Post-Game Talk: Hymanator shoots down the Jets

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

"Follow on tik tok and Instagram for more!"

Says enough for me. Let's stop giving this clown attention

True but scum like this do need to be pushed back down into the pond they crawled out of though.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I think one has to factor that Skinner IS the Oilers goalie. We're the Oilers, the most dangerous scoring team, with the most dangerous scoring talent in the league. Skinner never has to face the Oilers except in practice. So that every other NHL goalie is having a bit harder work because they do occasionally face the Oilers. Take Korpisalo, another average goalie. It was kind of funny because the telecast started out suggesting that Korp was bad against Oilers and creating a narrative the Oilers burned him alive or something. As the game progressed the observations of the telecast landed to how many 5 bell saves Korp was pulling off. Very clearly Korpi was the better of the two goalies last game and he was in playoffs too. One has to look beyond just the stats, but looking at what variety and difficulty of saves are being made, and who are the goalies stoning? Facing Drai, McD, Hyman etc is the biggest challenge in the world that any goalie faces. Hellebuck last night had to make stupendous saves to keep the game even close for his club. He's making those stops against 50 goal pedigree goal scorers.

Additionally the Oilers have players like Perry, Kane, Henrique, Nuge etc that have scored a lot of goals in this league, all on the same club.

In observation of goalies its almost never considered that the opposition goalie is facing a much bigger task because they are facing the Oilers arsenal. How do you or others think, really, that Skinner would look playing against the Oilers top guns?

The Oilers, and even more their PP are a nightmare consideration for opponent goalies.

Skinner is average. The Oilers defensive structure, most nights, is below average.

The above combined with the Oilers offensive bang is a good enough recipe for the regular season but it won't be in the playoffs.

 

[guymez]

Interesting to note how much better the PK was.
Does Ryan make that much of a difference?

 

[Fourier]

I think injury likely factors into it. He got hurt in November with what looks like a groin injury and is out again recently with what looks to be a recurring issue. One can imagine a groin injury for a goaltender would be a significant issue with the lateral and up and down movement required and recovery not a simple process as well.

Regardless, Vegas pro scouting nailed the pick-up for a marginal lottery ticket, and uncovered a starting goaltender. It's what pro scouting can and should do which has been an area of poor results in Edmonton. The bigger picture in Vegas is it showed there is a way to win with volatility in goaltending (without a single game played last year by their expensive #1 goaltender) through a disciplined team defending system and fortress big, good and deep defense corp that make it difficult for opposition in high danger scoring areas.

Some pretty significant contributory factors around Hill's stumbles with his likely recurring injury and several good two way players in front of him. Still pro scouting can make a big difference finding cheap acquisition players like Hill and Chandler Stephenson.

It may well turn out that Vegas' pro scouts were wise in identifying Hill. But it needs to also be note that Vegas had 5 goalies play for them last year and Hill was definitely not the anointed #1. In fact, had Brossoit not gotten hurt it is actually quite likely that the Oilers win that series and Hill would never have had a chance to shine. Sometimes I am not so sure that Vegas' pro scouts are all that smart or is just a matter that Vegas throws so much spaghetti at the wall that some sticks even if only for a while. Hill's history as a starter is actually pretty comparable with Skinners.

As to injuries, this has been a pattern for Hill. He missed 39 games with a LBI in 2021-22, 18 games with a LBI in 2022-23 (20 games out in total) and another 22 this year. Injury prone is not always a thing but when a player has repeated injuries of a particular type it is concerning.

 

[EchoesoftheEighties]

Connor Brown about to go off in the playoffs

 

[Broberg Speed]

Interesting to note how much better the PK was.
Does Ryan make that much of a difference?

I remember Ryan attempting a hit on Scheifele in the 2nd and bouncing off of him like a tennis ball.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think one has to factor that Skinner IS the Oilers goalie. We're the Oilers, the most dangerous scoring team, with the most dangerous scoring talent in the league. Skinner never has to face the Oilers except in practice. So that every other NHL goalie is having a bit harder work because they do occasionally face the Oilers. Take Korpisalo, another average goalie. It was kind of funny because the telecast started out suggesting that Korp was bad against Oilers and creating a narrative the Oilers burned him alive or something. As the game progressed the observations of the telecast landed to how many 5 bell saves Korp was pulling off. Very clearly Korpi was the better of the two goalies last game and he was in playoffs too. One has to look beyond just the stats, but looking at what variety and difficulty of saves are being made, and who are the goalies stoning? Facing Drai, McD, Hyman etc is the biggest challenge in the world that any goalie faces. Hellebuck last night had to make stupendous saves to keep the game even close for his club. He's making those stops against 50 goal pedigree goal scorers.

