Prospect Info: Hurricanes Prospect Info and Discussion - Part VII - Cliff Pu and other shit

[bleedgreen]

fox is certainly the real deal. if you look at his offensive production relative to guys like quin hughes and cale makar, you'll appreciate his offensive upside even more. what he has done on the international stage is also highly encouraging for his long term upside. this is a prospect worth making allowances for. it also strikes me as interesting what our plan would be in the event we unload a rhd. they might suspect fox can do as the aforementioned mcavoy did and come in right away.

He doesn’t seem to be close to either of those two in terms of skating, which is what I think makes them such high end prospects. He’s smart, he moves the puck very well, he runs the pp but I’m in the group that while excited about him don’t assume we should just hand him a spot. I question the skating defensively as well as the overall defensive game.

I’m also skeptical about him signing. He’s a Harvard psych major, there’s no reason to read into anything he’s said in a positive light. I think it’s 50/50 at best. If we’re required to give him a spot to get him signed, I’m not seeing it this year. We’re not moving TVR and one of the big guys, that would cut a leg out right now. Wouldn’t be surprised to mostly stand pat as we’re scoring right now.

If he’s willing to sign and watch most of the rest of the way, then we make moves in the off season maybe. That doesn’t sound like something he’d be up for.

 

[JacquesCousteau]

Pu recalled from Florida. Plan the parade?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Pu recalled from Florida. Plan the parade?

PPG player in the echl!

 

[DougieSmash]

Bean getting underrated heavily. As of now, he's better prospect than Fox easily.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t know if he’s better but I do think they should at least be rated as equal until Fox is a pro. Once they’re both playing at the same level it’ll be easier to separate obviously. I would think Fox needs some AHL time unless he really crushes it from day one.

 

[Bunch of Jurcos]

It sucks that I am in the minority when it comes to how Justin Faulk is viewed. If you read most of our GDT you will probably see a page or two about how ready people are to move Faulk or how they severely dislike his play every game. I agree he has had a rough few years after his injury and he's not what we thought he would be. I do believe he's improved quite a bit this year but he's here to give offense from the blueline and if he's not doing that then he has less value I suppose.

Even though I am a fan of his more than most I do understand he should be the one to go. Pesce is a better pure defenseman when he has to play on the right, Hamilton is a better scorer the past few years, and Fox or Mckeown are cheaper options for the third pairing. It just sucks that the fan base, even if rightfully so, has soured on him so. I wish him success wherever he goes when his time comes to be moved as well as I hope Fox is as good as advertised when he gets here.

 

[Vagrant]

It sucks that I am in the minority when it comes to how Justin Faulk is viewed. If you read most of our GDT you will probably see a page or two about how ready people are to move Faulk or how they severely dislike his play every game. I agree he has had a rough few years after his injury and he's not what we thought he would be. I do believe he's improved quite a bit this year but he's here to give offense from the blueline and if he's not doing that then he has less value I suppose.

Even though I am a fan of his more than most I do understand he should be the one to go. Pesce is a better pure defenseman when he has to play on the right, Hamilton is a better scorer the past few years, and Fox or Mckeown are cheaper options for the third pairing. It just sucks that the fan base, even if rightfully so, has soured on him so. I wish him success wherever he goes when his time comes to be moved as well as I hope Fox is as good as advertised when he gets here.

its been a lot of the same vocal minority in my opinion, which isn't to say they're bad or wrong but when you have a situation that's amplified you're going to notice mistakes a lot more frequently and be much tougher on them when you see them. there's a bit of confirmation bias as it pertains to justin's game. few will observe and comment positively on the fact that he played 28 minutes last night of largely mistake free hockey. there's also the matter of the slavin effect in which an absence of routine coverage lapses creates an expectation of perfection for all other defenders when it's just not a realistic standard. slavin is stupid special defensively and it's only natural that others would look pedestrian comparatively.

