Post-Game Talk: Hurricanes 4, Penguins 0 - Throw the Damn Towel

[Dipsy Doodle]

I just don't see that making any difference. How much better offensively is any 3C you're going to bring in over Sheahan? Not much statistically, if we're being realistically. That's not going to make any significant difference, adding Brassard to be the 3rd line center isn't going to stop Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang and Murray from underachieving.

I respectfully disagree, especially since Kessel has had a very good year on the whole and Malkin's about holding steady despite he and Kessel not really having any chemistry. Our problems are not unfixable, at least in terms of getting back into playoff position.

Get a 3C who can exploit Kessel and justify moving Sprong up with Geno, and then we have something to work with.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Right now I’d say that the biggest problem and a deterrent for a shakeup trade is that the problems seem to be spreading. More of them are playing badly today than the beginning of the season.

 

[vodeni]

Honestly I thought Simon was one of our best players last night. Not that that's saying much, but he was good.

thats some new levels of good...you mean just showing a pulse put you in Good category

 

[Empoleon8771]

I respectfully disagree, especially since Kessel has had a very good year on the whole and Malkin's about holding steady despite he and Kessel not really having any chemistry. Our problems are not unfixable, at least in terms of getting back into playoff position.

Get a 3C who can exploit Kessel and justify moving Sprong up with Geno, and then we have something to work with.

And your 1st line still sucks, your team defense still sucks and Murray is still having a bad year. Adding a 3C alone does nothing to significantly move the needle on this team. You want a 3C because you've wanted a 3C for a long time, but that's not actually going to make any significant difference with this team. The issues with this team aren't fixable with 1 trade. Hell, they might not even be fixable with trades.

 

[Tom Hanks]

are they really on that pace, wow! it sounds different whne you bring that up, it just does not pass the smell test, especially Jake, if you were to ask me without looking at data I would say 10-15 goals tops...I guess that line used to look dominant it just does not anymore...

Our offensive zone time without knowing the stats would be really bad I’d imagine. Straight in straight out.

This team doesn’t support each other and we scrape by on talent not actual good hockey.

 

[Gurglesons]

I’m so tired of the “Crosby and Letang” are the only ones who are bad thing. Schultz is getting paid 5.5 mil and has been terrible. Hunwick is a joke of a signing. Dumoulin looks bad if he is or isn’t with Letang. Cole takes bad penalty after bad penalty because he is consistently beaten.

Our forwards provide no defensive support. Sheary and Rust look like they did when they first came up from the A in 2015-16 instead of like the game breakers they were the last two years. Hagelin is trash. Worst 4th line in the last ten years.

I think you have Sheahan, Jarry, and Maatta as the only highlights this year. And Maatta is still struggling with consistency. Maybe throw Jake, Malkin and Kessel as break even for looking like they actually give a damn

Your 3rd Line center and back-up goalie can’t be your only highlights.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And your 1st line still sucks, your team defense still sucks and Murray is still having a bad year. Adding a 3C alone does nothing to significantly move the needle on this team. You want a 3C because you've wanted a 3C for a long time, but that's not actually going to make any significant difference with this team. The issues with this team aren't fixable with 1 trade. Hell, they might not even be fixable with trades.

That's to be determined. It's been one of JR's clear prerogatives, so hopefully he can make good and we can see what kind of a difference it makes.

I'm confident Crosby can be shaken out of this poor year, I don't think Murray's been as bad as his numbers suggest, and once Jarry gets back we have another solid option anyway. You're throwing in the towel too early for a core that's had so much success and rebounded so remarkably, before we've tried significant moves that could actually affect change.

Isn't giving up before you've tried any move bigger than acquiring Riley Sheahan more than a bit defeatist?

 

[Pancakes]

thats some new levels of good...you mean just showing a pulse put you in Good category

At this point? Yeah lol.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I just don't see that making any difference. How much better offensively is any 3C you're going to bring in over Sheahan? Not much statistically, if we're being realistically. That's not going to make any significant difference, adding Brassard to be the 3rd line center isn't going to stop Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang and Murray from underachieving.

It’ll help take some of the mental load that’s wearing some of these guys down. Bringing in 3-5 now could make a difference.

Brassard is going to help next year too so guys that aren’t UFA’s will still be useful. Even if it doesn’t do much this season you can at least say we tried.

