How the Islanders leave Nassau early

[The Underboss]

The 35 million is reported in a NY Times article.

"An expert contacted by the Times estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum."


"Q. Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?"

"A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club's current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.
'

The main benefit in this move "is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it's in the huge increase they'll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats," said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country."

"The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DE5D9113FF935A15753C1A9649D8B63

Corporate support, especially in a financial capital such as NYC, is pretty much a constant. Yes those luxury boxes and club seats you see at Citifield and Yankee Stadium may look empty on a game by game basis but they are all bought and paid for by entities that view these items as the cost of doing business. Winning and losing have little to no impact on corporate sales. And as the article states the lions share of this uptick will come from corporate dollars not the guy wearing the Islander jersey sitting in the 300 section.

Hopefully that means Wang opens the wallet.

 

[lorwood]

Hopefully that means Wang opens the wallet.

Two points

My intention in starting this thread was not to open old arguments, but to discuss the possibility of expediting the move and accelerating the timeline on making these increased revenues a reality.

The ball is now squarely in Wang's court. The revenue loss argument is quickly running it's course. Hopefully both the NHL and the Barclay's group put pressure on Wang with the expectations of a quality on ice product.

 

[The Underboss]

Two points

My intention in starting this thread was not to open old arguments, but to discuss the possibility of expediting the move and accelerating the timeline on making these increased revenues a reality.

The ball is now squarely in Wang's court. The revenue loss argument is quickly running it's course. Hopefully both the NHL and the Barclay's group put pressure on Wang with the expectations of a quality on ice product.

Contract law is difficult. I would imagine Wang is going to try, but I don't think the Nassau Legislature will let the Isles go that easy. Not without a hefty payout an depending on that amount is Wang game?

If some sort of deal rises for the Coliseum site, maybe that will expedite things, but if nothing rises the County I am sure is in no rush to lose the Isles. The County NEEDS that tax revenue. They're going to be hurting big time after the Isles leave. I don't feel bad for the County, who I do feel bad for are the businesses who are definitely going to suffer.

 

[lorwood]

Contract law is difficult. I would imagine Wang is going to try, but I don't think the Nassau Legislature will let the Isles go that easy. Not without a hefty payout an depending on that amount is Wang game?

If some sort of deal rises for the Coliseum site, maybe that will expedite things, but if nothing rises the County I am sure is in no rush to lose the Isles. The County NEEDS that tax revenue. They're going to be hurting big time after the Isles leave. I don't feel bad for the County, who I do feel bad for are the businesses who are definitely going to suffer.

I have to agree although the recent news regarding Monti having a project that would be shovel ready this spring was a little encouraging.

I wonder if it could be argued that the lease buyout or penalty due for leaving early should be prorated down? I find it hard to believe that the Islanders would have to pay the same amount for leaving with say five years on the lease as opposed to one year remaining.

And if so does the increased revenue justify paying the fine/buyout?

 

[OlTimeHockey]

If you want to keep living in the past, more power to you, since everyone else is moving on.

Seriously? Are you among those who want to change the name, logo, colors, have a brand new team and all that BS? Living in the past is embracing a once storied franchise like one would embrace Hull in Chicago, Howe in Detroit, numerous legends in Montreal....a logo that should MEAN SOMETHING and your best shot is, :living in the past?"

Sorry, you don't throw away the past unless you're a victim of it. I'm proud of it. So we play in Brooklyn.....BROOKLYN GETS OUR TEAM'S PAST. Don't hide it, be proud of it.

I guess civilization is going downward if we're shoveling dirt over such history.


So do you still mind them being called the Islanders? Write an angry mail to the Lakers while you're at it.

 

[Dutch Frost]

who the hell wants them to leave early

lets savor our final 2 years in the building we have known for the last 40 years, where the last pro sports team won 4 straight championships

how can a "real" Isles fan want them to leave early

I want them gone tomorrow!!!! Are you kidding.. Screw that dump! Go savor the glory years on you tube. I want them in Brooklyn ASAP so Charles can start making $$ and hopefully spend money.

