I hate how 90% of goals are fluky in today’s game.
- Thread starter Marshmallow Man
- Start date
This is what would separate the elite goalie from the average one. The goaltending position is very easy to replace because the gap between the elite goalies and the mediocre ones is way too small.
Then it would just be a different form of basketball, team that gets the ball/puck first usually win
This thread is really stupid. Goalies have improved and with that, expectations for goalies have improved as well. Every time a goalie lets in a shot that he saw all the way, fans and commentators alike will all say "ah he let in a softie" even if the shot is like 105 mph.
There's absolutely nothing fluky about today's goals. This is the high percentage way of playing hockey. Not because every deflection goes in, it doesn't, but because the set up and execution is high percentage. Put the puck in a corner where you have a 50/50 chance of winning the puck. Pass it back up to the point defenseman, that pass is like 90% completion rate. He can go D to D at the line if necessary, again very high percentage passes. Then a shot from the point, and there are many stacking percentages here. The chance that the puck goes straight through the goalie is low, but it is even increased if you have a screening forward in front obstructing his vision for at least part of the puck's travel time. To do this, you have to practice being in position to screen the goalie, say off faceoffs or winning on the forecheck. Then there is a chance that the puck will be deflect, tipped, and there are positions to maximize these possibilities as well, ideally you both screen the goalie and have position to tip the puck, but also standing to the side of the goalie can allow for this, shoot to an area where the puck will be deflected. There is even the chance that the puck will hit a defender's body and go in. Then there is the chance that the initial shot with be blocked + the chance the tip will be blocked and the resulting rebound will be in a position where a defenseman who has been winning the positional battle in front of the net will be able to get his stick on it and put in on the goalie. So it's a simple play, but it has a very high percentage set up and many possible ways it can lead to goals.
That's why there are a lot of players who can pad their own stats because maybe they can score this flashy goal, they get out super far in front of their teammates where there's no possibility for a screen and the goalie will see the puck all the way, they pass a lot east to west which can be tipped by active sticks, they maybe have a cool shot that they can unleash and beat some goaltenders who weren't screened and they look amazing. But like, that's all low percentage stuff. Even if they are super good at that, and they score one goal per game, IF their team cannot run the high percentage play that I just described above, they will lose. Because all you need to do to beat them is score 2 goals per game. No one else on their team can replicate that type of play. If the rest of their team cannot score in high percentage ways, they just lose, even though they had one awesome player who seemingly is very impactful, he is not actually that impactful. He is just the guy who made himself look good by scoring the team's only goal in a 1-3, 1-4 loss. And that's the best case scenario because that's assuming star player scores his low percentage goals once a game. Most players don't score a goal per game. Worst case scenario, what if they don't get a powerplay called for them, or they get unlucky bounces on the powerplay, or they don't get an opportune mistake leading to some break scenario. If that star player can't get his low percentage goals to go, then suddenly the team lacks scoring. That's why it's important to play good system hockey. The ability to capitalize on transitions and mistakes from your opponents is great, but you also, perhaps more importantly, need to be able to execute high percentage plays to maximize your scoring chances.
There's absolutely nothing fluky about today's goals. This is the high percentage way of playing hockey. Not because every deflection goes in, it doesn't, but because the set up and execution is high percentage. Put the puck in a corner where you have a 50/50 chance of winning the puck. Pass it back up to the point defenseman, that pass is like 90% completion rate. He can go D to D at the line if necessary, again very high percentage passes. Then a shot from the point, and there are many stacking percentages here. The chance that the puck goes straight through the goalie is low, but it is even increased if you have a screening forward in front obstructing his vision for at least part of the puck's travel time. To do this, you have to practice being in position to screen the goalie, say off faceoffs or winning on the forecheck. Then there is a chance that the puck will be deflect, tipped, and there are positions to maximize these possibilities as well, ideally you both screen the goalie and have position to tip the puck, but also standing to the side of the goalie can allow for this, shoot to an area where the puck will be deflected. There is even the chance that the puck will hit a defender's body and go in. Then there is the chance that the initial shot with be blocked + the chance the tip will be blocked and the resulting rebound will be in a position where a defenseman who has been winning the positional battle in front of the net will be able to get his stick on it and put in on the goalie. So it's a simple play, but it has a very high percentage set up and many possible ways it can lead to goals.
That's why there are a lot of players who can pad their own stats because maybe they can score this flashy goal, they get out super far in front of their teammates where there's no possibility for a screen and the goalie will see the puck all the way, they pass a lot east to west which can be tipped by active sticks, they maybe have a cool shot that they can unleash and beat some goaltenders who weren't screened and they look amazing. But like, that's all low percentage stuff. Even if they are super good at that, and they score one goal per game, IF their team cannot run the high percentage play that I just described above, they will lose. Because all you need to do to beat them is score 2 goals per game. No one else on their team can replicate that type of play. If the rest of their team cannot score in high percentage ways, they just lose, even though they had one awesome player who seemingly is very impactful, he is not actually that impactful. He is just the guy who made himself look good by scoring the team's only goal in a 1-3, 1-4 loss. And that's the best case scenario because that's assuming star player scores his low percentage goals once a game. Most players don't score a goal per game. Worst case scenario, what if they don't get a powerplay called for them, or they get unlucky bounces on the powerplay, or they don't get an opportune mistake leading to some break scenario. If that star player can't get his low percentage goals to go, then suddenly the team lacks scoring. That's why it's important to play good system hockey. The ability to capitalize on transitions and mistakes from your opponents is great, but you also, perhaps more importantly, need to be able to execute high percentage plays to maximize your scoring chances.
