Hypothetical-When Will Ottawa Turn On Paul Maclean?

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Yes and when they mistakes are we not allowed to critique them? There is a reason why he is getting paid 'bottom pairing defenseman money'

No one decided that he sucks, perhaps their opinions are formulated from watching him?

Never said that nobody is allowed to critique him, not sure where you're getting that from. Its when people focus on his mistakes, ignore those that others make and ignore the good plays Phillips makes that I question their objectivity.

 

[Tuna99]

Sorry, should have said blazing hot goalie with best save % in the league and having to stand on his head dealing with being badly outshot in most games.
Will have to check out the other coaches you mentioned to see about similar situation.

That's like saying Chicago is only good because they have Toewes or L.A. is so dominant because they have Quick.

Ottawa has Anderson and he's one of the best goalies in the league. We shouldn't hold this against maclean, every team has at least one elite player and they aren't in the playoffs. Arizona has an elite goalie and they suck, Columbus, NJ, Florida.

 

[Sens Rule]

Fact:

Only player's who really haven't played well: Karlsson. I love Karlsson and he is our best player... But compared to his ability his play has been mediocre in many games.
Ryan: great player. Injured and/or has not been too hot this season.
Michalek: he just isn't that good. Not his fault really.
The rest have been very good.
Even Wiercioch and Cowen. Somehow Maclean (though he apparently is a moron) has scratched them at just the right times because for the most part, when playing, both are decent.

This is a decent young team. And we are positioned decently well at 8th in the East.

Like seriously... 2 games of 15 we are not in a 1 goal game at least. 11 of 15 games we earn a point!?!? WTF do you all expect? This is not the 05/06 Sens with Hasek in goal and Alfie, Heatley, Spezza, Havlat, Fisher, Chara, Redden, prime Phillips and Volchenkov.
You think we are a dynastyesque team? Nope. We are a bottom payroll team playing like a playoff team.. We have a bubble roster of vets and young guys. We are doing well. I think we make the playoffs as a bottom playoff team.

To me... We should be thinking of how to do some damage in the playoffs. If Anderson is like he has been this year and he was in 12/13... We have to consider the East open and if we make it... Maybe we compete for the SC finals. We are a bubble team. We might not make it. We might though. I think BM and PM are thinking in the back of their heads... What can we do to go deep if we make it? If Anderson is a monster?

I want that as a fan. It is why we have Legwand too.

I am old. I saw a lot of middle if the road finalists. And some came very close. 82 canucks, 96 Panthers. 04 Flames and 06 Oilers 91 North stars.

You play to win. This team might be good enough to make the playoffs. Once there... Who knows.

I think Murray and Maclean are thinking of the Cup. Even if it is unlikely. And I am. And I hope the players are. No one is thinking of MacDavid and a tank.

 

[StefanW]

What a strange thread. It comes across as being completely unaware of all of the MacLean hate threads that popped up after losses last season.

 

[Hossa18]

i see you are not aware that Neil Legwand Smith is a shutdown line.
now because they are all slow off the mark and in Neil and Legwands case slow in full flight, they approach 'shutting it down' differently.
By allowing the opposition to take as many shots as they like and forcing them to skate circles around them with the puck they are clearly trying to exhaust the opposition, at times even permitting the other team to change while on the attack in order to exhaust a 2nd line.

You know what? I never looked at it that way. I will never ever again question the coach......

 

[Hossa18]

Yeah I don't get the Neil hate at all. He gets a bit annoying with his offsides antics at times but I definitely have no complaints about him this season. I love Neil.

I don't think people have any complaints with Neil being in the lineup however, I will complain about how Maclean uses him. Again, I am not crapping on Neil but, he should never be on the ice with 35 seconds left in the game with the face off in our zone, in a tie game. I would have been ok with Legwand, Smith and Stone or MacArthur instead of Neil.

 

[SaltyPete]

Chris Neil: 14th in TOI a game among forwards. 11 mins exactly. +1 with 4 pts.

Yes he is so useless and overplayed. Least minutes among forwards... A plus. Playing shutdown minutes. 55 hits in 15 games. 2nd best forward has 31. 5 minors in 15 games. Less then historically for Neil. And he has drawn at least a couple of penalties as a pest and faught.

So Neil is on our shutdown line. Has a gazillion hits more then anyone on the team. Rarely puts us shorthanded, is a plus player, plays less mins per game then any forward on the team. Is 11th among forwards with about 20 secs a game on the PP yet has a PP goal.

And Maclean is misusing him? Playing him too much? Putting him on the PP too much?

WTF? Neil is performing amazing. Maclean is using him super effectively.

Phillips is a -1 on 29 shifts a game and 23 mins a night. Mostly on the top pairing. With 8 PIMs. Yeah he sure sucks!

Basically if you criticize Neil or Phillips for this season. Or you criticize Maclean for his use of Phillips or Neil. You are a tool and your points and opinions have little use to me.