 

[Bert Marshall days]

I don't believe Brooklyn is part of the Isles current logo. However, Brooklyn and Queens need to be accommodated sooner or later. Why don't the Isles use the NASA satellite version of geographical Long Island.

Have to add Brooklyn to the logo when they move. Not the word but the land. To have land on a logo which doesn’t include where they play would look ridiculous.

(Extend the Island a little west on the current logo.)

 

[Bert Marshall days]

I want them gone tomorrow!!!! Are you kidding.. Screw that dump! Go savor the glory years on you tube. I want them in Brooklyn ASAP so Charles can start making $$ and hopefully spend money.

Exactly. I wanted them gone 10 years ago but will settle for ASAP. From someone who saw the glory days and before. Only in Brooklyn can new revenue and new players bring the chance to be competitive.

Charles, or whoever the owner will be in Brooklyn.

I read and re-read the Moving to Brooklyn thread when bored. Which BTW should be a sticky. Greatest news for the franchise since 1983.

 

[The Underboss]

Exactly. I wanted them gone 10 years ago but will settle for ASAP. From someone who saw the glory days and before. Only in Brooklyn can new revenue and new players bring the chance to be competitive.

Charles, or whoever the owner will be in Brooklyn.

I read and re-read the Moving to Brooklyn thread when bored. Which BTW should be a sticky. Greatest news for the franchise since 1983.

Send me the link, and I'll sticky it in the Master Sticky post.

 

[Bert Marshall days]

Send me the link, and I'll sticky it in the Master Sticky post.

Here ya go -


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1275047


During the lockout I must've read this whole thread 3 times. Each time I find something I missed. This is just classic stuff here and some of the best posts this board has ever produced. The excitement is off the charts.

Don't ever let anyone tell you this franchise is dead. 1000 posts here in 1 day. It's just dormant waiting for a valid reason to come back.

We now have one in Brooklyn.

Thanks Sal.

 

[Steve55]

Seriously? Are you among those who want to change the name, logo, colors, have a brand new team and all that BS? Living in the past is embracing a once storied franchise like one would embrace Hull in Chicago, Howe in Detroit, numerous legends in Montreal....a logo that should MEAN SOMETHING and your best shot is, :living in the past?"

Sorry, you don't throw away the past unless you're a victim of it. I'm proud of it. So we play in Brooklyn.....BROOKLYN GETS OUR TEAM'S PAST. Don't hide it, be proud of it.

I guess civilization is going downward if we're shoveling dirt over such history.


So do you still mind them being called the Islanders? Write an angry mail to the Lakers while you're at it.

Just add Brooklyn and Queens to the existing logo.

 

[The Underboss]

Here ya go -


http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1275047


During the lockout I must've read this whole thread 3 times. Each time I find something I missed. This is just classic stuff here and some of the best posts this board has ever produced. The excitement is off the charts.

Don't ever let anyone tell you this franchise is dead. 1000 posts here in 1 day. It's just dormant waiting for a valid reason to come back.

We now have one in Brooklyn.

Thanks Sal.

I will post all three links in the Master Links Thread up top.

 

[Strummergas]

Seriously? Are you among those who want to change the name, logo, colors, have a brand new team and all that BS? Living in the past is embracing a once storied franchise like one would embrace Hull in Chicago, Howe in Detroit, numerous legends in Montreal....a logo that should MEAN SOMETHING and your best shot is, :living in the past?"

Sorry, you don't throw away the past unless you're a victim of it. I'm proud of it. So we play in Brooklyn.....BROOKLYN GETS OUR TEAM'S PAST. Don't hide it, be proud of it.

I guess civilization is going downward if we're shoveling dirt over such history.


So do you still mind them being called the Islanders? Write an angry mail to the Lakers while you're at it.

I'm staunchly for keeping the team's past and tradition, but does tweaking the map of LI to include Brooklyn and Queens, while keeping the rest of the logo design, team name, and the color scheme in tact really do a disservice to that? If anything, I think it continues to embrace the past while looking towards the future. In my mind, at least...

