Speculation: How much damage has the Alfredsson fiasco done to the Sens reputation?

[HavlatMach9]

I found it interesting that if Alfie didn't reach 70 games and points in the 08-09 season, he'd have been paid 3.8m per for 3 years. Instead, the team re-did his contract and gave him 9m, 7m, and 4.5m, with a lot of signing bonuses. I kinda see why Melnyk wasn't enthused about his 8m request before the past season haha.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

I think the explanation is pretty simple: they were trying to fit both Alfie and another good player (Clarkson or Ryan) under their internal cap. Once they saw the possibility of Alf not signing they decided that they'd rather just give Alf what he wanted, possibly at the expense of signing the other player. But once Alf signed with Detroit and Clarkson was gone too it was a no-brainer to do the Ryan deal.

I don't think anybody's necessarily lying. It's possible to reconcile all sides of this story.

That makes sense to you? If that is true I am seriously concerned about the sanity of Eugene Melnyk. If they weren't honoring a deal they had made with Alfie to compensate him for the previous year and actually thought the best move for the organization was to give 41 year old Daniel Alfredsson a one year $7 million deal on a team that has a $50 million budget for salaries, then I am very fearful for the teams future.

 

[pepty]

When he originally signed that last contract, he knew there was a possibility he might still be around to play that last year at one million. If he wasn't happy with the concept of potentially paying for that amount, he shouldn't have agreed to tack on that final year, and he certainly shouldn't have been looking to be overpaid this season to compensate for last year.

But if he wasn't pleased with that last contract, he had every right not to sign it. And he shouldn't have.

He agreed to tack it on at the request of the team and to help them out with the cap hit.

As it happens he shouldn't have signed it when you see what went down, and though this sort of cap circumvention is no longer possible, I would expect that in the future not so many players are going to trust this organization the next time they ask for help.

When it was clear the team was struggling financially when Alfie deferred salary it was used to bring in a player.Now with the internal cap and all the casino and other fuss, you dont know if the saved money is going to bring in another player or to fund one of Eugene's ventures.

It is one thing to help out the team which is what Alfie has done throughout his career despite all the revisionist history we're getting now, its another to be taken for a chump.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Karlsson isn't a mediocre player...and he is already locked up long term.

 

[Stylizer1]

I find it funny that at no point Management didn't say to Alfie once you retire we can set you up with a position in the organization for x amount of money for like the next 10 years to compensate for your lower salary. Doesn't count against the cap then.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

I find it funny that at no point Management didn't say to Alfie once you retire we can set you up with a position in the organization for x amount of money for like the next 10 years to compensate for your lower salary. Doesn't count against the cap then.

This is the kind of thing that this fiasco will prevent from ever happening. Everything is going to have to be up front and clearly defined in contracts leaving nothing up for debate.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Isn't that expressly against the CBA?

 

[BankStreetParade]

He agreed to tack it on at the request of the team and to help them out with the cap hit.

As it happens he shouldn't have signed it when you see what went down, and though this sort of cap circumvention is no longer possible, I would expect that in the future not so many players are going to trust this organization the next time they ask for help.

When it was clear the team was struggling financially when Alfie deferred salary it was used to bring in a player.Now with the internal cap and all the casino and other fuss, you dont know if the saved money is going to bring in another player or to fund one of Eugene's ventures.

It is one thing to help out the team which is what Alfie has done throughout his career despite all the revisionist history we're getting now, its another to be taken for a chump.

They put almost $22 million in his pocket in 3 years of that contract. Who exactly was he helping except himself? He got 95% of his money before the lockout where a lot of his teammates lost millions of dollars from the work stoppage. The man wasn't even sure he wanted to play last year or this year. But now the team is supposed to continue lining his pockets with money well above league average for a player like him? In the name of loyalty? Or paying him for past accomplishments? This team should be in the business of winning hockey games not running retirement funds.

 

[blahblah3]

They put almost $22 million in his pocket in 3 years of that contract. Who exactly was he helping except himself? He got 95% of his money before the lockout where a lot of his teammates lost millions of dollars from the work stoppage. The man wasn't even sure he wanted to play last year or this year. But now the team is supposed to continue lining his pockets with money well above league average for a player like him? In the name of loyalty? Or paying him for past accomplishments? This team should be in the business of winning hockey games not running retirement funds.

That is a good point, if it is true.

I think he would have been better off saving us the BS and just came out from the beginning and say that it was more about winning the cup before he retires, and that Ottawa isn't likely going to be the place to do it next year at least. And stuck to that story.

 

[The Fuhr*]

They put almost $22 million in his pocket in 3 years of that contract. Who exactly was he helping except himself? He got 95% of his money before the lockout where a lot of his teammates lost millions of dollars from the work stoppage. The man wasn't even sure he wanted to play last year or this year. But now the team is supposed to continue lining his pockets with money well above league average for a player like him? In the name of loyalty? Or paying him for past accomplishments? This team should be in the business of winning hockey games not running retirement funds.

According to the players on this team he was the reason the team kept it together. His leadership calmed everyone down... I read quotes from Turris to Spezza about Alfredsson kept the team together when all the injuries his...

I think there is a very real possibility the loss of Alfie really hurts this team this year when the team needs to go through adversity.

Should the Sens miss the playoffs, it begins with letting Alfie walk to save money

 

[HavlatMach9]

I think there is a very real possibility the loss of Alfie really hurts this team this year when the team needs to go through adversity.

