Post-Game Talk: I hate that team

[ChaoticOrange]

As I said last year--- Nurse isnt good enough yet---he may eventually be one of the better D in the league just based on experience, toughness, athleticism, and other guys dropping off. I said maybe he gets a lot better and earns that paycheck this year but him "earning" it will likely have more to do with cap going up and relative contracts going up so that his contract/minutes become feasible in a year or two.

(please award me my stanley cup of cynical shit posting)

In any case--I also agree it isnt addition by subtraction as they dont really have anyone else and he is a core piece in the room and is just generally that dedicated to hockey and the NHL. Maybe if Bouchard or Broberg start carrying a paring then you can think about moving Nurse---and by then he will be more palatable.

So I've suggested trading him hypothetically---usually for cap reasons to make the deal work--but I dont addition by subtraction. He is good he just cant carry the entire d group or defensive structure --- I'd have to watch Hedman or Josi but I dont see how they could be making the same amount of glaring mistakes on nobody players as Nurse does sometimes--thats the addition by subtraction element but finding someone at his level that is more consistent is basically asking for a legit 1D from another team. Chycrun seems like the only thing close and we arnt even convinced he is better than Nurse IMO.

Nurse is 28 in February. Not a ton of guys take a big leap forward at that point.

 

[CupofOil]

Last I saw Nurse has very positive analytics almost across the board.

His incompetence doesn't show in those numbers because he can play 95% of a really strong game, but make two or three monumentally stupid plays that would make even the greenest rookie blush that negate the 95% of any good.

I don't disagree but he's one of those oddities that is almost always hugely in the + column despite all that and even in seasons when the Oilers weren't good, he was barely a -. I remember one year, he was a +15 despite the team being dogshit (Ah yes, I see that was '17-18 when they fell apart following the playoff run) despite making a relatively incredible amount of mistakes pretty much annually. Even last year in the playoffs, he was absolutely horrendous yet ended up as a +5 and I'm pretty sure not every goal scored or against was with McDrai on the ice with him.

Maybe he's just really lucky a lot or it's a huge McDrai bump but the fact of the matter is that the team outscores its opponents significantly when he's on the ice.
I'd love to see his splits with and away from McDavid in particular.
I'm not championing him btw, I just find it odd that his statline never matches his play. Never seen such a spread between stats and eye test with a player. +27, +18 and +11 the last 3 years. I usually don't put a ton of stock into +/- unless it's a large sample size which his is.
He must be doing a lot more right than wrong, I don't see that but it shows up in the GF/GA column every year basically. Confusing.

Then you look at Bouchard and see a -12 which DOES match the eye test. I'd like to see how much he plays with the bottom 6 and wonder how much that plays into his heavy - numbers.

 

[SwedishFire]

It's quite telling when fan-declared 'bust' Broberg looks rock-steady in comparison.

How can Broberg look so meh three monts ago, and now looks poised?

And why do fans belive players plays great 82 games straight?

 

[SwedishFire]

Holland will not trade 1sts or top prospects. This is why detroit did not win more than one cup even with zetts/datsyuks/lidstrom/kronwall/everyone else in the cap world.

We need a young gm ready to make bold moves with creativity.


Top 31 dman vs a true #1. A lot of people try to conflate the two, but that is like saying a logan couture has the same impact as a mcdavid or mackinnon or even eichel.

I would like to see once in my lifetime, a fan gets the chance to become a GM. I wonder how that would turn out
In reality.

Probably do some good mives, but half of them would look stupid after som months. Quick fix esque.

 

[BardownMagic]

I would like to see once in my lifetime, a fan gets the chance to become a GM. I wonder how that would turn out
In reality.

Probably do some good mives, but half of them would look stupid after som months. Quick fix esque.

It would be interesting. Probably depend on the fan; someone with the proper hockey knowledge, analytical capabilities, and commitment could succeed. This is fantasy land though, just look at who got hired for assistant gm. Maybe if you happened to run into someone and become friends they would listen.

 

[Traveled]

I’m their agent. I was able to get each signed for slightly less than 9.5Million, each, per season. They are short term deals though. But it’s a fair deal for all sides.

As a relatively new poster, your first post here was a negative post against the Oilers on their own Boards, stating you’d rather cheer for the Senators. Feel free to wander over that way.

I think we know what you are.

You do? Enlighten me.

 

[K1984]

It would be interesting. Probably depend on the fan; someone with the proper hockey knowledge, analytical capabilities, and commitment could succeed. This is fantasy land though, just look at who got hired for assistant gm. Maybe if you happened to run into someone and become friends they would listen, but the nepotism hockey league doesnt like outsiders.