 

[Islanderfan17]

I'm staunchly for keeping the team's past and tradition, but does tweaking the map of LI to include Brooklyn and Queens, while keeping the rest of the logo design, team name, and the color scheme in tact really do a disservice to that? If anything, I think it continues to embrace the past while looking towards the future. In my mind, at least...

I agree. Exactly what we should be doing too, honoring the past but welcoming the future.

 

[Isles Fan]

The 35 million is reported in a NY Times article.

"An expert contacted by the Times estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum."


"Q. Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?"

"A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club's current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.
'

The main benefit in this move "is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it's in the huge increase they'll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats," said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country."

"The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DE5D9113FF935A15753C1A9649D8B63

Corporate support, especially in a financial capital such as NYC, is pretty much a constant. Yes those luxury boxes and club seats you see at Citifield and Yankee Stadium may look empty on a game by game basis but they are all bought and paid for by entities that view these items as the cost of doing business. Winning and losing have little to no impact on corporate sales. And as the article states the lions share of this uptick will come from corporate dollars not the guy wearing the Islander jersey sitting in the 300 section.

So basing this on an unamed "expert" and a guy who works for the arena they are moving to? Kinda shaky if you ask me. The Unamed expert is no different than the "unamed locker room sources" we always hear about and I would expect nothing but the rose colored glasses outlook from the guy who is resposible to sell the boxes.

Truth is that the boxes and premium seats at Yankee and Citi are not sold. The Mets struggle to fill those boxes and seats is well chronicled and the Yankee issues came more to light this past season when the stadium was half full for the afternoon playoff game. The prices for seats inside the "moat" at Yankee staduim have been written about and discussed on talk raido since the place opened. Fact is they cannot sell them to anyone cause they are too high priced.

The only comparison here would be MSG and it's location, history and ability to draw top name entertainment, outside the sporting world, make it an easy sell. Combine that with an owner who spends and well you know the rest.

As I have said before, time will tell how this whole thing pans out. IMO five years from now this board will be lamenting the move and the owner, granted it's still Wang, when they are still trash living in a palace. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it because at the end of the day I am an Islanders fan and want my team to win and be respectable in the league.

 

[OlTimeHockey]

So basing this on an unamed "expert" and a guy who works for the arena they are moving to? Kinda shaky if you ask me. The Unamed expert is no different than the "unamed locker room sources" we always hear about and I would expect nothing but the rose colored glasses outlook from the guy who is resposible to sell the boxes.

Truth is that the boxes and premium seats at Yankee and Citi are not sold. The Mets struggle to fill those boxes and seats is well chronicled and the Yankee issues came more to light this past season when the stadium was half full for the afternoon playoff game. The prices for seats inside the "moat" at Yankee staduim have been written about and discussed on talk raido since the place opened. Fact is they cannot sell them to anyone cause they are too high priced.

The only comparison here would be MSG and it's location, history and ability to draw top name entertainment, outside the sporting world, make it an easy sell. Combine that with an owner who spends and well you know the rest.

As I have said before, time will tell how this whole thing pans out. IMO five years from now this board will be lamenting the move and the owner, granted it's still Wang, when they are still trash living in a palace. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it because at the end of the day I am an Islanders fan and want my team to win and be respectable in the league.

unnamed expert calls himself "Brecklund."

 

[lorwood]

So basing this on an unamed "expert" and a guy who works for the arena they are moving to? Kinda shaky if you ask me. The Unamed expert is no different than the "unamed locker room sources" we always hear about and I would expect nothing but the rose colored glasses outlook from the guy who is resposible to sell the boxes.

Truth is that the boxes and premium seats at Yankee and Citi are not sold. The Mets struggle to fill those boxes and seats is well chronicled and the Yankee issues came more to light this past season when the stadium was half full for the afternoon playoff game. The prices for seats inside the "moat" at Yankee staduim have been written about and discussed on talk raido since the place opened. Fact is they cannot sell them to anyone cause they are too high priced.

