Post-Game Talk: Hymanator shoots down the Jets

[Fourier]

Having multiple goalies in the bullpen in the first place and being able to employ that is next level in the first place. Its an ode to the nature of the position, and acknowledgement of same that goalies can run hot and cold, that its an unknown quantity, and that having more is better just as it is for an MLB team to have a competent stable of pitchers and closers.

I'm not saying either that Vegas are next level generally in goalie assessment as they recruited Lehner who was a far worse gamble than Jack Campbell but that Vegas are next level because they keep as many balls in play as possible, cheating or otherwise and its not errant for an org business or otherwise to find and seek competitive advantage.

Lastly is pure conjecture that Vegas would not have gone with Adin Hill eventually. Their course of action tends to show they will go with other goalies and try other goalies. Their course of action as well in acquiring Quick pretty much spelled out that they still had doubts and wanted as many balls in play as possible.

Overall Vegas have been astute on the goalie file. The Oilers going and maintaining status quo on the same file arguably is not.


You didn't like it once you cheap bastid!


jk

edit, oh wait, you did, board took awhile to load the like. haha. carry on.

I have acknowledged that Vegas' aggressive approach paid off for them. But they have also made mistakes in that regard. Morever they had gone with the goalie by committee route in the year previous to their cup run and missed the playoffs. So one year the strategy failed and the next year it paid off big. In my mind how this plays out long term is still to be determined.

As far as eventually going with Hill, they simply may not have had a chance if Brossoit had not been hurt. They won in 6 over the Oilers. Had Brossoit played even one more game it is very possible that they lose that series. They won the game he got hurt in so he was likely the starter for the next game as well. And if Thompson was healthy he would have been their guy.

 

[guymez]

I have acknowledged that Vegas' aggressive approach paid off for them. But they have also made mistakes in that regard. Morever they had gone with the goalie by committee route in the year previous to their cup run and missed the playoffs. So one year the strategy failed and the next year it paid off big. In my mind how this plays out long term is still to be determined.

As far as eventually going with Hill, they simply may not have had a chance if Brossoit had not been hurt. They won in 6 over the Oilers. Had Brossoit played even one more game it is very possible that they lose that series. They won the game he got hurt in so he was likely the starter for the next game as well. And if Thompson was healthy he would have been their guy.

I think that the coaching change was a paradigm shift in terms of playoffs success.
Cassidy arrinve in June 2022 and the team embraced his D system which IMO allowed then to rotate through goalies and still maintain success.
IMO thats a very strong defensive system allows for an average or slightly above average goalie to provide a Championship calibre level of play. Assuming of course that the offence is enough to keep the team competitive.

 

[Morpheus]

Tom Gazzola stated today on The Oil Stream podcast that the 1996 copper jerseys have two options:

A white Smyth or a blue Laraque option.

The team will not be wearing them for games and apparently oilers management is not a fan of the copper and blue scheme.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There is no question that Vegas has had success since coming into the League and they did win it all so you have to give them credit for that accomplishment. But what I find harder to accept is that there success is all about being smarter than everyone else and always making the right move. frankly I think their success has been a combination of many factors including a very favorable set of rules from and after expansion, being a highly desirable place to place and to their credit a very aggressive management team that has both hits and misses.

Looking at your bolded statement the first thing I would note is that after decreasing their GA by 19 they are now back to virtually the same GA rate as they were the in 2021-22. So if the reason for their success was truly elite coaching, system play and a big high quality blueline one would expect that they should be leading the division rather than having recently been at risk of missing the playoffs again. The coaches and system are the same this year as they were last year. So is the defense. And yes I know that they have had injuries.

I actually question how well they played defensively even in the last playoff year. I did not see an elite team at all. No doubt Hill stood on his head but in reality would they have beaten the Oilers if Brossoit had been the goalie. It's not like they dominated the series. The Oilers for example drove AP crazy. Their teams in 2019-20 and 2020-21 were definitely better defensively. Their SA/gm, GA/gm and pk% were definitely not at the same level as those years where they played a very tight game.