I can't remember the exact year or decade (I think it was the 50's), but the Blackhawks owner at the time hired some guy he sat next to on a train to be their new head coach because he was impressed with his hockey knowledge. Unsurprisingly he didn't last long.

Wish my memory was better to fill in the blanks and I'm too lazy to google it.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It would be interesting. Probably depend on the fan; someone with the proper hockey knowledge, analytical capabilities, and commitment could succeed. This is fantasy land though, just look at who got hired for assistant gm. Maybe if you happened to run into someone and become friends they would listen, but the nepotism hockey league doesnt like outsiders.

If I were GM for a day it would be raining pink slips for most of the people below me, especially scouting and that crappy goalie coach.

 

[Drivesaitl]

How much do you and oilhawk get paid by the Oilers to look the other way and keep attention away from Nurse on these boards?

I re-upped my contract 5 yrs ago for less term and more dollars.

Who rings your bell when the Oilers lose a game?

 

[Traveled]

I re-upped my contract 5 yrs ago for less term and more dollars.

Who rings your bell when the Oilers lose a game?

The ghost from the decades of darkness.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not sure Minny plays such a smothering style.

There were three things that hurt us last night.

Bad passes in offensive zone. Sure some times you're gonna have a bad one when you are trying to get it through a lot of bodies. However, we had lots that weren't close to being on the stick.

Not shooting. Hyman 5 shots, Mcdavid 3 rest of forwards 4. If Hamblin can find a way to get one in 9 minutes of play the others need to find a way to get more on net. Stop looking for the perfect pass.

The Wild's forecheck on our d-men was impressive. When a team is that quick on the forecheck our forwards have to backcheck and give support so there are quick outlet passes available. Can't be sitting in the neutral zone as a forward when the Wild have 1 or 2 guys on the d-men

Yeah. Its probably OK to give that team some credit. They lost Fiala and are missing some appreciable offence. Most pundits thought they would have more trouble. But the battle level of the Wild in all zones is hard to dislike. They play a good honest game and players adhering. They don't give up much. Looking at stats we're one goal down in third period and we had two PP's in that period and we only got 6 SOG. 2 of them were bang bang shots on the same plays.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Yeah. Its probably OK to give that team some credit. They lost Fiala and are missing some appreciable offence. Most pundits thought they would have more trouble. But the battle level of the Wild in all zones is hard to dislike. They play a good honest game and players adhering. They don't give up much. Looking at stats we're one goal down in third period and we had two PP's in that period and we only got 6 SOG. 2 of them were bang bang shots on the same plays.

The Wild played well but the Oilers passed up more than one glorious opportunity to shoot.

Lol that 3-on-1 couldn't have been played any worse. You have McDavid, Draisatl and Nurse and you force a pass to friggin Nurse....

 

[BardownMagic]

I can't remember the exact year or decade (I think it was the 50's), but the Blackhawks owner at the time hired some guy he sat next to on a train to be their new head coach because he was impressed with his hockey knowledge. Unsurprisingly he didn't last long.

Wish my memory was better to fill in the blanks and I'm too lazy to google it.

GM/hockey ops vs coach is slightly different. Not the biggest sample size though. A lot of the success would also depend on relying on the support staff(like any GM), but I think it could work. Like I said though, most likely will be a while before we see something like that.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The Wild played well but the Oilers passed up more than one glorious opportunity to shoot.

Lol that 3-on-1 couldn't have been played any worse. You have McDavid, Draisatl and Nurse and you force a pass to friggin Nurse....

meh. Drai and McD are virtually automatic on 2 on 1's. In some cases the third can create a distraction, it results in too much thought about what play to make. I would say in the case of McDrai having a third on a rush is almost counter productive. They do better as a dyad. In anycase I'm never gonna complain about how McDrai handle odd man breaks.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

I can’t decide if Bouchard is someone you want to trade before his big raise, or someone you want to keep around for his prime.

He’s the exact kind of player that makes GMs look bad either way lol. Either he gets signed to a big contract and you get frustrated with his defense, or he gets traded away and you get frustrated when he puts up 60 points somewhere else.

Trading Bouchard would be the Petry trade on steroids. You don’t win that trade.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

meh. Drai and McD are virtually automatic on 2 on 1's. In some cases the third can create a distraction, it results in too much thought about what play to make. I would say in the case of McDrai having a third on a rush is almost counter productive. They do better as a dyad. In anycase I'm never gonna complain about how McDrai handle odd man breaks.

Well they gassed the few odd man rushes they did have. You're on a seven game goal scoring streak, just shoot the damn puck.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The ghost from the decades of darkness.

Should have used plural in the retort. Would be good timely reply.