The only comparison here would be MSG and it's location, history and ability to draw top name entertainment, outside the sporting world, make it an easy sell. Combine that with an owner who spends and well you know the rest.

As I have said before, time will tell how this whole thing pans out. IMO five years from now this board will be lamenting the move and the owner, granted it's still Wang, when they are still trash living in a palace. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it because at the end of the day I am an Islanders fan and want my team to win and be respectable in the league.

Common sense usually trumps conspiracy theories.

There is a reason that Wang pulled the trigger and it was not running out of patience with Nassau.

Common sense dictates that it was the numbers that moved Wang to a less than ideal NHL arena in an area he never considered until after the arena was built.

Can Wang still screw this up by staying at the cap floor?

Of course, but once again why would he once he has the ability to turn a profit?

Unless of course he sells.

Which would be fine by most, myself included.

FYI Arthur Staple during yesterdays live chat on Newsday.com confirmed the anticipated new revenues

 

[Bert Marshall days]

So basing this on an unamed "expert" and a guy who works for the arena they are moving to? Kinda shaky if you ask me. The Unamed expert is no different than the "unamed locker room sources" we always hear about and I would expect nothing but the rose colored glasses outlook from the guy who is resposible to sell the boxes.

Truth is that the boxes and premium seats at Yankee and Citi are not sold. The Mets struggle to fill those boxes and seats is well chronicled and the Yankee issues came more to light this past season when the stadium was half full for the afternoon playoff game. The prices for seats inside the "moat" at Yankee staduim have been written about and discussed on talk raido since the place opened. Fact is they cannot sell them to anyone cause they are too high priced.

The only comparison here would be MSG and it's location, history and ability to draw top name entertainment, outside the sporting world, make it an easy sell. Combine that with an owner who spends and well you know the rest.

As I have said before, time will tell how this whole thing pans out. IMO five years from now this board will be lamenting the move and the owner, granted it's still Wang, when they are still trash living in a palace. If I am wrong I will be the first to admit it because at the end of the day I am an Islanders fan and want my team to win and be respectable in the league.

Why the hell would the move be lamented in 5 years? You'd rather they'd gone to Seattle or Quebec and be gone locally altogether?

Yup, the NY Times contacts bogus "experts" and the CEO of the company that manages corporate tix for many arenas in the USA including Barclay's because they have no clue about future revenue forecasting yet you do.

Things will get much better in Brooklyn. More revenue = better players. Sure can't get any worse than it's been.

 

[Bossyfan71]

I'm looking forward to the move to Brooklyn and I'll tell you why. I have never been to a game at Nassau because of the lack of public transportation to NVMC. I live in the Bronx. I don't own a car, so I have to take a subway to the LIRR to a bus to get to the arena. That's almost a 2 hr trip and about 30.00 + before I even get to the arena. That's money I could be using for a beer (I keed, I keed).

When I go to watch the Isles play, I go to The Rock or to the Garden. As a visitor, you really can't cheer your team unless you want a beer bath and that's pretty sad, but that's a different story for a different thread. I would like to watch my team play as the home team for once and hang out with Islander fans.

Yes, I am a bit sad that the Isles are leaving LI. I grew up watching Bossy, Trots, Smith, LaFontaine, Pilon, Ziggy play in LI. That's history and memories, but like a lot of you have already mentioned, Wang tried to keep them on LI and Nassau said no more than once, so I will not be shedding a tear when they leave. I would love to see where Hempstead will generate the revenue that will be going to Brooklyn.

As much as I like new buildings, some don't do it for me. I prefer old Yankee Stadium to the new one, yet I prefer Citi to Shea. I have yet to visit Barclays, but from I hear of it, it's a great arena.

So, I am hoping they can be in Brooklyn by next year. I will only have to take 1 train to get there from the Bronx. Yes, it's a 45 min train ride, but at least it's 1 train and I cross a street and I'm there.