I still say that Vegas won last year because of goaltending and because they converted a very high number of their opportunities.

I hate Vegas close to Flames level. But I do respect alot of what they've done and achieved. Hate a lot of how they conduct business too.

However they've had an experienced playoff team since inception only to miss the playoffs a couple years back with a lot of injuries. Grabbed an elite coach immediately after being fired in Boston and reset their team systems which improved critical goals against results despite running through five goaltenders, none their #1. They broke through with what GM Ken Holland keeps repeating, that is to be in a place organization wise to have multiple at bats for a break through Cup run. The universe did last year for Vegas. Now that said, why the Oilers should be disappointed is the series was a coin flip. But Vegas was a little better in key areas including EV scoring, discipline, and limiting mistakes, and of course got the largely unpredictable hot goalie run that underscores many Cup runs. I post this video often because it reinforces the cumulative fine line areas that undid the Oilers in that series, EV scoring, outcoachings notable Oil Line 2 getting dominated, poorer discipline and bad mistakes:

I don't follow Vegas closely but my sense is following their start this season (no Cup hangover) the random reality of injury has been a big factor in their regression. Front of line would be a starting goalie with a long-term recuring injury, key players like Theodore for longer-term, Stone and others. Miracle year last riding through their goalie injury issues doesn't default to clean sheets of a new season. Lots of random in hockey's chaotic reality.

 

[brentashton]

I feel so trendy and ahead of my time. lol

Place in MWTC used to sell discontinued Jerseys for 60bucks. Brand New. Usually of discontinued players. So I bought the Smyth jersey. I almost bought the Raffi Torres one too but figured that would be too controversial. haha.

I don't buy this sort of stuff at regular price. I bought the wife a Taylor Hall jersey, same place, same price, or maybe it was 75 bucks. She doesn't know as much about Oilers current events and was over the moon. She liked Taylor Hall a lot....then she wondered why he wasn't an Oiler anymore. "because of f***ing Chiarelli and Adam Larsson" <seeth> hehe

We were wandering around one day a month later and she sees the Taylor Hall jerseys still on sale and says "hey, wait a minute"

Then I had to buy a box of chocolates and flowers fast...

Then I told her to be happy, it could've been the Nail Yakupov jersey..

I said it like Rodney Dangerfield would

true story

Nothing would say “this relationship is on shaky ground” like giving your gal a Nail Yakupov jersey. Might as well buy her a Flames jersey.

 

[alanschu]

Nothing would say “this relationship is on shaky ground” like giving your gal a Nail Yakupov jersey. Might as well buy her a Flames jersey.

My Dad recently entered the dating scene after being married to my Mom for 50 years. Turns out his new GF is a Maple Leafs fan and internally I was "oh noooooo" (though happy for him, she seems sweet and he has said it's nice to wake up and not feel lonely).

He is far too new of a fan to hockey for me to playfully smack talk, but it sounds like the two of them do at least watch Oilers games as well. I shared a score and he was "Yeah they sure took it to them in the third period." I'll allow it he is 72.

Flames Jersey though would have been more challenging

 

[Fourier]

I think that the coaching change was a paradigm shift in terms of playoffs success.
Cassidy arrinve in June 2022 and the team embraced his D system which IMO allowed then to rotate through goalies and still maintain success.
IMO thats a very strong defensive system allows for an average or slightly above average goalie to provide a Championship calibre level of play. Assuming of course that the offence is enough to keep the team competitive.

That's the narrative and of course their success lays evidence to it. But they have teh same coach and system this year and yet their results are closer to their year missing the playoffs than to their Stanley cup winning years.

Just to clarify, is this an advanced stat acronym, or Alex Pietrangelo?

(I definitely am not aware of a lot of the acronyms and given you often have insightful posts with more advanced stats, I put this at 50/50 for you haha )

Alex Pietrangelo. The Oilers pounded him, frustrated him and exposed him.

