Hyman vs Gallagher vs Pageau.

[Buck Naked]

I didn't mean to imply he caught up in 5v5 numbers. I just meant is overall goals and points, and impact on the game. Sure, 5v5 is important, but you can't just ignore all other aspects of the game. He is better on the PP, and PKs which Gallagher doesn't even do.

And yes, he played with Matthews last year mostly however remember he came off of a huge injury and missed the start of the season. He's also the first player to get bounced around from line to line as can be seen this year, since everyone who watches the leafs knows he is the catalyst most of the time.

And sure, this is a 20 game sample size this season, but seriously, anyone who watches the leafs and him consistently will see how this guy has improved over the years. I have zero doubts that he will continue to put up a very similar production for the remainder of the season. I don't care if people pick Gallagher, or Pageau really. They all seem like similar type players to me. I just don't think anyone who is saying AINEC for any of the three is even trying to be unbiased.

So you're literally saying that Hyman is better because he PKs? Because everything else points to Gallagher. How do you factor in the huge difference in possession? I mean, Gallagher is a top player in the entire league. Hyman is in the hundreds. Gallagher is also in the top 10 when it comes to scoring chances per 60. Hyman is in the 40s. Add that to the list posted above by Regal. I watch a lot of the Leafs and I agree with you that Hyman has improved a ton over the years. He's a great player, for sure! But he's no Gallagher by any means.

 

[hockeeyyy]

I went with Gallagher. He's an absolute pain in the ass to play against. So is Hyman, but I do prefer skill, which Gallagher has quite a bit of.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Pageau better than both these fools combined.

 

[Hisch13r]

Gallagher
Hyman
Pageau

 

[Madap]

So you're literally saying that Hyman is better because he PKs? Because everything else points to Gallagher. How do you factor in the huge difference in possession? I mean, Gallagher is a top player in the entire league. Hyman is in the hundreds. Gallagher is also in the top 10 when it comes to scoring chances per 60. Hyman is in the 40s. Add that to the list posted above by Regal. I watch a lot of the Leafs and I agree with you that Hyman has improved a ton over the years. He's a great player, for sure! But he's no Gallagher by any means.

No, I’m not saying that. Hyman is actually producing more than Gallagher this season while being on the PK too.

Why are you putting more emphasis on corsi than actual production? I don’t care if a player skates around in the ozone and throws muffins towards the net all game (not saying Gallagher does this, just an example). There’s a lot that advanced stats can’t tell you. What actually wins games is putting pucks in the net and keeping them out of your net, and Hyman has been just as good as, if not better than, Gallagher this season.

 

[m0pe]

Gallagher will forever be underrated.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

To be fair, he has progressed a huge amount from that point. The player he is today is not the player he was then. Babcock obviously saw what some of us did not though.

Oh for sure, he's improved immensely since then. But I'd say the area he improved is largely his ability to actually bury chances now. I think his "away from the puck" game is largely the same, which I always thought was underrated by a lot of Leaf fans in his early years in terms of how it helps the skilled guys on his line do their own thing.

 

[Buck Naked]

No, I’m not saying that. Hyman is actually producing more than Gallagher this season while being on the PK too.

Why are you putting more emphasis on corsi than actual production? I don’t care if a player skates around in the ozone and throws muffins towards the net all game (not saying Gallagher does this, just an example). There’s a lot that advanced stats can’t tell you. What actually wins games is putting pucks in the net and keeping them out of your net, and Hyman has been just as good as, if not better than, Gallagher this season.

I'm putting emphasis on things that actually matters in hockey. Without possession you won't score. Without creating chances while in possession, you won't score. There's a reason why Gallagher comes out on top by a mile when looking at a real sample size, other than the fluky 20 games this season. And seriously. They both have the same amount of points 5v5 this season. Gallagher just scores his at a higher rate than Hyman.. Without playing the majority of his time on a line with Matthews and Marner. Wouldn't put too much emphasis on it though. This season is not like the others.

 

[Madap]

I'm putting emphasis on things that actually matters in hockey. Without possession you won't score. Without creating chances while in possession, you won't score. There's a reason why Gallagher comes out on top by a mile when looking at a real sample size, other than the fluky 20 games this season. And seriously. They both have the same amount of points 5v5 this season. Gallagher just scores his at a higher rate than Hyman.. Without playing the majority of his time on a line with Matthews and Marner. Wouldn't put too much emphasis on it though. This season is not like the others.

Actual points don't matter in hockey anymore? News to me.

If possession is such a great predictor of success, and Gallagher is one of the tops in the league, why is Hyman outscoring him? Is Hyman lucky? Is Gallagher unlucky? The latter seems unlikely since he's never even cracked 60 points despite being a possession monster, and to you, that matters the most and will lead to scoring.

Advanced stats are helpful, and sure, can potentially be used to predict future success. But they aren't as useful as actual production or even watching the game. There is so much they just don't tell. Possession means nothing if you don't generate high quality chances. It means nothing if you do generate them but are lacking finish. What about the fact that teams tend to lay back when they are winning - and Toronto has done a lot of that lately - so the score effects lead to it looking like Toronto is getting outplayed for part of the game when they aren't even trying as hard. I can come up with so many more reasons why advanced stats don't paint the whole picture - so I find it funny when people use advanced stats to try to prop up middling players. Gallagher isn't some young star superstar who is getting unlucky. He's a good possession player with pretty good production. Hyman has similar production with less possession metrics, but also PKs and is probably better defensively. Pick your poison. Neither one is wrong for this season.