I'm hoping the Islanders do add Brooklyn and Queens to the logo, but just because we are moving to Brooklyn doesn't mean they forget the past. I do not think they will either.

I'm sorry Lost is sad that the Isles are leaving. My only advice to you is to just deal with it and support the team like I and everyone else will once the move takes place.

Mike

 

[Isles Fan]

Things will get much better in Brooklyn. More revenue = better players.

And that is the point I am disputing. We have nothing to base your statement on. Ownership nor management has come out and said that any additional revenues will be put back into the team and based on our owners history, little faith they will.

Truth is that and cash injection from the excitment of a move is short lived if the team still sucks. Plus, how many of those shiny new seats are you going to sell if the team is bad? People don't want to come see a bad product.

A great case in point is the Blackhawks. From 02 to 07-08 they sucked. Why, cause Bill Wirtz didn't care, much like Wang. Lo and behold, they played in a state of the art arena at the United Center, that they could not fill if they gave the tickets away. Based on the logic here, that fact the played in a shiny arena should have made them better. Wirtz dies, his kid takes over, strikes a TV deal, pours that money back into the team, team imporves, people come back, more revenue, better players and bingo a Stanley Cup.

My point is that moving to Brooklyn does nothing but change their address. I understand the "forecasts" but as someone who does a lot of forecasting for a living, I can tell you forecasts are nothing more than best guesstimates. For the forecast to pan out you have to have favorable conditions. Moving into an arena not built for your sport, in fact being shoe horned into that arena which happens to lie in the heart of your biggest rivalry, with bad ownership and a bad team are not favorable conditions. Could it mean better things, sure, but the move alone will not do it.

 

[Bert Marshall days]

And that is the point I am disputing. We have nothing to base your statement on. Ownership nor management has come out and said that any additional revenues will be put back into the team and based on our owners history, little faith they will.

Truth is that and cash injection from the excitment of a move is short lived if the team still sucks. Plus, how many of those shiny new seats are you going to sell if the team is bad? People don't want to come see a bad product.

A great case in point is the Blackhawks. From 02 to 07-08 they sucked. Why, cause Bill Wirtz didn't care, much like Wang. Lo and behold, they played in a state of the art arena at the United Center, that they could not fill if they gave the tickets away. Based on the logic here, that fact the played in a shiny arena should have made them better. Wirtz dies, his kid takes over, strikes a TV deal, pours that money back into the team, team imporves, people come back, more revenue, better players and bingo a Stanley Cup.

My point is that moving to Brooklyn does nothing but change their address. I understand the "forecasts" but as someone who does a lot of forecasting for a living, I can tell you forecasts are nothing more than best guesstimates. For the forecast to pan out you have to have favorable conditions. Moving into an arena not built for your sport, in fact being shoe horned into that arena which happens to lie in the heart of your biggest rivalry, with bad ownership and a bad team are not favorable conditions. Could it mean better things, sure, but the move alone will not do it.

It's already been mentioned, and displayed, you just choose not to see it. We do have something to base my statement on, even moreso with more revenue coming. Wang spent in 2001,2002 on Yashin, Peca, Osgood (w/out additional revenue) on the hopes a LI real estate deal would emerge. Snow said NYI is a low revenue team and if they ever received more revenue he has the green light to spend. Wirtz never did that.

Cash injection from the move offers hope and the chance to compete. Very different from the last 20 years. If management screws it up like the Leafs that's a separate issue. The seats filled aren't as important as the luxury suites and club seating which corporate support will likely pay win or lose ala NYR, Flyers, Leafs etc as well as lower bowl seats. Doesn't matter if the arena wasn't built for hockey - if the owner sees enough revenue/profit that's all that matters. The fact it's close to NYR means nothing - look how well the Nets are doing. Many people priced out of NYR games will go to NYI ones in Brooklyn and Brooklyn offers more access to new fans as well as keeping the diehard remaining ones.