JPeeper
Hail Satan!
- Jan 4, 2015
- 11,633
- 8,764
The thesis of the thread is players have no offensive skill anymore which is bullshit in the first place. That's why I said if you put McDavid back then he should destroy the league, context and reading comprehension would do you wonders.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
MikeyMike01
U.S.S. Wang
No need to insult me. This is a discussion thread therefore people may have a different opinion than you and may wish to discuss it. I happen to not agree with the OP. I think the offensive skill of the current game is extremely vibrant. But I'm also very tired of the time machine argument that is a pointless take that goes nowhere. Why don't we put Lemieux back in the 1950s when they couldn't even take a slap shot and see him score 300 pts....pointless observation given the constant development of the game over time.
I was a basketball fan. Just a big a fan of that sport as I am of hockey now. And it's not nearly the game that it used to be. I've tried to watch it since I've stopped, and I just can't do it. It's all 3s with no defense. And that's just a couple of the many problems with it.
Back in the 80s and 90s (especially the early part of the 90s), basketball made you watch it. It drew you in.
Today's game is nothing close to that.
MK9
Registered User
"90% of the goals are flukey."
Nope.
" 99.99% of the time, if the goalie can see the puck, he is going to stop the puck."
More nope.
"see not only the decrease in scoring and offensive skill"
What? Just, no.
"damn near 90% of goals are scored off random deflections"
Making up numbers, doesn't make your math correct. You and math are not going to be friends now or any time in the future.
You're also nuts if you think deflections aren't a skill. How do you think guys like Messier, Cicarelli, Holmstrom, etc. made their living? I watched guys like Messier practice and give examples to TV shows, etc. exactly how they did it. I grew up in the 80's and watched the 90's NHL. The 80's was fun. But, the defensive game wasn't anywhere near what it was in the 90's and now today. And the 90's was just...left wing lock/neutral zone trap.
The entire OP is so off base, it's not even funny.
Nope.
" 99.99% of the time, if the goalie can see the puck, he is going to stop the puck."
More nope.
"see not only the decrease in scoring and offensive skill"
What? Just, no.
"damn near 90% of goals are scored off random deflections"
Making up numbers, doesn't make your math correct. You and math are not going to be friends now or any time in the future.
You're also nuts if you think deflections aren't a skill. How do you think guys like Messier, Cicarelli, Holmstrom, etc. made their living? I watched guys like Messier practice and give examples to TV shows, etc. exactly how they did it. I grew up in the 80's and watched the 90's NHL. The 80's was fun. But, the defensive game wasn't anywhere near what it was in the 90's and now today. And the 90's was just...left wing lock/neutral zone trap.
The entire OP is so off base, it's not even funny.
13th Floor
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2008
- 19,025
- 8,472
I'd argue that analytics have turned most games into this. I think we saw the same changes in baseball (3 true outcomes) and we are seeing the same thing in hockey, albeit to a lesser extent because the analytics are further behind in such a fluid game. It actually fits right into what the OP is talking about. Hockey analytics make it easier for teams to see what's working and to try and shut that down moreso than finding some strategy that is quantifiable to exploit for more offense.
Teams playing the "probabilities" and in the "right way" is probably most effective but it f***ing sucks to watch.
We are not trying to do either, we watch the games for entertainment. Granted nobody force me to watch so I stopped for the most part as I find them boring nowadays. Zero fights, very little feelings, robotic goalies, interviews and so on. Nobody can convince me todays hockey is close to as entertaining as that of, say, 20 years ago.
Fair enough, won't argue that the game is more entertaining as that is subjective. But strategy always revolves around winning nothing else, especially entertainment.
ohheyhemsky
Regehr DooDoo
I like how the first comment in this thread is OP agreeing with himself in a passive aggressive tone, as if no one agreed with him, before anyone had anything to say.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 15,908
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You can see with this picture how much better skilled goalies are today which has led to a larger degree of randomness and luck.
But dont worry by 2045 these new lighter pads combined with the bigger better skilled goalies should improve the situation
But dont worry by 2045 these new lighter pads combined with the bigger better skilled goalies should improve the situation
Marshmallow Man
Registered User
- Nov 6, 2020
- 266
- 366
So nearly every goal last night (game 1 of the finals) went in off a fluky deflection, a screen, or a tip-in.
Clog the front of the net with any many bodies as possible, then fire the puck into the crowd, hoping it randomly bounces off someone and into the net.
Sorry, but that’s just not fun to watch.
Clog the front of the net with any many bodies as possible, then fire the puck into the crowd, hoping it randomly bounces off someone and into the net.
Sorry, but that’s just not fun to watch.
Lolonegoal
Registered User
- Jan 25, 2012
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danyhabsfan
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