FYI Hyman has not only played with Matthews and Marner. The guys has played on 3 different lines with a ton of linemates. Its because he's always been the catalyst of whatever line he is on.

 

[David Suzuki]

Actual points don't matter in hockey anymore? News to me.

If possession is such a great predictor of success, and Gallagher is one of the tops in the league, why is Hyman outscoring him? Is Hyman lucky? Is Gallagher unlucky? The latter seems unlikely since he's never even cracked 60 points despite being a possession monster, and to you, that matters the most and will lead to scoring.

Advanced stats are helpful, and sure, can potentially be used to predict future success. But they aren't as useful as actual production or even watching the game. There is so much they just don't tell. Possession means nothing if you don't generate high quality chances. It means nothing if you do generate them but are lacking finish. What about the fact that teams tend to lay back when they are winning - and Toronto has done a lot of that lately - so the score effects lead to it looking like Toronto is getting outplayed for part of the game when they aren't even trying as hard. I can come up with so many more reasons why advanced stats don't paint the whole picture - so I find it funny when people use advanced stats to try to prop up middling players. Gallagher isn't some young star superstar who is getting unlucky. He's a good possession player with pretty good production. Hyman has similar production with less possession metrics, but also PKs and is probably better defensively. Pick your poison. Neither one is wrong for this season.

FYI Hyman has not only played with Matthews and Marner. The guys has played on 3 different lines with a ton of linemates. Its because he's always been the catalyst of whatever line he is on.

all this typing and not a soul is going to read it

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

This poll wouldn't have been close two years ago.

A top six winger against a grinder and a third-line centre.

Really, all it says is how much ground Pageau and Hyman have made up.

Well no.
Look at the people who voted for hyman. Its 99% leafs fans.

 

[NyQuil]

Well no.
Look at the people who voted for hyman. Its 99% leafs fans.

Why a Hab fan would even make this poll is weird.

 

[Madap]

all this typing and not a soul is going to read it

The person I’m having a conversation will at least haha. If he chooses not to respond, oh well. That’s the nature of a message board sometimes

 

[David Suzuki]

Why a Hab fan would even make this poll is weird.

Yeah it's an odd comparison I think Gallagher has established himself as in a different tier then the other two.

 

[brock0791]

Hyman AINEC.

I wouldn't trade Hyman for any of those two. Add Tom Wilson, Josh Anderson, whoever else onto the list. Hyman is better than them

He is the best grinder in the league. Can play on any line, and give 50-60 points

Hyman's career high is 41 playing 19 top 6 minutes and would max out 30 points playing 15 mins on a 3rd line shutdown

Only 4 forwards have played more time and have a worse ppg

 

[BHD]

Gallagher

Pageau
Hyman

 

[Joe n]

I'm putting emphasis on things that actually matters in hockey. Without possession you won't score. Without creating chances while in possession, you won't score. There's a reason why Gallagher comes out on top by a mile when looking at a real sample size, other than the fluky 20 games this season. And seriously. They both have the same amount of points 5v5 this season. Gallagher just scores his at a higher rate than Hyman.. Without playing the majority of his time on a line with Matthews and Marner. Wouldn't put too much emphasis on it though. This season is not like the others.

Advanced stats don't count when supporting leaf players in polls. they shouldn't count now i guess

 

[CatchyTune]

Gallagher is the best player here. As much as I love Hyman.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Why a Hab fan would even make this poll is weird.

I've seen people on the main board call Gallagher a poor man Hyman and on our own board saying Pageau was a better bargain compare to Gallagher because of his contract, and those 3 player having similar style of play and stats this season, I was curious was what the general opinion of the three.

 

[Habano]

Zach Hyman, all day and every day.

He's a priceless treasure. I can't even put it into words.

He needs to be a Leaf for life.

100% Hyman AINEC!! He's the only one of those 3 that will end up in the HOF.

He skates like McDavid, has Patrick Kane's hands and Gretzky's hockey vision.

What an absolute phenom!

 

[Buck Naked]

Advanced stats don't count when supporting leaf players in polls. they shouldn't count now i guess

Seems more like they don't count when they're not supporting Leaf players. If Hyman was top 2 in the NHL in possession metrics that would've been the number one thing Leaf fans pointed to when voting for him in this thread. Now, all of a sudden, they don't count. Having one more point in 20-ish weird games is the shit that made the camel tip over.

 

[sharks9]

Gallagher is easily better than both of them.

 

[Bileur]

Gally
JGP

Hyman

First post nailed it IMO.

I like Hyman a lot, perfect complementary player.

That said I’m a bit confused about the posts touting his constant effort as a factor that tips it in his favour over Pageau or Gallagher. All three of these guys are absolute buzz saws who don’t take shifts off.

 

[JoelWarlord]

This is Gallagher and it's not close what are we even doing here lmao

 

[David Suzuki]

Right around the time Leafs fans start saying stuff like this they usually lose a stinker so bet against them big time next game to all my degenerates out there.

Like clockwork.