You're also stuck on Wang still owning NYI post move and stuck in the recent past. Wang wanted LI real estate and probably not much with Brooklyn. IMO look for Wang to sell within a year or two of moving to Brooklyn. He knows Brooklyn is Ratner's toy not his and when he makes some money back he'll sell and be remembered for keeping NYI local. If he stays there's no way Ratner would let him run the franchise on the cheap. The mindset and culture of no revenue on LI and no money spent by ownership and small market mentality will change. Conditions like media, accountability and new ownership IMO will dictate it. Otherwise, there's not much point.

They're 2 separate issues here. One is the move which you said would be lamented. A move which kept NYI local. That is separate and different from ownership/management results and the two shouldn't be confused/intertwined.

Do tell us how your vast forecasting experience relates to sports revenue in particularly corporate tix that was mentioned by the NY Times. Nevermind, it's not really relevant.

 

[Isles Fan]

It's already been mentioned, and displayed, you just choose not to see it. We do have something to base my statement on, even moreso with more revenue coming. Wang spent in 2001,2002 on Yashin, Peca, Osgood (w/out additional revenue) on the hopes a LI real estate deal would emerge. Snow said NYI is a low revenue team and if they ever received more revenue he has the green light to spend. Wirtz never did that.

Cash injection from the move offers hope and the chance to compete. Very different from the last 20 years. If management screws it up like the Leafs that's a separate issue. The seats filled aren't as important as the luxury suites and club seating which corporate support will likely pay win or lose ala NYR, Flyers, Leafs etc as well as lower bowl seats. Doesn't matter if the arena wasn't built for hockey - if the owner sees enough revenue/profit that's all that matters. The fact it's close to NYR means nothing - look how well the Nets are doing. Many people priced out of NYR games will go to NYI ones in Brooklyn and Brooklyn offers more access to new fans as well as keeping the diehard remaining ones.

You're also stuck on Wang still owning NYI post move and stuck in the recent past. Wang wanted LI real estate and probably not much with Brooklyn. IMO look for Wang to sell within a year or two of moving to Brooklyn. He knows Brooklyn is Ratner's toy not his and when he makes some money back he'll sell and be remembered for keeping NYI local. If he stays there's no way Ratner would let him run the franchise on the cheap. The mindset and culture of no revenue on LI and no money spent by ownership and small market mentality will change. Conditions like media, accountability and new ownership IMO will dictate it. Otherwise, there's not much point.

They're 2 separate issues here. One is the move which you said would be lamented. A move which kept NYI local. That is separate and different from ownership/management results and the two shouldn't be confused/intertwined.

Do tell us how your vast forecasting experience relates to sports revenue in particularly corporate tix that was mentioned by the NY Times. Nevermind, it's not really relevant.

I am so glad to hear you are so knowledgable on the future plans of Mr. Wang and Mr. Ratner and even more greatful you know Ratner will not let Wang run the team on the cheap.

I will agree Wang spent on Peca and Yahsin and Osgood and the building rocked, I know I was there, had season tickets, never missed a game. However after that initial cash infusion what happened? Never even came close to that first year he owned the team. Team played worse, people stopped coming. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping. I will also agree that the move does provide hope, but I hope for lots of things that never happen, I am sure you do too.

You cannot compare the local repsonse to the Nets to the Isles. With the Nets, they moved to an area steep in basketball history. Some of the best playground basketball players of all time come from Brooklyn. The was a huge article about it in SI a few months back. It's not a hockey hot bed and if you think for a second that a fan of the NYR is going to take season tix to the NYI just because they are cheaper, I have bridge to sell you. Might they go to a game or two? Sure but it is not going to offset the fan from LI that doesnt want to schlep in Brooklyn to watch a bad team. I said the move would be lamented when the team still sucks.

I know you are happy they ended up in Brooklyn because you have been a proponet of it since the idea first surfaced here. Personally I think you are glad because it makes getting to games easier for you.