 

[K1984]

GM/hockey ops vs coach is slightly different. Not the biggest sample size though. A lot of the success would also depend on relying on the support staff(like any GM), but I think it could work. Like I said though, most likely will be a while before we see something like that.

GM's in today's age have to be professionally qualified managers that have experience in professional management, contract management and negotiation. GM's now are all either lawyers or former players that have had a good amount of seasoning as a management trainee. It's more of a CEO/COO type of role than just a guy moving players around based on their knowledge of the game like it used to be.

 

[joestevens29]

Trading Bouchard would be the Petry trade on steroids. You don’t win that trade.

Well ya if we wait until there are a couple months left on his current contract going into UFA. All while pissing the player off the previous off-season in the media

 

[Cloned]

Trading Bouchard would be the Petry trade on steroids. You don’t win that trade.

But can you win with him making 5-6M a year? I don’t know the answer tbh.

 

[BardownMagic]

GM's in today's age have to be professionally qualified managers that have experience in professional management, contract management and negotiation. GM's now are all either lawyers or former players that have had a good amount of seasoning as a management trainee. It's more of a CEO/COO type of role than just a guy moving players around based on their knowledge of the game like it used to be.

It depends. The business aspect is important no doubt, but that is where support staff/colleagues can fill the gap. The primary responsibility of the GM should be team construction. You need knowledge of professional management, negotiation, contracts, etc. as you said, but most of that can be learned as you pointed out with the management trainee path. The critical part is being able to identify talent and construct a hockey team. You can have a lawyer on staff to work out the finer details of a contract/cba matters, but if you understand how stats, pv/fv, negotiation, and other matters work, then your ability to identify talent, execute a team construction/direction, and acquire/retain talent is more important. For example, having a trade your looking at and have a lawyer/accountant figure out the cap ramifications; one of the key examples is how salary paid out during the season can make you have more cap space than it appears at the deadline. Just look at the draft, a GM needs to be able to have support staff he trusts to identify talent, but he should be watching footage(or better live gameplay) and making his own assessment prior to signing off on any pick. His talent assessment/direction for roster construction/ability to identify what will be the most valuable piece(whether for trade or to contribute to his team) is the most important part there, even though he has to manage those scouts.

It’s always been a dream of mine(like many others), that’s why I did a business degree and plan on going to law school and integrating myself with the hockey club. It will most likely never happen, but being a lawyer isn’t the worst career as a fallback

 

[Fourier]

I don't disagree but he's one of those oddities that is almost always hugely in the + column despite all that and even in seasons when the Oilers weren't good, he was barely a -. I remember one year, he was a +15 despite the team being dogshit (Ah yes, I see that was '17-18 when they fell apart following the playoff run) despite making a relatively incredible amount of mistakes pretty much annually. Even last year in the playoffs, he was absolutely horrendous yet ended up as a +5 and I'm pretty sure not every goal scored or against was with McDrai on the ice with him.

Maybe he's just really lucky a lot or it's a huge McDrai bump but the fact of the matter is that the team outscores its opponents significantly when he's on the ice.
I'd love to see his splits with and away from McDavid in particular.
I'm not championing him btw, I just find it odd that his statline never matches his play. Never seen such a spread between stats and eye test with a player. +27, +18 and +11 the last 3 years. I usually don't put a ton of stock into +/- unless it's a large sample size which his is.
He must be doing a lot more right than wrong, I don't see that but it shows up in the GF/GA column every year basically. Confusing.

Then you look at Bouchard and see a -12 which DOES match the eye test. I'd like to see how much he plays with the bottom 6 and wonder how much that plays into his heavy - numbers.

Over the last 3 years 5 vs 5.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[BardownMagic]

But can you win with him making 5-6M a year? I don’t know the answer tbh.

At this rate, the oilers will be able to bridge him for 2-3 years at a bargain. Not ideal since you would like to have him locked up when drai/mcd come up, but maybe you can get him to bite on a deal that will look criminal once he breaks out. This is a player who will be a top 4 dman long term; the question is will he be a top pair? At 5.1 for 7 years, probably worth the risk.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Looks like it's Bouchard's turn under the Oilers media bus.

 

[Cloned]

At this rate, the oilers will be able to bridge him for 2-3 years at a bargain. Not ideal since you would like to have him locked up when drai/mcd come up, but maybe you can get him to bite on a deal that will look criminal once he breaks out. This is a player who will be a top 4 dman long term; the question is will he be a top pair? At 5.1 for 7 years, probably worth the risk.

Is it worth the risk though? I honestly don’t know. He’s the type of player that no matter what move you make with him it has the potential to look bad afterwards. Sign him and get frustrated with his defense. Trade him and get frustrated when he puts up points on another team.