Additionally the Oilers have players like Perry, Kane, Henrique, Nuge etc that have scored a lot of goals in this league, all on the same club.

In observation of goalies its almost never considered that the opposition goalie is facing a much bigger task because they are facing the Oilers arsenal. How do you or others think, really, that Skinner would look playing against the Oilers top guns?

The Oilers, and even more their PP are a nightmare consideration for opponent goalies.

Conversely, the Oilers goaltenders play behind a largely average defense corp and a team defending deployment that is prone to breakdown as a systemic issue that places the Oilers among the league leaders in firing head coaches. The Oil are among the leagues best in offensive zone time yet we see repeating behaviour of odd man rushes against with d-men caught up ice; failed basic defending support and poor decision making in front of their goaltenders.

This organization asked for league average goaltending when it went out and spent big on the position they felt was the last remaining big piece to be a Stanley Cup level team. Campbell withered under this pressure and the erratic team play in front of him. Though I still think he's back game 1 of the playoffs as the team's back-up tender. The Oilers are in this situation because Plan A where they put all their eggs couldn't cut and necessity after another coach firing put the team's faith in the young player who was supposed to be apprenticing during the winning window.

It's often not the shot quality of what the Oilers give up but rather the quality of chances. Skinner is an imperfect developing goaltender working to backstop a team expecting to compete and win a Cup yet is still not able to master the goal suppression commitment that defines true contenders. He delivers largely NHL average or better work but as a team its defending still varies quite wildly. As goes their defending work, the goaltending seems to follow. It's a team issue both personnel and deployment

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Goalies

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics for goalies including shot and save location, goal support and games above .900 save percentage.

edge.nhl.com

 

[Drivesaitl]

Skinner is average. The Oilers defensive structure, most nights, is below average.

With the Oilers offensive bang this is a good enough recipe for the regular season but it won't be in the playoffs.

The Oilers defensive structure whether it be average or not is offset by the Oilers being elite in transition, elite in puck possession, and in their ability to own play for large segments of games. For instance last night the Jets would have needed a second puck on ice to even play with in 2nd and third periods. For the most part the Oilers dominated. The Oilers took the game over towards end of first period. Could already see it had swung.

I do note that teams are mroe desperate to create something against us when they do get the chances because for most clubs playing us the chances are infrequent. Oilers are topten in least GA. Despite having ordinary goaltending.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I mean a lot of pro hockey players come from privileged backgrounds since hockey in general is an extremely expensive sport to play.

But I think we all know really why Andrew is focusing on Hyman specifically. I wonder what that could be?

Hmmm let’s check his tweets:

View attachment 842255

….and there you have it. Was pretty obvious to me that this “journalist” has a hidden agenda.

 

[Broberg Speed]

The Oilers defensive structure whether it be average or not is offset by the Oilers being elite in transition, elite in puck possession, and in their ability to own play for large segments of games. For instance last night the Jets would have needed a second puck on ice to even play with in 2nd and third periods. For the most part the Oilers dominated. The Oilers took the game over towards end of first period. Could already see it had swung.

I do note that teams are mroe desperate to create something against us when they do get the chances because for most clubs playing us the chances are infrequent. Oilers are topten in least GA. Despite having ordinary goaltending.

If the Oilers had better defensive structure and were capable of funneling the shot attempts Skinner would look fantastic. The team in front of him cannot accomplish this.

 

[alanschu]

I mean tell me where I’m wrong.

You're not. Elon straight up shares Great Replacement theory nonsense and is very concerned about less white babies etc. Not

I mean, it's always important to wonder why these major media outlets, overwhelmingly owned by rich capitalists that bend over backwards to hire conservative voices, are somehow peddling "lefty propaganda" such as.... an MSNBC host stating that Bernie Sanders winning a state primary is the same as Hitler taking Paris.

 

[alanschu]

Mom fought many battles in her life. She beat cancer twice and was beating it a third time before a case of pnuemonia, or something in her lungs, snatched her away. It's unfortunately very cruel.

My Mom passed away last year due to complications with COPD so I get it. Definitely was a challenging past few years with Covid and the fire smoke issues. Even though I wasn't "surprised" it was still a shock and as I go through the "year of firsts" (First birthday without her was just last week) I definitely have my ups and downs. I learned about the year of firsts when I lost my brother back in 1994. Definitely a challenge.

