Hypothetical: Would you take Evander Kane if it meant we also get Tomas Hertl?

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Evander Kane the player would absolutely give this team the shot in the arm they need. Evander Kane the person is not worth the headache and the aggro he draws from everyone else.

 

[themelkman]

If the sharks are trading Hertl, they plan to suck a long time meaning we dont really care if we have to pay Kane to sit at home, so this premise wouldnt really fit. Only thing that matters in a Hertl trade is getting a top 50 prospect and a first imo.

 

[Body Checker]

When Kane is on he is a top 5 power forward in the NHL. The guy dropped the gloves with Ryan Reaves. That's some big gonads there. But we don't have an Iggy in the room right now. Lucic might keep him in line a bit but he's a 4th liner so alot less credibility.

 

[Kranix]

I wanted Kane back when he was traded to the Sharks for a 1st. Tre decided to use his 1st to acquire Travis Hamonic.

 

[Darth Vladar]

I wanted Kane back when he was traded to the Sharks for a 1st. Tre decided to use his 1st to acquire Travis Hamonic.

I don't know what he was thinking. Hamonic was -21 the year before the Flames acquired him.

 

[Body Checker]

I don't know what he was thinking. Hamonic was -21 the year before the Flames acquired him.

Treliving isn't really that progressive or forward thinking. Just because you have an analytics department doesn't make you cutting edge. Need to spend big on skill and offence cuz there are always bargains on the "defensive defenceman" and "veteran defensive forward" sales racks. What leverage did Gudbranson have for a $1.9 mil contract?????

 

[Darth Vladar]

Treliving isn't really that progressive or forward thinking. Just because you have an analytics department doesn't make you cutting edge. Need to spend big on skill and offence cuz there are always bargains on the "defensive defenceman" and "veteran defensive forward" sales racks. What leverage did Gudbranson have for a $1.9 mil contract?????

I agree with you that analytics don't tell the whole story, but it wasn't even just the +/- though. Hamonic hadn't even played a full season seven years into his career to that point, and only managed to crack 30 pts once. In his last season with the Isles before we acquired him, he had 3g and 14pts in 49 games. For a 1st and two 2nds. That is just a bad trade. Edit: it didn't dawn on me until now that Guddy was the one who took him out.

 

[Darth Vladar]

The problem with not knowing the truth is that people are left to assume the worst. It would be a shame if Kane were being set up, whether by his estranged partner or by the league. I hope for his sake that he is cleared of everything and can get back to hockey.

Kane will not participate in Sharks training camp — The Fourth Period

 

[Anglesmith]

The problem with not knowing the truth is that people are left to assume the worst. It would be a shame if Kane were being set up, whether by his estranged partner or by the league. I hope for his sake that he is cleared of everything and can get back to hockey.

Kane will not participate in Sharks training camp — The Fourth Period

I hope the truth of the matter emerges, for sure.

This creates one of the biggest front office headaches we've ever seen if he ends up being cleared. SJ is a team full of immovable contracts, and the locker room has apparently created a "him or us" scenario while SJ can't realistically get rid of anyone. They absolutely need a contract termination for this to go away, and I have no idea what they'll do if they find no grounds.

I guess they'll just bury Kane and run with a reduced cap? Maybe some team out there will take a chance at him for free towards the end of his contract. His value for dollar isn't terrible on ice, but I just can't imagine any team looking at what's going on in San Jose and saying "we need that."

 

[Darth Vladar]

I hope the truth of the matter emerges, for sure.

This creates one of the biggest front office headaches we've ever seen if he ends up being cleared. SJ is a team full of immovable contracts, and the locker room has apparently created a "him or us" scenario while SJ can't realistically get rid of anyone. They absolutely need a contract termination for this to go away, and I have no idea what they'll do if they find no grounds.

I guess they'll just bury Kane and run with a reduced cap? Maybe some team out there will take a chance at him for free towards the end of his contract. His value for dollar isn't terrible on ice, but I just can't imagine any team looking at what's going on in San Jose and saying "we need that."

