pre reqs. It seems his game is a little rigid these days and he has his linemates adapt to him rather than adapting to them. He is the best player in the world so you live with it, but it would be nice to see more maroons be able to succeed there.

Drai, imo, takes on the grinder/playmaker/sniper role as is needed. He too has gotten a little more rigid over the years, but he still adapts to line mates well.

 

[Traveled]

Yeah, I’m sure the Oilers pay me to direct attention away from Nurse when I’ve been one of the most vocal about team ownership when things have actually been bad (not like right now, when they’re actually having a decent season), and they definitely pay Drivesaitl, a poster that has also been very critical of the org top to bottom.

At least you admitted in a later post that you’re just here to dogpile on one player after a loss. Great contributions to the forums

You aren't vocal against the Oilers, maybe in the past but lately? You have submitted to management's way of staffing this team and it's pathetic. Eventually, you can take your head out of the sand and recognize even though the Oilers are having an ok season, which is all deceiving, this team was not built to win. Their d is junk and their forwards are lazy.

The #1 culprit is Nurse with his low on-ice IQ.

 

[BardownMagic]

You aren't vocal against the Oilers, maybe in the past but lately? You have submitted to management's way of staffing this team and it's pathetic. Eventually, you can take your head out of the sand and recognize even though the Oilers are having an ok season, which is all deceiving, this team was not built to win. Their d is junk and their forwards are lazy.

The #1 culprit is Nurse with his low on-ice IQ.

Nurse is not the #1 problem. That is not having a second top 4 LHD. Nurse needs to be better with some of his gaffs, but he is not the biggest problem. The d was constructed poorly as a group, I agree.

 

[9GWG9]

Amazing how we can let a game like this slip away. How do we duplicate holding other teams to half of the shots they normally get?

Ah finally Nurse in no good is gaining traction among the group.

 

[CupofOil]

Over the last 3 years 5 vs 5.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Thanks. Interesting that Nurse is "only" a -8 at 5 on 5 over the last 3 years away from McDavid and Draisaitl. I actually think that's not so bad all things considered.

It's possible that we all focus on the mistakes with Nurse too much and not the actual results, I don't know. He's certainly not worth his contract but he does perform admirably as the #1 Dman on this team which the results bear out. It's kind of like Mike Smith, he'd make head scratching decisions with the puck but he almost always produced good results wins/save pct. Both high event players whose positives outweighed the negatives ultimately.

I think most can agree, even the Nurse detractors, that the biggest problem is that 2nd pairing. Bouchard is getting eaten alive this season. He's the one who is really sticking out as having the biggest defensive lapses this season. Some might not want to admit it but he's really missing Keith's presence on and likely off the ice as well. A steadying vet who can stabilize the 2nd pairing is an absolute must if they want to make a playoff run.

 

[OddManRush]

Wrong. They played on Friday

Today is Monday…last was literally the day before yesterday.

You’re right thought. Everyone but Skinner took the night off and they should feel shitty about it.

Wrong. They played on Friday.

In any case, hopefully they have a fire lit under their ass now for Nashville.

 

[Duke74]

I can’t decide if Bouchard is someone you want to trade before his big raise, or someone you want to keep around for his prime.

He’s the exact kind of player that makes GMs look bad either way lol. Either he gets signed to a big contract and you get frustrated with his defense, or he gets traded away and you get frustrated when he puts up 60 points somewhere else.

Or take advantage of his recent struggles and sign him to a cheap long-term contract now.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Or take advantage of his recent struggles and sign him to a cheap long-term contract now.

Nah let's wait until he's on a hot streak and sign him to a bloated deal. It's the Oiler way.

 

[Oilhawks]

You aren't vocal against the Oilers, maybe in the past but lately? You have submitted to management's way of staffing this team and it's pathetic. Eventually, you can take your head out of the sand and recognize even though the Oilers are having an ok season, which is all deceiving, this team was not built to win. Their d is junk and their forwards are lazy.

The #1 culprit is Nurse with his low on-ice IQ.

Pathetic? Maybe lay off the ad hominem. You may not give a shit about it, but this is supposed to be a community. I have no problem with your hyperbolic critiques and many here make similar, but it’s bad form when all you’ve done is spew toxicity and rabble rouse from post 1. If you’re looking for somewhere to vent, maybe try Facebook or something where no one cares?

And who are you to criticize my recent posting? It’s up to you to look at my past posts, not my problem if you don’t like that I’ve been more positive lately. You can go and find one of my more recent posts as to why I don’t intend to be constantly miserable about millionaires playing a children’s game. It’s up to you if you want to be, but don’t get all upset if others call you out on it

You can go back even further and see that I’ve always preferred Klefbom and if given the choice I’d rather a healthy Klefbom than Nurse. (I’ve questioned Nurse’s hockey IQ in the past as well.) But I’d also rather have an overpaid and overworked Nurse than no top pairing D at all. If they let Nurse walk, do you have a legitimate actual solution as to who they would have picked up in his spot?