 

[Gurglesons]

And let’s be honest about Sprong. He may be NHL ready, but dude is not putting up 20.

Has he even put himself in line for a clean look?

Huge, huge difference between him and even Sheary when he came up. Feel like the best route would be to honestly move him as he isn’t a necessity for this team and unless you slate him in our top six in the next two years, what is the point?

 

[cheesedanish87]

That's to be determined. It's been one of JR's clear prerogatives, so hopefully he can make good and we can see what kind of a difference it makes.

I'm confident Crosby can be shaken out of this poor year, I don't think Murray's been as bad as his numbers suggest, and once Jarry gets back we have another solid option anyway. You're throwing in the towel too early for a core that's had so much success and rebounded so remarkably, before we've tried significant moves that could actually affect change.

Isn't giving up before you've tried any move bigger than acquiring Riley Sheahan more than a bit defeatist?

I posted that the other day.

That's why you blame your star players, it starts with them, its impossible to win when they play this poor no matter what type of depth you have.


Edit My bad i meant to quote pixies post.

 

[Andy99]

one thing that I see as a major issue and why we can't get quality shots on goal is how we transitioning to offense. In 2016 we used to have our d-man making quick first second step with the puck, either skating out or short pass to our center that crosses the blue line and entering neutral zone with the speed, at the same time two forwards and sometimes with another d-man all skating into the opponent zone, either through short pass supporing each other or dumping the puck behind on the place where we can get it, while you have three guys covering all spots in their zone, in the meantime both of our d-man are on the blue line holding that spot tight

fast forward this year:
1) our d-man when the get to the puck are scared and they have no idea what to do with the puck, they are not even trying to skate out (not even tanger or Shultz), tehre is no F3 coming low (except Sheahan occasionally) to receive that puck, so the best they can do is to try to fire that puck against the wall where our two wings are statically position without speed without any motion trying to chip that puck to avoid icing. Thats it, thats our game when we look bad.

Sometimes I see they are trying those short passes but it becomes almost funny when the7y start hitting each other into the skates or stretching the passes way out of reach.

I can't believe that the coaches don't recognize this. However I kept hearing "we have to get the puck behid the defens and grind the defense down, every time you get in game interview with Sully or Recci, sometime it works agains bad and slow defense (Philadelphia's bottom 4 d-man for example), and when it works and some of our guy retrieve the puck its a grind game, circle around with the bunch of perimeter plays and blue line shot attempts in hope for a rebound which we track badly anyways.

again is this the coaching issue or is it the players? No idea, but they will not win again with this kind of playing, so either change something or change the players...

Agree in part, but there's really two problems:
One is the D feeding the transition game, as you note. That's problem one for playing the style Sully wants them to play. No trade is going to help this unless we swap out two or three D men, which won't happen
But problem two is that teams are attempting to thwart Sully' style against the top two lines by a neutral zone type trap that is forcing them to play dump and chase like Ottawa did in the playoffs. That's what Sully is alluding to. However, teams know we don't have the players to be consistently successful at that type of play because we lack good board work and physical forechecking for the most part. A LW with jam and a better offensive center would help with this, but is it enough given the state of our D--expensive but not playing well? I don't think it is. We should just be positioning ourselves for better runs in 2018-19, 19-20 IMO

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I like Brassard, but what we're giving is the big question isn't it? Unless they'll take Sheary as the main piece, which they won't, I just don't know. I'd prefer to keep the 1st rounder the way this shit show has gone, and Sprong is pretty much off the table for me for multiple reasons. We'd need to shed Hagelin too probably. Anyone still want to blame JR for not being able to shake out a significant deal? Not as easy as it sounds when you really, really crunch the numbers.

And let’s be honest about Sprong. He may be NHL ready, but dude is not putting up 20.

Has he even put himself in line for a clean look?

Oh I think he's been underwhelming but he's gotten in decent position to shoot a few times. He hasn't been up in a long time, and agree with whoever said last night that he was trying to fit in too much as opposed to taking charge, which I think he likes to do. Give him a little more time. At worst he's talented and we aren't exactly swimming in prospects.

 

[Pancakes]

I like Brassard, but what we're giving is the big question isn't it? Unless they'll take Sheary as the main piece, which they won't, I just don't know. I'd prefer to keep the 1st rounder the way this **** show has gone, and Sprong is pretty much off the table for me for multiple reasons. We'd need to shed Hagelin too probably. Anyone still want to blame JR for not being able to shake out a significant deal? Not as easy as it sounds when you really, really crunch the numbers.