Well it ultimately all comes down to whether "that" is in reality what it's being made out to be, and not anything political or otherwise slimy. I know Kane's got a bad rep, but this whole thing stinks to high heaven. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it turns out he is being hung out to dry for other reasons. Not that we'll ever know for sure, either way.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Well it ultimately all comes down to whether "that" is in reality what it's being made out to be, and not anything political or otherwise slimy. I know Kane's got a bad rep, but this whole thing stinks to high heaven. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it turns out he is being hung out to dry for other reasons. Not that we'll ever know for sure, either way.

He's had problems almost everywhere he's been. If this was a first alleged offense situation then I could understand some benefit of the doubt. It's not, we're well into the teens for undesirable Evander Kane stories. He's well known as a poor teammate at this point.

 

[Darth Vladar]

He's had problems almost everywhere he's been. If this was a first alleged offense situation then I could understand some benefit of the doubt. It's not, we're well into the teens for undesirable Evander Kane stories. He's well known as a poor teammate at this point.

I'm not going to go down that road again, because we already spent the first four pages of this thread discussing it in detail, but even his own teammates have gone on the record to say most of what you hear about him is overblown. The only actual thing he was ever charged with was harassment or something (if I'm not mistaken) when he was still in BUF, and was basically let off on his own recognizance. Other than that, the only thing anyone has to go on are sensationalized media reports, so it's naturally always going to be the sleaziest story possible. Case in point, he ends up being absolved of the gambling accusations, but how many weeks was his name being dragged through the mud in relation to them, only to have it come out as false? I don't claim to know any more than I do, but I do know to take all info into account before I go judging anybody, especially when something doesn't add up.

 

[Anglesmith]

Well it ultimately all comes down to whether "that" is in reality what it's being made out to be, and not anything political or otherwise slimy. I know Kane's got a bad rep, but this whole thing stinks to high heaven. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if it turns out he is being hung out to dry for other reasons. Not that we'll ever know for sure, either way.

The thing is, on a normal team environment, players have each other's backs. A team going after one of their players would really ruffle feathers of his teammates if they didn't feel it was justified. I think the Sharks not letting him come to camp confirms the rumours we have heard, because if the locker room had no actual problem with him there's no way they would do this.

So, one way or another, it seems confirmed that Kane's behaviour has led to an irreparable schism in their locker room. I just don't see a realistic alternative that makes sense with reports. The simplest solution is often the correct one.

 

[Darth Vladar]

The thing is, on a normal team environment, players have each other's backs. A team going after one of their players would really ruffle feathers of his teammates if they didn't feel it was justified. I think the Sharks not letting him come to camp confirms the rumours we have heard, because if the locker room had no actual problem with him there's no way they would do this.

So, one way or another, it seems confirmed that Kane's behaviour has led to an irreparable schism in their locker room. I just don't see a realistic alternative that makes sense with reports. The simplest solution is often the correct one.

At this point, it just feels like people are trying to justify how they already feel about him. He was cleared of the gambling accusations, that's the report, and I have no reason to assume he won't be cleared of anything else he's being accused of.

 

[Anglesmith]

At this point, it just feels like people are trying to justify how they already feel about him. He was cleared of the gambling accusations, that's the report, and I have no reason to assume he won't be cleared of anything else he's being accused of.

Yeah, I don't think there are legal issues at this point. The reports I was referring to were the ones about teammates not wanting him back going back to last season. I wasn't imagining that those reports were related to gambling, but more interpersonal stuff (although I feel like there would need to be significant issues to lead to a situation like this).

Have the Sharks said what they are investigating at the moment?

 

[Mazatt]

Yeah, I don't think there are legal issues at this point. The reports I was referring to were the ones about teammates not wanting him back going back to last season. I wasn't imagining that those reports were related to gambling, but more interpersonal stuff (although I feel like there would need to be significant issues to lead to a situation like this).