As for my forecasting abilities, whether I have experience in sports revenue or not doesn't matter. While I care not to disclose to you my background or where I ply my trade, it doesn't matter if it is sports revenue, corporate revenue or the weather. Forecasts are not scientific. They are based on data usully culled from past performance applied to potential future earnings. Regardless it's a crap shoot. Just think back to the last time the weatheran forecated a foot of snow and not a flake fell. They had good data, but the consitions just were not favorable.

Oh BTW, the NY Times, while a good daily paper, has it's warts too.

 

[Bert Marshall days]

I am so glad to hear you are so knowledgable on the future plans of Mr. Wang and Mr. Ratner and even more greatful you know Ratner will not let Wang run the team on the cheap.

I will agree Wang spent on Peca and Yahsin and Osgood and the building rocked, I know I was there, had season tickets, never missed a game. However after that initial cash infusion what happened? Never even came close to that first year he owned the team. Team played worse, people stopped coming. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping. I will also agree that the move does provide hope, but I hope for lots of things that never happen, I am sure you do too.

You cannot compare the local repsonse to the Nets to the Isles. With the Nets, they moved to an area steep in basketball history. Some of the best playground basketball players of all time come from Brooklyn. The was a huge article about it in SI a few months back. It's not a hockey hot bed and if you think for a second that a fan of the NYR is going to take season tix to the NYI just because they are cheaper, I have bridge to sell you. Might they go to a game or two? Sure but it is not going to offset the fan from LI that doesnt want to schlep in Brooklyn to watch a bad team. I said the move would be lamented when the team still sucks.

I know you are happy they ended up in Brooklyn because you have been a proponet of it since the idea first surfaced here. Personally I think you are glad because it makes getting to games easier for you.

As for my forecasting abilities, whether I have experience in sports revenue or not doesn't matter. While I care not to disclose to you my background or where I ply my trade, it doesn't matter if it is sports revenue, corporate revenue or the weather. Forecasts are not scientific. They are based on data usully culled from past performance applied to potential future earnings. Regardless it's a crap shoot. Just think back to the last time the weatheran forecated a foot of snow and not a flake fell. They had good data, but the consitions just were not favorable.

Oh BTW, the NY Times, while a good daily paper, has it's warts too.

I'm glad you're glad. I predicted the Brooklyn move half a year before it happened. I even came close to the announcement date of it prediction. What have you shown? You've only shown to hate Wang, be bitter and poo poo the idea of the Brooklyn move and frankly it's sour grapes you should be taking up with your nassau neighbors and politicians as they had their chance and blew it. Better get used to it as the Brooklyn deal is done and NYI is not going back to "LI" for at least 25 years and probably never.

What happened after Yashin,Peca,Osgood? LI screwed Wang, that's what. What was supposed to happen? I don't blame him at all for not spending with the lowest revenues in the league and losing money. No LI support = no revenue, no good players, nobody goes to games. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping.

Actually, NYI already has a bigger fan base as opposed to what the Nets had from NJ. LIers only went to NYI games on weekends. Brooklyn will now get the LI weekend crowd plus the weeknight crowd with easy train access to workers from NYC and close outskirts plus corporate support. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping.

You look pretty silly talking about Brooklyn attendance and ignoring the growth potential while Uniondale constantly had the worst or close to worst attendance in the NHL. Anything said about the move being lamented is ridiculous. Sucking due to ownership/management is different.

Personally, I wanted Queens as I thought that would be best for the franchise and easier for the LI fan base because that's the kind of guy I am. Brooklyn became best when Queens wasn't an option. The dumbest thing mentioned on this board is when people like you think non LI residents wanted Brooklyn/Queens because it's closer and easier to get to games while ignoring the obvious benefits and advanteges of the city over the suburbs for pro sports. It's why LI has lost NYI, Nets, Dragons, Arrows, and a few other pro teams. You're blind to what's gone on for many years. I've shlepped to NVMC from Westchester since 1972 and watched bad teams and would gladly do it again if they stayed and were worth it and had hope. Let's see how LIers do with the same to Brooklyn that you're already whining about.

The less you say about the forecasting and the NY Times the better as is gotten comical at this point.