Things like hockey don't really matter much in life but it is a nice distraction and seeing them win last night did make the night a little brighter.

I agree, and the past few years culminating especially with little Ben's enthusiasm with the team, hockey for me is something to be enjoyed win or lose. I feel for the guys when they lose, and am happy for them when they are doing well and winning. Helpful perspective checks like this can be good for us!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Conversely, the Oilers goaltenders play behind a largely average defense corp and a team defending deployment that is prone to breakdown as a systemic issue that places the Oilers among the league leaders in firing head coaches. The Oil are among the leagues best in offensive zone time yet we see repeating behaviour of odd man rushes against with d-men caught up ice; failed basic defending support and poor decision making in front of their goaltenders.

This organization asked for league average goaltending when it went out and spent big on the position they felt was the last remaining big piece to be a Stanley Cup level team. Campbell withered under this pressure and the erratic team play in front of him. Though I still think he's back game 1 of the playoffs as the team's back-up tender. The Oilers are in this situation because Plan A where they put all their eggs couldn't cut and necessity after another coach firing put the team's faith in the young player who was supposed to be apprenticing during the winning window.

It's often not the shot quality of what the Oilers give up but rather the quality of chances. Skinner is an imperfect developing goaltender working to backstop a team expecting to compete and win a Cup yet is still not able to master the goal suppression commitment that defines true contenders. He delivers largely NHL average or better work but as a team its defending still varies quite wildly. As goes their defending work, the goaltending seems to follow. It's a team issue both personnel and deployment

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics - Goalies

NHL EDGE Puck and Player Tracking Statistics for goalies including shot and save location, goal support and games above .900 save percentage.

edge.nhl.com

I think that is inaccurate on the whole. The Oilers right now are one of the best teams in the league at cleaning up around the net and sorting out rebounds and limiting 2nd chances. To add what i just stated the Oilers are elite at puck outs (despite a non puck playing goalie which makes this task harder) are elite at offensive zone entries, elite at having puck, elite at having long stretches of games where opponents are not getting much of a sniff.

I would say in general that the play of the Oilers is conducive to low GA. One has to take the sum of the skillsets and play of the team in consideration of that. The Oilers to me are a team that defend best by not having puck in own zone. But who are not bad when they don't have it either. The defense corp itself could be described as average but the overall contribution of forwards and team play is better than most teams. Combine that with our elite puck possession metrics and GA suppression is had. Fairly regardless of who is in net.

You could throw any of the goalies New Jersey for instance has and we probably win a cup. OIlers bet wrong on Jack Campbell but he wasn't afforded ample chance to rebound either. What we got with Skinner is a goalie that is sometimes making the stops and other times is giving up goals against the grain of play, Like last night.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

….and there you have it. Was pretty obvious to me that this “journalist” has a hidden agenda.

I mean calling him a journalist is pretty disingenuous.

He’s as much of a journalist as Zach Laing or Mark Spector (tee hee, just kidding, kind of)

 

[Drivesaitl]

If the Oilers had better defensive structure and were capable of funneling the shot attempts Skinner would look fantastic. The team in front of him cannot accomplish this.

AT the highest level of hockey all teams can make plays. Occasionally its just an opponent making a good play. You don't stop those from occurring, you mitigate the amount of times they occur.

If the Oilers didn't have defensive structure the play would resemble Eakins hockey. Under KK and Coffey the structure overall has been fine.

Not sure what you mean about funneling shot attempts. Jets got two goals from the point. From peripheral spots.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

It may well turn out that Vegas' pro scouts were wise in identifying Hill. But it needs to also be note that Vegas had 5 goalies play for them last year and Hill was definitely not the anointed #1. In fact, had Brossoit not gotten hurt it is actually quite likely that the Oilers win that series and Hill would never have had a chance to shine. Sometimes I am not so sure that Vegas' pro scouts are all that smart or is just a matter that Vegas throws so much spaghetti at the wall that some sticks even if only for a while. Hill's history as a starter is actually pretty comparable with Skinners.

As to injuries, this has been a pattern for Hill. He missed 39 games with a LBI in 2021-22, 18 games with a LBI in 2022-23 (20 games out in total) and another 22 this year. Injury prone is not always a thing but when a player has repeated injuries of a particular type it is concerning.

I've always noted Vegas succeeded last season in reducing their goals against by 19 from year previous with rotating goaltenders and zero games played by their #1. It's a blueprint to succeed with elite coaching, system play, and a big, high quality blue line. Vegas were very fortunate in how their Cup run played out but did so because of their adherence to system play and quality of their personnel (blue line).