 

[guymez]

That's the narrative and of course their success lays evidence to it. But they have teh same coach and system this year and yet their results are closer to their year missing the playoffs than to their Stanley cup winning years.

Fair take but I think their step back this season might have more to do with fatigue. Repeating as SC champs is such a grind and that task becomes even more daunting for a team is a little older.
The bulk of the players that drive results for Vegas are older players.
Injuries (and perhaps fatigue in general) appear to be catching up to them.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Tom Gazzola stated today on The Oil Stream podcast that the 1996 copper jerseys have two options:

A white Smyth or a blue Laraque option.

The team will not be wearing them for games and apparently oilers management is not a fan of the copper and blue scheme.

I'm okay with this. I liked the copper and blue at the time, but this team is blue and orange. I hope they ditch those nasty navy blue and orange jerseys soon though. Those are the greasy poops, and the longer we have them, the more I dislike them.

 

[Fourier]

Fair take but I think their step back this season might have more to do with fatigue. Repeating as SC champs is such a grind and that task becomes even more daunting for a team is a little older.
The bulk of the players that drive results for Vegas are older players.
Injuries (and perhaps fatigue in general) appear to be catching up to them.

Its possible. I am not saving their win last year was a mirage. But until they come close to repeating I think it is up in the air. As I said, at least statistically last year's team was not even close to their best playoff team in terms of goals against, pk% and shots against. They gave up a lot of chances and got bailed out by Hill. But they also finished a high percentage of their own chances. It was their GF/gm that was the major outlier for them in comparison with previous years. They gave up 13 more goals last year over 20 games than they did in the 20 games they played in 2020. They scored more than a goal per game more than they did in their other two long playoff runs. An at the same time they had the lowest shots per game of any of their playoff seasons.

If I compare the 2021-22 Avs and the 2022-23 Knights for me their is no question I take that Avs team every day and every night. (no pun intended.)

 

[alanschu]

Alex Pietrangelo. The Oilers pounded him, frustrated him and exposed him.

Figured. My first read was "Attacking Possession" given I know your penchant of analyzing some of the finer details of the game (complimentary!).

As for Alex, yes we did cause him to start lumberjacking.

 

[Fourier]

Figured. My first read was "Attacking Possession" given I know your penchant of analyzing some of the finer details of the game (complimentary!).

As for Alex, yes we did cause him to start lumberjacking.

I'll add a little stats if you don't mind. Looking at AP's 5 vs 5 results vs the Oilers with and away from the Eichel's line is quite enlightening:

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Note that in terms of GF and against in 56 minutes 5 vs 5 Vegas had 2GF and 1GA while he was on. But they did this while scoring chances were 17 for and 44 against and high danger Corsi was 8 for and 18 against. The Knights on ice sv% in this situation was .970. And this was with a strong Ozone push! That's a pretty decent indication that the goalie was bailing out the team in that situation.

 

[Faelko]

“We have the best referees in the world.” -Gary Bettman

 

[alanschu]

I'll add a little stats if you don't mind. Looking at AP's 5 vs 5 results vs the Oilers with and away from the Eichel's line is quite enlightening:

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Note that in terms of GF and against in 56 minutes 5 vs 5 Vegas had 2GF and 1GA while he was on. But they did this while scoring chances were 17 for and 44 against and high danger Corsi was 8 for and 18 against. The Knights on ice sv% in this situation was .970. And this was with a strong Ozone push! That's a pretty decent indication that the goalie was bailing out the team in that situation.

Wow that's even with a pretty even (slight tilt to offensive) distribution of things like faceoffs.

Wild that they still technically outscored.

 

[Stoneman89]

My Dad recently entered the dating scene after being married to my Mom for 50 years. Turns out his new GF is a Maple Leafs fan and internally I was "oh noooooo" (though happy for him, she seems sweet and he has said it's nice to wake up and not feel lonely).