 

[SwedishFire]

McD definitely requires his line mates to be very talented. A lot of the plays he makes require people with high hockey iq and above average hands/shooting ability. This one of the few areas crosby has him beat at. Crosby could play with anyone and have them putting up numbers.

McDavid did this with maroon, but he had all the above pre reqs. It seems his game is a little rigid these days and he has his linemates adapt to him rather than adapting to them. He is the best player in the world so you live with it, but it would be nice to see more maroons be able to succeed there.

Drai, imo, takes on the grinder/playmaker/sniper role as is needed. He too has gotten a little more rigid over the years, but he still adapts to line mates well.

I will be slaughtered here for saying tjis, but I think that one thing making lesser talent put up numbers shows Crosbys is in overall package a stronger talent. McD on the other hand has better pure offensive talent.
And I think McD has been forced to do it all by himself through at the years - also thanks to what he was in junior, and he got used to it.

OfC Draisaitl loves to score goals, I can feel that, so its isnt for him just as fun to grind it out time to time. Wich is a shame.
It is a problem that the worlds best player demands a stacked line to be effective. I know he had a hard time here, but thats bad.

So we cant slide in Kostin, Järnmark, Holloway, McLeod to McD- we know it wont fit him. McLeod would be interesting. And 10% chance that Kostin could have some chemistry with him - He seems to be good at all the things McDavid isnt good at.

So the safe way
Nuge McD Hyman
Järnmark Draisaitl Kostin
Fog Hamblin Yamamoto
Holloway Ryan Jesse

If we had Crosby instead I would do

Holloway Crosby Kostin
Nuge Draisaitl Hyman
Fog Hamblin/McLeod Yam
Järnmark Ryan jess

If Kane is back, he would be on 1st line.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

Tough game, the Wild are a decent team and they will be really good once they get rid of the 25M dead cap, but, I digress.
Its the "tough sledding" part of the schedule, that game could have gone either way. The good news is we have 1/2 a dozen ahead of us that we should gather a bunch of points from.
Lessons learned.

 

[K1984]

Thanks. Interesting that Nurse is "only" a -8 at 5 on 5 over the last 3 years away from McDavid and Draisaitl. I actually think that's not so bad all things considered.

It's possible that we all focus on the mistakes with Nurse too much and not the actual results, I don't know. He's certainly not worth his contract but he does perform admirably as the #1 Dman on this team which the results bear out. It's kind of like Mike Smith, he'd make head scratching decisions with the puck but he almost always produced good results wins/save pct. Both high event players whose positives outweighed the negatives ultimately.

I think most can agree, even the Nurse detractors, that the biggest problem is that 2nd pairing. Bouchard is getting eaten alive this season. He's the one who is really sticking out as having the biggest defensive lapses this season. Some might not want to admit it but he's really missing Keith's presence on and likely off the ice as well. A steadying vet who can stabilize the 2nd pairing is an absolute must if they want to make a playoff run.

To me Nurse today is like McDavid and Drai in 2017-2020. Does basically all the heavy lifting, the team would be in the basement without him, but when he's the one responsible for doing everything because his peers are useless he will be more prone to making mistakes and burning out.

If we had a reliable, middle of the road steady contributing second pair that took a few minutes off his hands then he would probably look way, way better than he does today. In the season where he looked like a $9M player he had a second pair steadied by Larsson behind him. Hasn't had anything resembling that reliability backing him up since.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oilers get beat 2-1 in a game in which they had only 20 SOG while having several PP's and half the thread surmising Nurse as the culprit. Seems like fault finding is random again.

 

[oXo Cube]

Oilers get beat 2-1 in a game in which they had only 20 SOG while having several PP's and half the thread surmising Nurse as the culprit. Seems like fault finding is random again.

It's the exact opposite of random. The agendas never end.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Oilers get beat 2-1 in a game in which they had only 20 SOG while having several PP's and half the thread surmising Nurse as the culprit. Seems like fault finding is random again.

Nurse was publicly called out by one of the Wild players, hence the discussion.

 

[Nunymare]

Oilers get beat 2-1 in a game in which they had only 20 SOG while having several PP's and half the thread surmising Nurse as the culprit. Seems like fault finding is random again.

Seems pretty standard for this board, actually.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

But can you win with him making 5-6M a year? I don’t know the answer tbh.

Probably. We’ve been looking for a scoring RHD with upside for 20 years. Yeah his defensive acumen isn’t exactly elite but it will improve.

There’s trades you make and trades you don’t make. This is a trade you don’t make.

 

[Cloned]

Probably. We’ve been looking for a scoring RHD with upside for 20 years. Yeah his defensive acumen isn’t exactly elite but it will improve.

There’s trades you make and trades you don’t make. This is a trade you don’t make.

Depends on what you can get back I think.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Oilers get beat 2-1 in a game in which they had only 20 SOG while having several PP's and half the thread surmising Nurse as the culprit. Seems like fault finding is random again.

An unbiased analysis of the game would probably point to our inability to shoot the f***ing puck as the major reason for the loss.