Well documented their goaltending guru Sean Burke had known history with Hill going back to junior and worked with him shortly in Arizona. That's a pretty solid qualifying reference. Pretty sure they couldn't predict the future but the coaching, system, personnel was strong enough to overcome goaltending injuries all year and did same when it mattered most. Fortunate absolutely. But Hill did the job and continued strong play this season until a recurring injury. I added the organization's steal of Stephenson to reinforce pro scouting as an organizational strength that like Hill has turned marginal draft picks into quality supporting NHL players of an elite Cup contending team. Will definitely admit my bias (and disdain) for McCrimmon, Kisio, Karpen and their largely Western Canadian management group who I watched pilfer junior teams for years with smart trades and shrewd ability to assess talent.

The Hill v Skinner comparison is irrelevant. I agree. Hill has had the benefit of a more mature, disciplined team in front of him and made the most of his opportunity when 'rescued' from mediocre pro organization and a career that he was drifting with apparently less than his full effort.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I mean calling him a journalist is pretty disingenuous.

He’s as much of a journalist as Zach Laing or Mark Spector (tee hee, just kidding, kind of)

He called himself a journalist. I call him a piece of shit.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

He called himself a journalist. I call him a piece of shit.

Then he is being disingenuous!

Also if you guys want a laugh:

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think that is inaccurate on the whole. The Oilers right now are one of the best teams in the league at cleaning up around the net and sorting out rebounds and limiting 2nd chances. To add what i just stated the Oilers are elite at puck outs (despite a non puck playing goalie which makes this task harder) are elite at offensive zone entries, elite at having puck, elite at having long stretches of games where opponents are not getting much of a sniff.

I would say in general that the play of the Oilers is conducive to low GA. One has to take the sum of the skillsets and play of the team in consideration of that. The Oilers to me are a team that defend best by not having puck in own zone. But who are not bad when they don't have it either. The defense corp itself could be described as average but the overall contribution of forwards and team play is better than most teams. Combine that with our elite puck possession metrics and GA suppression is had. Fairly regardless of who is in net.

You could throw any of the goalies New Jersey for instance has and we probably win a cup. OIlers bet wrong on Jack Campbell but he wasn't afforded ample chance to rebound either. What we got with Skinner is a goalie that is sometimes making the stops and other times is giving up goals against the grain of play, Like last night.

We're watching two different teams. This Oilers seasons has had three parts, phase 1 was abject failure that got Woodcroft fired due to abysmal team defending; phase 2 team responds with renewed commitment to team defending and their actual goals start to rise to align with their expected goal statistics; and phase 3 post all star game we have started to see the wobbles return to their team defending game. Coaching has moved around its D-pairing groups trying to solidify their work. Nurse hasn't been consistent; Desharnais has shown some wobbles; Ceci has been inconsistent; as great as Bouchard has been offensively he still gets caught with learning movements defending. The forward support hasn't been as crisp and commitment to help when the Oilers aggressive d activation fails and leads to odd man transitional rush attacks the other way. Penalty kill has been sinking.

When dialed in we see how good the Oilers can be with their two-way commitment. Course that goes back to McLellan, Tippett, phases with Woodcroft, and Knoblauch. Since All Star breaks we're seeing more of the systemic issues that plague this team coach to coach to coach to coach.

 

[Broberg Speed]

AT the highest level of hockey all teams can make plays. Occasionally its just an opponent making a good play. You don't stop those from occurring, you mitigate the amount of times they occur.

If the Oilers didn't have defensive structure the play would resemble Eakins hockey. Under KK and Coffey the structure overall has been fine.

Not sure what you mean about funneling shot attempts. Jets got two goals from the point. From peripheral spots.

Oilers defensive structure is bottom ten in the league. The teams with good goaltending are the teams capable of funneling the shot attempts.

Even if a team has 50 shots on net they aren't going to get anything past the goaltender if the shots are taken from predictable areas on the ice at predictable times. Game time shots shouldn't differ from the shots the goaltender faces in practice. If the team can accomplish this the team likely has a great goaltender.

The Oilers being such a poor positional team in the defensive zone combined with soft defensive play and poor defensive coverage, different from positional play, from players playing significant roles on the team means the Oilers won't beat any elite team in the playoffs.