Have the Sharks said what they are investigating at the moment?

They haven't announced what they are investigating, but just in terms of information released it would fall within the realm of the civil(?) lawsuit launched by his ex-wife alleging actual crimes such as sexual assault and the uhh... "escalation" of that, to put it in a nice way.

That's all conjecture of course, but I can't think of what else would be investigated.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Yeah, I don't think there are legal issues at this point. The reports I was referring to were the ones about teammates not wanting him back going back to last season. I wasn't imagining that those reports were related to gambling, but more interpersonal stuff (although I feel like there would need to be significant issues to lead to a situation like this).

Have the Sharks said what they are investigating at the moment?

If there aren't any pending legal issues, then frankly, I don't give a shit what his teammates think of him. He suited up for every single game, had a terrific season, and led the Sharks in scoring. Whatever he might've been dealing with off-ice didn't effect his game in the slightest, which is more than I can say about anyone else on the team except for maybe Hertl. These guys get paid a small fortune to play (and win) a game. Maybe if they'd paid more attention to their jobs last season they might not have been at the bottom of the league.

The only thing that interests me rn is whether Kane is going to be a free agent and if Wilson would retain salary to be rid of him.

 

[Anglesmith]

If there aren't any pending legal issues, then frankly, I don't give a shit what his teammates think of him.

You've made that clear, and as I've repeatedly said, Doug Wilson likely doesn't care whether you care.

Think of this as an HR department thing like with any other workplace. Employees can face repercussions at any workplace without necessarily breaking the law. The NHL is no different. If every other employee in an office complains about one of their coworkers, the company is likely going to see if there is a way they can get rid of the guy.

 

[Darth Vladar]

You've made that clear, and as I've repeatedly said, Doug Wilson likely doesn't care whether you care.

Think of this as an HR department thing like with any other workplace. Employees can face repercussions at any workplace without necessarily breaking the law. The NHL is no different. If every other employee in an office complains about one of their coworkers, the company is likely going to see if there is a way they can get rid of the guy.

And like any other workplace setting, people are just as prone to being petty and vindictive. We don't even what the situation is, except that he was accused of gambling, had is name unfairly dragged through the mud for weeks before finally going on the record, said he was innocent, and was cleared of any wrongdoing, only to have a new accusation laid against him. If there were indeed any issues with his "co-workers", they'd have been laid to rest long ago, as any HR department would have seen to, as opposed to allowing the summer to pass (even more time if you include the fact they didn't make the playoffs) only to have all these allegations come out in the eleventh hour, right before camp. I'm not buying any of it.

 

[Body Checker]

Skill wise Kane is actually better than Hertl. But between the ears quite a bit of a difference.

 

[Anglesmith]

And like any other workplace setting, people are just as prone to being petty and vindictive. We don't even what the situation is, except that he was accused of gambling, had is name unfairly dragged through the mud for weeks before finally going on the record, said he was innocent, and was cleared of any wrongdoing, only to have a new accusation laid against him. If there were indeed any issues with his "co-workers", they'd have been laid to rest long ago, as any HR department would have seen to, as opposed to allowing the summer to pass (even more time if you include the fact they didn't make the playoffs) only to have all these allegations come out in the eleventh hour, right before camp. I'm not buying any of it.

That seems to be the problem, though, based on the article from Kevin Kurz. Unless he is making up a story for literally no reason, Sharks players are unhappy with exactly the fact that Kane's "conduct" wasn't dealt with at all when they felt there was grounds for action.

You might not "buy it," but there really isn't a reasonable alternative here. The Sharks' actions, the lack of response from his teammates, and all of the reports from Sharks media fit the same narrative. What is it you're proposing exactly... that the Sharks are sabotaging their own team for no reason? Kane is a productive player and it makes no sense to destabilize their own locker room when they have so many immovable contracts. The odds of any of these allegations not actually stemming from a concrete reason, especially when you consider Kane's track record, are close to zero.