See ya in BROOKLYN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MJF]

I'm glad you're glad. I predicted the Brooklyn move half a year before it happened. I even came close to the announcement date of it prediction. What have you shown? You've only shown to hate Wang, be bitter and poo poo the idea of the Brooklyn move and frankly it's sour grapes you should be taking up with your nassau neighbors and politicians as they had their chance and blew it. Better get used to it as the Brooklyn deal is done and NYI is not going back to "LI" for at least 25 years and probably never.

What happened after Yashin,Peca,Osgood? LI screwed Wang, that's what. What was supposed to happen? I don't blame him at all for not spending with the lowest revenues in the league and losing money. No LI support = no revenue, no good players, nobody goes to games. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping.
Actually, NYI already has a bigger fan base as opposed to what the Nets had from NJ. LIers only went to NYI games on weekends. Brooklyn will now get the LI weekend crowd plus the weeknight crowd with easy train access to workers from NYC and close outskirts plus corporate support. It is a simple fact you seem to have trouble grasping.

You look pretty silly talking about Brooklyn attendance and ignoring the growth potential while Uniondale constantly had the worst or close to worst attendance in the NHL. Anything said about the move being lamented is ridiculous. Sucking due to ownership/management is different.

Personally, I wanted Queens as I thought that would be best for the franchise and easier for the LI fan base because that's the kind of guy I am. Brooklyn became best when Queens wasn't an option. The dumbest thing mentioned on this board is when people like you think non LI residents wanted Brooklyn/Queens because it's closer and easier to get to games while ignoring the obvious benefits and advanteges of the city over the suburbs for pro sports. It's why LI has lost NYI, Nets, Dragons, Arrows, and a few other pro teams. You're blind to what's gone on for many years. I've shlepped to NVMC from Westchester since 1972 and watched bad teams and would gladly do it again if they stayed and were worth it and had hope. Let's see how LIers do with the same to Brooklyn that you're already whining about.

The less you say about the forecasting and the NY Times the better as is gotten comical at this point.

See ya in BROOKLYN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wang did a good job of screwing up the franchise himself at that point. Public relations blunder after PR blunder. The Yashin contract was bad, DiPietro's even worse. Firing Peter Laviolette, the Neil Smith fiasco, the bad will with some of the alumni, the coaching carousel...feel free to add anything I left out.

Its not like Wang seized the momentum of a playoff run and gave the fans or the newspapers a reason to keep coming back to the Coliseum.


I agree with you that there is potential revenue streams in Brooklyn that might not be available at the Coliseum. But as Isles Fan said up-thread, the Mets and Yankees have trouble selling the premium seats and luxury boxes. I'm just not convince Brooklyn is going to be the magic pill that cures the Islanders.

BTW, glad you were correct predicting the move to Brooklyn. Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.

 

[Bert Marshall days]

Wang did a good job of screwing up the franchise himself at that point. Public relations blunder after PR blunder. The Yashin contract was bad, DiPietro's even worse. Firing Peter Laviolette, the Neil Smith fiasco, the bad will with some of the alumni, the coaching carousel...feel free to add anything I left out.

Its not like Wang seized the momentum of a playoff run and gave the fans or the newspapers a reason to keep coming back to the Coliseum.


I agree with you that there is potential revenue streams in Brooklyn that might not be available at the Coliseum. But as Isles Fan said up-thread, the Mets and Yankees have trouble selling the premium seats and luxury boxes. I'm just not convince Brooklyn is going to be the magic pill that cures the Islanders.

BTW, glad you were correct predicting the move to Brooklyn. Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.

PR blunders and not spending due to lack of revenue are 2 different things. Hopefully he's learned from the former.

Mets/Yankees luxury boxes cost much more than NYI's will and isn't a valid comparison.

You spent many posts not convinced that Brooklyn and a LI arena had different corporate support levels so pardon me if I don't put much stock in your Brooklyn non magic pill theory.

Stating a fact to counterpoint a wiseguy's insinuation isn't patting myself on the back. Not suprised you can't tell the difference.