For the playoffs, I want Campbell available as an option. He's athletic and the only goaltender in the Oilers system that can negate the teams flaws.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We're watching two different teams. This Oilers seasons has had three parts, phase 1 was abject failure that got Woodcroft fired due to abysmal team defending; phase 2 team responds with renewed commitment to team defending and their actual goals start to rise to align with their expected goal statistics; and phase 3 post all star game we have started to see the wobbles return to their team defending game. Coaching has moved around its D-pairing groups trying to solidify their work. Nurse hasn't been consistent; Desharnais has shown some wobbles; Ceci has been inconsistent; as great as Bouchard has been offensively he still gets caught with learning movements defending. The forward support hasn't been as crisp and commitment to help when the Oilers aggressive d activation fails and leads to odd man transitional rush attacks the other way. Penalty kill has been sinking.

When dialed in we see how good the Oilers can be with their two-way commitment. Course that goes back to McLellan, Tippett, phases with Woodcroft, and Knoblauch. Since All Star breaks we're seeing more of the systemic issues that plague this team coach to coach to coach to coach.

The Oilers outscore their opponents, outchance their opponents, and win the vast majority of games. Some "plague"

Take a look as instance in the protection Skinner was getting when he coughed the puck up behind his own goal. Immediately 3 Oilers were on sight around net mopping up the Oil spill. The Oilers are doing this very well, and not in isolation.

By and large Oilers defending is sufficient. Every opponent of merit will generate some chances, some open looks, and its the nature of hockey and only 5 or less skaters on ice to do that.

pk is a current struggle that needs to get rectified.

What hasn't been mentioned is that no defensive system stops all forays. Defensive structures systems are essentially tooks to stymie opponent chances. To use specific tactics to limit and confound opponents. As such defensive structures only work to their best advantage until they don't, until offenses discover look arounds, discover ways to exploit the defensive system.

In so much of the discussion of defensive systems its not make apparent that any defensive structure is a cat and mouse game. Its more complex paper scizzors. Any defensive system gets unmasked. Gets scouted. springs leaks. At the end of that and when teams are able to do that you need the stops.

Anyway we're not going to cure any Oilers alleged ills here. heh

 

[OfCorsiDid]

You're not. Elon straight up shares Great Replacement theory nonsense and is very concerned about less white babies etc. Not

I mean, it's always important to wonder why these major media outlets, overwhelmingly owned by rich capitalists that bend over backwards to hire conservative voices, are somehow peddling "lefty propaganda" such as.... an MSNBC host stating that Bernie Sanders winning a state primary is the same as Hitler taking Paris.

uh ok. Way to pick the one sentence out of an entire paragraph.

I personally don’t really care what Elon thinks or posts. If he wants to make a fool of himself online that’s his prerogative.

The root of my concern is that he’s taking a highly public forum and manipulating the discourse on the under the guise of free speech. ToS rules are applied haphazardly and sometimes along political lines. Posts promoted by the platform’s algorithms sometimes lie in the alt-right despite user preference while the opposite perspective is silenced. These are my concerns.

As for MSM? I don’t consume it in a typical way. Usually I only attempt to glean the facts by weeding through the bs analysis you described. I often consume sources that are both left and right to screen for bias. Plus MSM is so blatantly attempting to garner clicks and attention through sound bites rather than reporting the facts, so watching is a massive waste of time.

 

[brentashton]

Just sharing a thought as I reflect on last night’s “passionate” GDT and today’s banter on many Oiler and non Oiler related topics (but then again when they are being shared on HFOil,aren’t they all Oiler related?).

This community is remarkable in how many knowledgeable and caring folks choose to spend their time here, coming together because of a shared desire to see their favourite team succeed. Even with the, at times, vitriol, badgering, heated discussions, a balance can be found from members offering encouragement, understanding, respect amongst other contributions.

Any ways, to everyone who is passionate, is opinionated, open to sharing your knowledge and experiences as well as being understanding and compassionate when the situation presents itself, thank you.

 

[Stoneman89]

View attachment 842064

Skinner may have had a sub .900 sv% but posting this anyway because it invariably will make someone mad.

"Don't tease crazy people."

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Just sharing a thought as I reflect on last night’s “passionate” GDT and today’s banter on many Oiler and non Oiler related topics (but then again when they are being shared on HFOil,aren’t they all Oiler related?).

This community is remarkable in how many knowledgeable and caring folks choose to spend their time here, coming together because of a shared desire to see their favourite team succeed. Even with the, at times, vitriol, badgering, heated discussions, a balance can be found from members offering encouragement, understanding, respect amongst other contributions.

Any ways, to everyone who is passionate, is opinionated, open to sharing your knowledge and experiences as well as being understanding and compassionate when the situation presents itself, thank you.

I wish I could like this more than once.