It is amazing to me that you are accusing others of bias for simply thinking that the most logical thing is probably true. I think you're standing in a glass house here.

 

[Darth Vladar]

That seems to be the problem, though, based on the article from Kevin Kurz. Unless he is making up a story for literally no reason, Sharks players are unhappy with exactly the fact that Kane's "conduct" wasn't dealt with at all when they felt there was grounds for action.

You might not "buy it," but there really isn't a reasonable alternative here. The Sharks' actions, the lack of response from his teammates, and all of the reports from Sharks media fit the same narrative. What is it you're proposing exactly... that the Sharks are sabotaging their own team for no reason? Kane is a productive player and it makes no sense to destabilize their own locker room when they have so many immovable contracts. The odds of any of these allegations not actually stemming from a concrete reason, especially when you consider Kane's track record, are close to zero.

It is amazing to me that you are accusing others of bias for simply thinking that the most logical thing is probably true. I think you're standing in a glass house here.

Correlation does not imply causation, and the devil shaves with Occam's Razor. All I'm saying is that he was accused of something serious and dragged through the mud for weeks about it, finally went on the record and denied the allegations, which turned out to not be true, was vindicated by the league, now it's suddenly something completely different, right before camp. I'm not trying to build a narrative like others seem wont to do, these are the only facts we have. Until we hear otherwise, Kane is not guilty of anything, so how can we know for certain what the issue in the locker room actually is? The guy was literally the best player on his team last year. How is he the only one who's job is not being affected? Karlsson had drama with Hoffman while he was still in Ottawa, who knows what goes on behind closed doors? I think Kane is just a lightning rod for hatred, any team's problems go much deeper than one player. Do I think it's probably in both the Sharks' and Kane's best interest for him to try a fresh start somewhere else? Yes, but I also don't have any reason to think he should be denied one.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Evander Kane the player would absolutely give this team the shot in the arm they need. Evander Kane the person is not worth the headache and the aggro he draws from everyone else.

Sure, add him to MattTruk and the ice surface is "_hit-disturbed totally" in our favor.
The off-ice stuff can be added to Kenney's daily speels of blah, blah, blah that no Albertans listen to anyways. The Alberta way, "who cares about that stuff".
Hopefully Hertl would gel in a Flames uni with Johnny keeping him excited about resigning here again. Who knows?

 

[GumbyCan2]

Correlation does not imply causation, and the devil shaves with Occam's Razor. All I'm saying is that he was accused of something serious and dragged through the mud for weeks about it, finally went on the record and denied the allegations, which turned out to not be true, was vindicated by the league, now it's suddenly something completely different, right before camp. I'm not trying to build a narrative like others seem wont to do, these are the only facts we have. Until we hear otherwise, Kane is not guilty of anything, so how can we know for certain what the issue in the locker room actually is? The guy was literally the best player on his team last year. How is he the only one who's job is not being affected? Karlsson had drama with Hoffman while he was still in Ottawa, who knows what goes on behind closed doors? I think Kane is just a lightning rod for hatred, any team's problems go much deeper than one player. Do I think it's probably in both the Sharks' and Kane's best interest for him to try a fresh start somewhere else? Yes, but I also don't have any reason to think he should be denied one.

Kane has been a proven by the dust settling behind as a shit-mongering, in your face my way so"F"- off, lousy teammate, person for a couple franchises now. So, to me, irregardless of guilt in legal allegations of anything untoward toward the league, do the Flames org head-trusts, players and fans want a disturbed, bullish hot-head who can be a very good hockey player, or stay far away from him?

 

[Darth Vladar]

Kane has been a proven by the dust settling behind as a shit-mongering, in your face my way so"F"- off, lousy teammate, person for a couple franchises now. So, to me, irregardless of guilt in legal allegations of anything untoward toward the league, do the Flames org head-trusts, players and fans want a disturbed, bullish hot-head who can be a very good hockey player, or stay far away from him?

Fans deserve to see the best players, and he's one of them.