He is far too new of a fan to hockey for me to playfully smack talk, but it sounds like the two of them do at least watch Oilers games as well. I shared a score and he was "Yeah they sure took it to them in the third period." I'll allow it he is 72.

Flames Jersey though would have been more challenging

Perhaps you can help to "indoctrinate" her over to the dark side (our side).

 

[Oilhawks]

My favourite jersey.


Held back by the Leafs for many years.

Looks like it is a Mitchell & Ness release for Smyth and Laroque, but maybe it opens the door for it being the new third next year.

 

[Lacaar]

I think the other thing with match ups these days is that teams are so streaky, in both directions. Depends on what cycle both teams are on.

Yah I'm finding it really hard to get a gauge on the Oilers this year.

I think I set my expectations a bit too high after last year. They were one of the cup contenders last year. They looked it. They played like it.

This year they're in reality a middling cup contender with a 9th overall record. Caught by other teams they were ahead of last year. lack of growth and some under performing acquisitions.

I'll hold out hope when the playoffs start and the Oilers reveal they've been playing possum the whole year!

But as it stands right now by my guess. They're 50/50 to beat any team in the playoffs that's not the 7th or 8th seed in the east. I think they can take Philly or Washington/Detroit

Can kind of say that about the rest as well perhaps. Just a dogfight year.

 

[joestevens29]

“We have the best referees in the world.” -Gary Bettman

Apparently the MLS is going through it right now.

NFL went through it as well not that long ago.

It could always be worse.

 

[Stoneman89]

Yah I'm finding it really hard to get a gauge on the Oilers this year.

I think I set my expectations a bit too high after last year. They were one of the cup contenders last year. They looked it. They played like it.

This year they're in reality a middling cup contender with a 9th overall record. Caught by other teams they were ahead of last year. lack of growth and some under performing acquisitions.

I'll hold out hope when the playoffs start and the Oilers reveal they've been playing possum the whole year!

But as it stands right now by my guess. They're 50/50 to beat any team in the playoffs that's not the 7th or 8th seed in the east. I think they can take Philly or Washington/Detroit

Can kind of say that about the rest as well perhaps. Just a dogfight year.

And that is what makes last year hurt even more. Was a wide open scenario with Colorado and Boston getting knocked out early, and ll we had to do was go through the door that was waiting for us. This year, there are too many loaded up teams to think that, so the road will be really tough this year.

 

[alanschu]

Perhaps you can help to "indoctrinate" her over to the dark side (our side).

That might be challenging. She has a jersey and everything (Matthews lol).
Her kiddo is an Oilers fan though

 

[brentashton]

That might be challenging. She has a jersey and everything (Matthews lol).
Her kiddo is an Oilers fan though

Your dad is 72 and his new gf still calls her son, kiddo?

I’m impressed, your dad is a playuh…

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Pretty sure I agree with you. Elon is letting far right elements flourish on the Site Formerly Known as Twitter.

"You're not" was "You're not wrong" lol and then while replying to your post I was addressing other sillyness stated by others in this thread. So I do apologize if you thought it was an inference you were making.

(Mostly because I went block happy with others at this point)

Ahhhhhhhhh ok lol. I was 50\50 if you were criticizing or agreeing. I decided to play the odds, my bad.

 

[alanschu]

Ahhhhhhhhh ok lol. I was 50\50 if you were criticizing or agreeing. I decided to play the odds, my bad.

As a veteran of the internet, I get it lol

 

[9GWG9]

Nurse on that tying goal. Ppffff!

What’s the score if the goalies are switched.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nothing would say “this relationship is on shaky ground” like giving your gal a Nail Yakupov jersey. Might as well buy her a Flames jersey.

My wife had a healthy infatuation with Taylor Hall. It got distracting when she wore Jersey to bed...


ok this time I am joking. About the bed wear, not the infatuation. lol

Its cool though I get to watch artists like this with no grief.