another knock against justin's offense is that even in the time he's been in the league, the hockey brains have moved away from the umbrella powerplay, net front, and rip 100 mph one timers from the point. the lanes just cut off too quickly now. you watch a powerplay like florida runs and notice how much movement they exhibit away from the puck and how everything is in constant motion. you watch a carolina powerplay and notice everyone standing stationary waiting at their designated spot and not adjusting fast enough to spots where the ice opens up. faulk gets a lot of the heat for that philosophical approach to the powerplay, because it almost always ends in a shot attempt into the shin pads of the up front killers. faulk doesn't have the ice vision to belong on a top unit powerplay in the current iteration of the league. i seriously can't recall the last time i saw him make a pass that impressed me in an offensive capacity. the most important factor on the powerplay now is to move both bodies and the puck quicker than the goalie can track it and that's never been faulk's game. conversely, watching hamilton join the rush at certain times and distribute quick touch passes and shoot wrist shots for rebounds performs so much better. it would be great to see justin evolve into a minutes eating even strength, second unit powerplay, second unit penalty killer and get around 20 minutes a night. that's where he fits in the current scheme of things now in my estimation. he'd be elite in that deployment. we just don't have that traditional powerpay quarterback to take that pressure off him. ideally we will see fox or bean take those reigns eventually. the problem is that offense from the defense takes time. only in rare situations do players come in from the american league or elsewhere and contribute in the exact same way offensively.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I'm going to make one last-and-final statement regarding Justin Faulk, then I'm out of the business for good.

I appreciate Justin Faulk for what he is.

In my opinion, he's a solid, well-rounded, top-4, soon-to-be-27-year-old, right-handed defenseman making reasonable money for this season and one more. He's a decent skater, with a decent shot and decent puck movement skills. His hockey IQ is below average, but with experience, he's been able to become a better defender. His current numbers, both fancy and otherwise, suggest he is solidly below-average overall when adjusted for playing time (i.e. power-play production, etc.), and they are trending downwards. This is his eighth season in the NHL, and he has yet to play in a playoff game.

I don't "hate" Justin Faulk. I don't want him traded. I'm not scapegoating him. I simply hate that he is being used like a No. 1 defenseman. He, quite simply, is not. There is simply no justification for Justin Faulk to skate over 29 minutes in a regulation 60-minute game, especially on a team with Dougie Hamilton, Jaccob Slavin, Brett Pesce and Calvin de Haan. There is simply no justification for his usage on the power play, where he has been historically ineffective.

In short, my problems aren't with Faulk at all. They are with Brind'Amour. He is very much Rod Brind'Amour's Derek Ryan, and like Ryan did last season, it is costing us points. And like Peters couldn't with Ryan, I do not understand how Brind'Amour can't see this with Faulk. We'd be a better team if Faulk played less and our other defensemen played more, especially Dougie Hamilton. But in the end, it's not my decision, so I'm out of the business of analyzing Justin Faulk's usage.

 

[A Star is Burns]

You couldn't even last 24 hours on your never posting about Faulk again kick. You'll be back!

 

[My Special Purpose]

You couldn't even last 24 hours on your never posting about Faulk again kick. You'll be back!

I wanted to be crystal clear that I'm upset with his usage, not him. I felt it was important. I'm really done.

Starting ...









... now!

 

[NotOpie]

Stelio Mattheos put up 2 more points and has tied his high water mark for points...in 13 less games. While production in his D+2 year isn't the be all and end all, he's shown a pretty straight line progression. He's a right shot forward who can slide into the center spot if necessary (but has mostly played RW). At 6'1", 200 lbs. he's got the size to play a heavy game.

 

[CandyCanes]

Stelio Mattheos put up 2 more points and has tied his high water mark for points...in 13 less games. While production in his D+2 year isn't the be all and end all, he's shown a pretty straight line progression. He's a right shot forward who can slide into the center spot if necessary (but has mostly played RW). At 6'1", 200 lbs. he's got the size to play a heavy game.