Both have been awesome. Performed spectacularly. I don't even comprehend any criticism they get. And they get a great deal.

Both have been more then adequate, they have been outstanding. But so much hate on them this season. Why? You look at their birthdate? You are unable to watch a game with any perspective? I don't understand?

Philips has been monster. Neil is playing the most responsible and less reckless game in years. Neil is not taking penalties, he is dangerous offensively at times. He is just good. And he had the least TOI on the team? WTF?

Calling Neil a shutdown guy is an absolute joke, he's probably one of the worst defensive players I have watched over the past couple years; he takes full shifts off, gets cycled around like a fool and fails to clear the puck out of the zone the majority of the times it comes to him along the boards. Even if he doesn't lose the battle along the boards he just ends up dumping it down the ice so the other team can regain possession or sending a terrible pass to one of our other players that they're going to have to fish out of their feet.

On top of that him and his line don't even get very difficult minutes, and when they do they get absolutely smoked like yesterday whenever they were played against the Sedin's.

What use is a "shutdown" player who can't even shutdown the oppositions third liners?

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

He's just saying that we are a hard crowd to please, and I agree with what he is getting at.

It would take alot for me to want to throw my team under the bus, but we seem to have a vocal minority who are never content.

I'd be happpy if there were a plan other than: "Throw shiny new rookie/prospect at the crowd to satiate them!" We were told it was a three year rebuild and now we're still rebuilding it looks like. The GM says the team is a contender and the dauphin goalie is saying they're still a rebuilding team. No timetable is set to when this team will go for the Cup. We've won ONE playoff round, ONE, over the past 8 years.

I will still go to games but I will not commit to a full season until someone, whether it's Murray or Melnyk, sets expectations of playoff success, like we had in the old days. Don't get me wrong, it's nice watching the team grow but I'm not paying NHL money to see AHL talent + Karlsson/a few vets. It's time to add some veterans and see what the eggs are shake and bakin'.

 

[bert]

i see you are not aware that Neil Legwand Smith is a shutdown line.
now because they are all slow off the mark and in Neil and Legwands case slow in full flight, they approach 'shutting it down' differently.
By allowing the opposition to take as many shots as they like and forcing them to skate circles around them with the puck they are clearly trying to exhaust the opposition, at times even permitting the other team to change while on the attack in order to exhaust a 2nd line.

hahaha well if there is only 32 seconds left in the period I am sorry but this theory is way out of wack.

 

[coladin]

If the players "aren't there yet" it means they are not developed, consistent players. Some, maybe all, of the kids will get to that level but they haven't yet and it is part of the teams performance issues.

I just find the criticism of the team a bit out of context. The problem with the team is not the players we have or the coach or even the GM. It's the players we lack due to budget and (to a much lesser extent) the decision to go with youth.

I think MacLean is a fine coach that would do even better if he had more good players in prime years. I think the players do the best they can - when some people blame lack of effort for performance, I usually chalk it up to the fact that they aren't good enough. I also think Murray does a very capable job as a GM in these circumstances.

Bottom line - when you are the bottom spending team and you are in the middle of the standings, you are outperforming a great deal. The team, coaches and management should be commended for that level of performance. Drop 2 or 3 more good players on this team and the performance of everyone - from Karlsson to Murray would look a lot better.

I truly don't think the decision to go with youth is the lesser extent. I think that is the plan that management have. They see teams getting younger, faster and Ottawa is definitely in that mix.

I think MacLean has done an outstanding job handling the Kid line, baby steps. Why, horrors of horrors he had them on in the last minute of a tie game. He is getting these players to buy in and carry out their duties and he is rewarding them.

I can't recall the last time Ottawa had three players forming a Kid line that has the ability to be anchors of this team for many years. Split on other ines yes, but all on one line?

Look at how he has handled Cowen, pretty good eh?

I am a big supporter of the coach and I don't but the budget issues. I would change anything on this team, other than shedding more salary and bringing in Pageau!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Like others have said, a coach is only as good as the players he has to work with.

We're a young team. Because of where we finish in the standings, we don't have any "elite skilled" kids coming up the pipeline...yes, we draft well, but you're not going to find a McJesus drafting 15th overall. All we can do is make sure we've got a great system in Bingo to develop the kids we do get as best as we can.

The only beef I'd have with MacLean is the shootout. Yeah, I know he's looking at history or trying to get the vets going by giving them the shootout stage, but if someone else is having a great game, I've love to see them get a shot.

The Kid Line....yes, I'd love to see them play more....but I also want to make sure they're developing the right way and don't get overwhelmed. We see too often with kind lines in places like Edmonton, Colorado, Buffalo, etc...they have some good months, or a good season, then regress badly the next year. If we can keep our kids going in an upward direction, we'll be doing well.