I imagine the first will be lottery protected if it is traded.

Tbh I'd prefer to not even have to do that though. No guarantee we won't be just as bad next year. Just keep the thing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At this point, I'd rather keep the 1st, which basically eliminates any possibility of the Penguins trading for Brassard or someone of that caliber.

I also don't see what there is to be mad with Sprong. He has played really well for the Penguins so far this year, despite not scoring any points yet. He's shooting a lot (11 shots in 3 games), he hasn't been on the ice for a goal against yet, his possession stats are absolutely incredible and he looks to be one guy who's actually giving an effort out there. If he was scoring goals, people would be saying how amazing he has been so far.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I don't think its that crazy to think the pens might end up with a top 5 pick this year.

If you think this team isn't playing with enough effort now wait til February and March come around when the team has nothing to play for.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Agree in part, but there's really two problems:
One is the D feeding the transition game, as you note. That's problem one for playing the style Sully wants them to play. No trade is going to help this unless we swap out two or three D men, which won't happen
But problem two is that teams are attempting to thwart Sully' style against the top two lines by a neutral zone type trap that is forcing them to play dump and chase like Ottawa did in the playoffs. That's what Sully is alluding to. However, teams know we don't have the players to be consistently successful at that type of play because we lack good board work and physical forechecking for the most part. A LW with jam and a better offensive center would help with this, but is it enough given the state of our D--expensive but not playing well? I don't think it is. We should just be positioning ourselves for better runs in 2018-19, 19-20 IMO

Great post agree with everything but have a different opinion on the D

I’d imagine the D would be better if the forwards roster and play was better. The D is built on the premise we are a 3 line scoring team (and a solid 4th).

Now we don’t need to keep all our D. I’d shop Dumo and/or Maatta for forward help and see what’s out there.

 

[ColePens]

I’m so tired of the “Crosby and Letang” are the only ones who are bad thing. Schultz is getting paid 5.5 mil and has been terrible. Hunwick is a joke of a signing. Dumoulin looks bad if he is or isn’t with Letang. Cole takes bad penalty after bad penalty because he is consistently beaten.

Our forwards provide no defensive support. Sheary and Rust look like they did when they first came up from the A in 2015-16 instead of like the game breakers they were the last two years. Hagelin is trash. Worst 4th line in the last ten years.

I think you have Sheahan, Jarry, and Maatta as the only highlights this year. And Maatta is still struggling with consistency. Maybe throw Jake, Malkin and Kessel as break even for looking like they actually give a damn

Your 3rd Line center and back-up goalie can’t be your only highlights.

I think you defend Letang/Sid a little bit here. But you are also correct - it's not all their fault.

- Sid/Letang: For sure.. leaders of this team and playing probably their most inconsistent seasons of their career. They deserve blame. They are part of the problem for sure.

- Schultz/Dumo/Hunwick: While their role may be less, they sure as hell aren't playing up to their pay grade.

- Sheary/Rust/Guentzel/Hags (especially): Same as above. While their role may be less, not a single one of these players is matching their level from the last 2 years. And Jake is struggling, too.

- JR: The majority agreed and thought it was fair to give JR time to fill in holes and make this team better. That was in June/July/August. It's now f***ing January. Too late. You didn't have til February and the writing has been on the wall far too long. JR is not THE person to blame, but he damn sure is part of this, too.

- Sully: Mixing lines every game isn't the spark we need. You should have altered the system if they couldn't play it or you should be finding different ways to get the team motivated. Clearly the methods you are using are not working as the team has been flat for about the full season.

- Natural reasons: I mean there are legit excuses. Tangers came back from a brutal injury. Sid/Hags/etc. have played the most hockey out of anyone. These aren't just shit excuses. They are legit.

The ONLY two guys i'll give props to are Kessel/Horny. 81 is our team MVP. Hardest worker. If PHIL KESSEL is your hardest working player, you are up against it. And he is. He has backchecked harder than any player. He's consistent. He delivers. He's our MVP. Hornqvist, while far from as talented, is our heart. He may not be the best player but at least the guy brings his heart every single game.