To add to your post he’s got 40 goals and 90 points in 55 games. He’s currently tied for 2nd in points in the WHL. I’m very intrigued by him.

 

[NotOpie]

To add to your post he’s got 40 goals and 90 points in 55 games. He’s currently tied for 2nd in points in the WHL. I’m very intrigued by him.

Yeah, the only downside is that he's considered only an "average" skater....super smart and with a great shot, it seems like he projects as a potential secondary 3rd line scorer....which would be fine as a 3rd rounder.

 

[RibFrabcus]

Yeah, the only downside is that he's considered only an "average" skater....super smart and with a great shot, it seems like he projects as a potential secondary 3rd line scorer....which would be fine as a 3rd rounder.

Yep. Getting a regular nhler out of the 3rd round is a win.

 

[emptyNedder]

Yeah, the only downside is that he's considered only an "average" skater....super smart and with a great shot, it seems like he projects as a potential secondary 3rd line scorer....which would be fine as a 3rd rounder.

I think his game might be similar to how Williams is currently deployed. He has tons of power play points, which suggests that he is much more dangerous in an advantageous offensive zone situation than as a transition or skilled line forward. The one other strength as I understand his game is that he is solid defensively. I would be surprised if he doesn't end up in the NHL.

 

[emptyNedder]

Helvig won another game. He has been letting in some goals his last few games, but he has won something like 9 in a row. His overall record is 18-5-3.

 

[Unsustainable]

Don’t remember this pick, but he’s ours.

 

[TheBigKahuna]

its been a lot of the same vocal minority in my opinion, which isn't to say they're bad or wrong but when you have a situation that's amplified you're going to notice mistakes a lot more frequently and be much tougher on them when you see them. there's a bit of confirmation bias as it pertains to justin's game. few will observe and comment positively on the fact that he played 28 minutes last night of largely mistake free hockey. there's also the matter of the slavin effect in which an absence of routine coverage lapses creates an expectation of perfection for all other defenders when it's just not a realistic standard. slavin is stupid special defensively and it's only natural that others would look pedestrian comparatively.

another knock against justin's offense is that even in the time he's been in the league, the hockey brains have moved away from the umbrella powerplay, net front, and rip 100 mph one timers from the point. the lanes just cut off too quickly now. you watch a powerplay like florida runs and notice how much movement they exhibit away from the puck and how everything is in constant motion. you watch a carolina powerplay and notice everyone standing stationary waiting at their designated spot and not adjusting fast enough to spots where the ice opens up. faulk gets a lot of the heat for that philosophical approach to the powerplay, because it almost always ends in a shot attempt into the shin pads of the up front killers. faulk doesn't have the ice vision to belong on a top unit powerplay in the current iteration of the league. i seriously can't recall the last time i saw him make a pass that impressed me in an offensive capacity. the most important factor on the powerplay now is to move both bodies and the puck quicker than the goalie can track it and that's never been faulk's game. conversely, watching hamilton join the rush at certain times and distribute quick touch passes and shoot wrist shots for rebounds performs so much better. it would be great to see justin evolve into a minutes eating even strength, second unit powerplay, second unit penalty killer and get around 20 minutes a night. that's where he fits in the current scheme of things now in my estimation. he'd be elite in that deployment. we just don't have that traditional powerpay quarterback to take that pressure off him. ideally we will see fox or bean take those reigns eventually. the problem is that offense from the defense takes time. only in rare situations do players come in from the american league or elsewhere and contribute in the exact same way offensively.

You nailed it.

He's a fine addition as a 4th -6th d-man option. Has zero business on the powerplay. He's being severely misused by Brindy. And that definitely jades my opinion of him.

 

[DougieSmash]

Mattheos is solid two-way player, a lot of energy. I believe he could be ideal second line RW that brings size, defense and PP presence.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I'm starting to think Rod might be playing the long game while we fans play the short game.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Mattheos excites me. Not expecting a game changer, but a solid middle 6 complimentary scorer is a great turnout of a third rounder. Teams are spreading out their talent more these days, he could be a guy that finishes Svech's passes a lot more often than McGinn for instance.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but I'm starting to think Rod might be playing the long game while we fans play the short game.