I think we have to wake up and realize that, not only are we not a contender this year, chances our the personnel we currently have and are developing simply won't be good enough to develop into a contender in the future, either. We have some nice potential, but it isn't championship caliber potential. If we do develop to our ceiling, we'll still need to make a good trade or two, and bring in a quality UFA and some talent to get over the hump.


One thing no one else has mentioned......if people turn on MacLean, who are you going to get to replace him? I like Torts, but the rest of the city would revolt if he came in. There's no other high profile coaches out there. We can't take Luke away from Bingo...he is too important there. Our assistant coaches are mediocre. And I doubt anyone would want another rookie coach from juniors or the minors.

 

[harvey]

remember the logic here.
A young team, as they get older will need to be paid more and our salaries will go up.
not built to win now, but 5-10 years from now, until then, learn, improve the team. when time to run for the cup, then sign the free agents that will help the team.
we are not built to win now, but to develop a cup winning team like chicago, la, pittsburg.
will it work? maybe, it has for other teams, tho some here want to win games now, rather than winning the cup in the future..
look at all pro teams and realize that there are cycles.
as per Maclean i think he is doing just fine. last year was an anomoly due to the presence of certain disruptive players

 

[Savannah Skunk]

I like the Colin Forbes reference. I would have went with Brantt Myhres.

Jody Hull

At the tail end of a sixteen year career.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The Senators are a young team with young players needing to play big roles. The coach and the organization tend to have a larger developmental role to play in this kind of situation. Unless you believe he is failing in this area, then not sure what can be expected of him.

 

[Minister of Offence]

It'll intensify if the team goes below 500

 

[BonkTastic]

It'll intensify if the team goes below 500

Considering our payroll & cap commitments, I think it's a tremendous compliment to our management that we're even anywhere CLOSE to competitive.

 

[Alex1234]

Because the management and coaching understand that the longview development of the team and specifically players like Karlsson, Cowen, Ceci, Boro, Hoffman, Lazer, Stone and others is much more important than winning right now and placating fans.

This is what Murray sold Melynk on. The process of developing a champion. Personally, I would rather have our skilled youth develop than win a playoff spot. I want this team to win a Cup, not just a playoff round.

I can see what Maclean is doing. It's not just "DURR! I LIKE VETS MORE! PLAY ALL THE VETS!"

lol
Weve won one playoff round in the last 7 years
Its pretty obvious that they understand developpement is more important than winning

 

[BonkTastic]

lol
Weve won one playoff round in the last 7 years
Its pretty obvious that they understand developpement is more important than winning

So... you agree with him?

 

[tony d]

Maybe after this year if we miss the playoffs.

 

[bert]

Considering our payroll & cap commitments, I think it's a tremendous compliment to our management that we're even anywhere CLOSE to competitive.

Teams did this with payroles half the size of other teams all the time. Just look at the sens teams until 2004....

While yes spending can help I think a couple people on this board have forgot about how all the best sens teams were built. Its through drafting and development, this is slowly coming together after Muckler ripped the cupboards bear and emptied it while drafting horribly.

I agree with some posters in here his in game decisions have been head scratching when it comes to ice time. Not total ice time.

Neil struggles at getting the puck out and staying with his D man so why is he on at the end of a close game?

Why when one line is hot do they not ride it at specific times? Or if one line is cold they should get a break. This doesn't mean it continues all season long or every game but sometimes he needs to make these adjustments.

Some of his loyalty to certain players is head scratching at times but overall he has done a good job.

 

[Alex1234]

coach said in pre oilers game this afternoon nothings wrong with bobby ryan so i guess he's not injured

 

[BonkTastic]

Teams did this with payroles half the size of other teams all the time. Just look at the sens teams until 2004.

And I think the management if those Sens teams should be praised, too.

I'm not saying that what we are doing here is unprecedented -winning games on a shoestring budget - but when it does happen, most of the time, some credit should go where it's due: management and coaching.

There's a vocal minority on this site that would be complaining if we had a 14-2 record, but still put "Neil on the ice after a goal". Whatever. Just because you repeat a point 40 times in a GDT, doesn't make it a valid one. Sick of hearing the same 4 or 5 voices use the GDTs as their own personal echo chambers. Makes the GDTs practically unreadable, IMO.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

coach said in pre oilers game this afternoon nothings wrong with bobby ryan so i guess he's not injured

Which is the right thing to say even if he was injured otherwise the opposition would zone in on him like sharks

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

coach said in pre oilers game this afternoon nothings wrong with bobby ryan so i guess he's not injured

lol, he's not going to go public and say "Bobby? oh yeah, he has a problem with X. If anyone bumps him on the ice and hits X, we'll have to pull him out for a month." He's not going to put a target on bobby and tell opponents exactly how to neutralize him.

 

[Benjamin]

coach said in pre oilers game this afternoon nothings wrong with bobby ryan so i guess he's not injured

What did he say about Ryan last season while he playing with a hernia?