This is not some 1 person blame. Sid/Letang should be at the top because they are leaders and guys like Jake/Sheary/Rust need them to be at their best to compliment them. JR should be right there w/ Sid/Letang. Sully is not too far behind.

My message is simple (and too damn long to read.. ) but it's tiring listening to people blame one or two guys when it's a collective group issue.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It's very fair to say it's not all on Sid and Letang. But it's also very fair to rake them over coals for their performances/production thus far. They have been playing at a level that is utterly unacceptable for players of their caliber and importance to this team. So, yeah, I agree that it goes beyond those two--but they are very much contributing to this team's embarrassing tailspin thus far.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I think you defend Letang/Sid a little bit here. But you are also correct - it's not all their fault.

- Sid/Letang: For sure.. leaders of this team and playing probably their most inconsistent seasons of their career. They deserve blame. They are part of the problem for sure.

- Schultz/Dumo/Hunwick: While their role may be less, they sure as hell aren't playing up to their pay grade.

- Sheary/Rust/Guentzel/Hags (especially): Same as above. While their role may be less, not a single one of these players is matching their level from the last 2 years. And Jake is struggling, too.

- JR: The majority agreed and thought it was fair to give JR time to fill in holes and make this team better. That was in June/July/August. It's now ****ing January. Too late. You didn't have til February and the writing has been on the wall far too long. JR is not THE person to blame, but he damn sure is part of this, too.

- Sully: Mixing lines every game isn't the spark we need. You should have altered the system if they couldn't play it or you should be finding different ways to get the team motivated. Clearly the methods you are using are not working as the team has been flat for about the full season.

- Natural reasons: I mean there are legit excuses. Tangers came back from a brutal injury. Sid/Hags/etc. have played the most hockey out of anyone. These aren't just **** excuses. They are legit.

The ONLY two guys i'll give props to are Kessel/Horny. 81 is our team MVP. Hardest worker. If PHIL KESSEL is your hardest working player, you are up against it. And he is. He has backchecked harder than any player. He's consistent. He delivers. He's our MVP. Hornqvist, while far from as talented, is our heart. He may not be the best player but at least the guy brings his heart every single game.

This is not some 1 person blame. Sid/Letang should be at the top because they are leaders and guys like Jake/Sheary/Rust need them to be at their best to compliment them. JR should be right there w/ Sid/Letang. Sully is not too far behind.

My message is simple (and too damn long to read.. ) but it's tiring listening to people blame one or two guys when it's a collective group issue.

This is a great post.

Spells out all our problems. Each one probably affects the chances of another cup fairly equally (some a little more than others but not by a great deal). There is no “XXXX is 90% of the problem”. Each problem is taking their fair share of the pie.

 

[Ryder71]

Sid and Letang aren't the only problems, but they are getting paid the most. And I do think when you make the big bucks more is expected. There is a lot of blame to go around to be sure, but at the same time we absolutely have no chance unless these two return to their customary level of play. Relative to their talent and skill level they way way below their customary level. More so than anyone else.

 

[TNT87]

When will I realize not to get my hopes up into thinking this team will finally turn it around? Fool me once shame on you. Fool me 18 times shame on me.

 

[Pete Gas]

Tonight will prob determine what actions JR will take given the result. Maybe the most important game of the season

 

[Shady Machine]

Did you even watch the game last night? How can you even remotely blame Murray for that game last night? With Murray playing bad, that's a 6-0 or 7-0 game. They would have been slaughtered if Murray was playing as bad as you say he is.

He didn't blame Murray. Like I said earlier, I missed most of the 1st so maybe he was standing on his head, but he wasn't very good in the 2nd or 3rd. Not the reason we lost, but he's compounding the issues by not making a save on the Aho net drive and the TT goal. Hell, he almost let in a short side high glove goal when the shooter had like no room. He's just off his game right now and needs to be better.

 

[canadianguy77]

And let’s be honest about Sprong. He may be NHL ready, but dude is not putting up 20.

Has he even put himself in line for a clean look?

Huge, huge difference between him and even Sheary when he came up. Feel like the best route would be to honestly move him as he isn’t a necessity for this team and unless you slate him in our top six in the next two years, what is the point?

He's had some clean looks but has missed the net a few times too. And he plays a different game than Sheary...not even sure why you're comparing the two. He's also noticeably stronger than Sheary is, which is definitely something this team can use. Hopefully Sid will give him some pointers on board play that will help him.