Is there more to this?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Is there more to this?

There is. I won't bring up Faulk because you are banned from talking about Faulk.

I remember early in the season when Mrazek gave up a bunch of goals and we were all complaining about Rod not pulling him. In the end, the team had his back and they won that game. I'm speculating (and could be way off base), that early on, Rod was making short term sacrifices to build confidence and a team identity long term. We now have 2 goalies playing with a lot of confidence. IIRC, there were comments early in the season when Rod didn't use his timeouts. Well, again, using timeouts too frequently ends up being like the boy who cried wolf and maybe that was his thinking. When he uses them, he wants it to have an impact, particularly late in the season. People were (and have been) screaming about sticking Svech with Martinook, but Svech probably wasn't ready to handle more and Martinook has now become a pretty effective player, more than any of us expected and has become somewhat of a leader on this team. In December, when the team was losing badly, Rod kept talking about sticking with it. Again, there was some derision on this board. There are other examples as well where to us, it looks like a head scratcher, but maybe there is more to it than most of us see.

Of course, maybe I'm giving him too much credit and it's dumb luck .

No coach makes every decision perfectly and every coach makes decisions that we fans complain about so I'm not knocking fans for pointing out individual decisions that may not be correct or to their liking, but overall this team is one of the least talented we've had in a long time (particularly on the forward front) and has the best record since 05/06 at this point in the season. Something is working.

 

[My Special Purpose]

There is. I won't bring up Faulk because you are banned from talking about Faulk.

I remember early in the season when Mrazek gave up a bunch of goals and we were all complaining about Rod not pulling him. In the end, the team had his back and they won that game. I'm speculating (and could be way off base), that early on, Rod was making short term sacrifices to build confidence and a team identity long term. We now have 2 goalies playing with a lot of confidence. IIRC, there were comments early in the season when Rod didn't use his timeouts. Well, again, using timeouts too frequently ends up being like the boy who cried wolf and maybe that was his thinking. When he uses them, he wants it to have an impact, particularly late in the season. People were (and have been) screaming about sticking Svech with Martinook, but Svech probably wasn't ready to handle more and Martinook has now become a pretty effective player, more than any of us expected and has become somewhat of a leader on this team. In December, when the team was losing badly, Rod kept talking about sticking with it. Again, there was some derision on this board. There are other examples as well where to us, it looks like a head scratcher, but maybe there is more to it than most of us see.

Of course, maybe I'm giving him too much credit and it's dumb luck .

No coach makes every decision perfectly and every coach makes decisions that we fans complain about so I'm not knocking fans for pointing out individual decisions that may not be correct or to their liking, but overall this team is one of the least talented we've had in a long time (particularly on the forward front) and has the best record since 05/06 at this point in the season. Something is working.

I know, and I agree with all of it. That's why I've kinda punted. Even if he who I am prohibited to speak of played 29 minutes, the power play looked like hot garbage for a full two-minute 5-on-3, we somehow scored two power-play goals and won the game.

It *seems* that we could be doing some things better, but ... maybe not.

In Rod we Trust. Maybe?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I know, and I agree with all of it. That's why I've kinda punted. Even if he who I am prohibited to speak of played 29 minutes, the power play looked like hot garbage for a full two-minute 5-on-3, we somehow scored two power-play goals and won the game.

Can you name the 1 defenseman out of 6 that was not on the ice for a single goal against that game (IIRC)? Can you name the 1 defenseman who scored a goal, and a key goal at that?

I bet you can't, you know why? Because you are banned from bringing him up!

Seriously though, I agree with you (and others). Seems weird that he's getting that much more time than other guys and it would be interesting to know Rod's thinking there, because on the surface, it doesn't make that much sense to me either, although they are winning so it's hard to argue too much.

In Rod we Trust. Maybe?

I don't think we have much of a choice.