Our team has been pesky and relied on every member to pitch in, with leadership from players like Alfie/Phillips/Gonchar etc.

But such is life and your team new teams moves on and figures things out for themselves.

 

[The Fuhr*]

But such is life and your team new teams moves on and figures things out for themselves.

Yep... But it's not a risk the Sens should be making right now

- Dont have a 2014 first
- if the team misses the playoffs I can see Ryan and Spezza not re-signing next summer... Puts the team in a poor situation heading into 14-15... Since Spezza and Ryan can walk at seasons end

Think going cheap and replacing Gonchar with Corvo could hurt the same way too.

Ownership having no money cost the team important vet leadership

 

[HavlatMach9]

Ideally we could have spent more and kept Gonchar/Alfie, added Ryan and MacArther and we'd have been contenders.

But because we're budget constrained, the management believes the team with MacArthur/Ryan/Corvo is better than Alfie/Gonchar and if they miss the playoffs, I think the blame goes Murray for not getting the right players as opposed to letting Alfie go.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

They put almost $22 million in his pocket in 3 years of that contract. Who exactly was he helping except himself? He got 95% of his money before the lockout where a lot of his teammates lost millions of dollars from the work stoppage. The man wasn't even sure he wanted to play last year or this year. But now the team is supposed to continue lining his pockets with money well above league average for a player like him? In the name of loyalty? Or paying him for past accomplishments? This team should be in the business of winning hockey games not running retirement funds.

And last year the Sens paid him $585,366. Sure, that extra year at $1 mlllion was something the Sens asked for even though both sides thought he would retire after the third season, and yes the Sens did tell Alfie they would makeup the low pay this past season on his next contract but do the Sens have to do what they say they would? Absolutely not. They're completely within their rights to follow the Danny Heatley and Alexei Yashin Book on Honor and we all know how well respected in this city and around the NHL those players are.

 

[HavlatMach9]

And last year the Sens paid him $585,366. Sure, that extra year at $1 mlllion was something the Sens asked for even though both sides thought he would retire after the third season, and yes the Sens did tell Alfie they would makeup the low pay this past season on his next contract but do the Sens have to do what they say they would? Absolutely not. They're completely within their rights to follow the Danny Heatley and Alexei Yashin Book on Honor and we all know how well respected in this city and around the NHL those players are.

If you don't include that year, his caphit would have been 6.8m dollars. The Sens would have just let him risk getting 3.8m a year (11.4m total) but worked with Alfie to give him almost 10m more in the same time-frame, a lot of that was very front loaded and with signing bonuses (and remember it was for an aging player).

His options were, risk 3.5m, redo contract and take less money and fit into our cap, or take more money but add a year to fit into our cap. Although I'm not entirely certain how much more information I'm missing.

In those 4 years of his contract, he put up
GP70 P71 for $9m
GP54 P31 for $7m
GP75 P59 for $4.5
GP47 P26 for $1m

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

If you don't include that year, his caphit would have been 6.8m dollars. The Sens would have just let him risk getting 3.8m a year (11.4m total) but worked with Alfie to give him almost 10m more in the same time-frame, a lot of that was very front loaded and with signing bonuses (and remember it was for an aging player).

His options were, risk 3.5m, redo contract and take less money and fit into our cap, or take more money but add a year to fit into our cap

The Sens were the ones avoiding the risk, all Alfie had to do to become a UFA was play 70 games or get 70 points. He had hit 70+ points each of the previous 7 seasons. The Sens did him no favors, he would of gotten at least the same money if not more as an UFA.

 

[HavlatMach9]

The Sens were the ones avoiding the risk, all Alfie had to do to become a UFA was play 70 games or get 70 points. He had hit 70+ points each of the previous 7 seasons. The Sens did him no favors, he would of gotten at least the same money if not more as an UFA.

Remember, at that point in time, the Melnyk had no problem spending, and if he hit UFA, Alfie would have gotten a similar contract as the the one he was given. The was a significant risk was for Alfie imo who even though he could score, would he be able to play enough games to get the required points?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

If you don't include that year, his caphit would have been 6.8m dollars. The Sens would have just let him risk getting 3.8m a year (11.4m total) but worked with Alfie to give him almost 10m more in the same time-frame, a lot of that was very front loaded and with signing bonuses (and remember it was for an aging player).

His options were, risk 3.5m, redo contract and take less money and fit into our cap, or take more money but add a year to fit into our cap. Although I'm not entirely certain how much more information I'm missing.

In those 4 years of his contract, he put up
GP70 P71 for $9m
GP54 P31 for $7m
GP75 P59 for $4.5
GP47 P26 for $1m

The deal is complicated, but however Alfie earned $7 million in each of the first two years, $4.5 million in the third and $1 million in the fourth. Of that total, $8.5 million is in signing bonuses — $3 million in each of the first two years and $2.5 million in the third year.

The contract was cushioned by a $2.09-million payment he got in July '09 for not exercising his 2009-10 option, which would have made him a free agent. The Sens were well aware Alfie would have gotten as much or more on the open market.

IMO the 4th year of the contract was added at the request of the Sens, as Alfie claims, to help offset what would have been a $6.4M cap hit over 3 years.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Remember, at that point in time, the Melnyk had no problem spending, and if he hit UFA, Alfie would have gotten a similar contract as the the one he was given. The was a significant risk was for Alfie imo who even though he could score, would he be able to play enough games to get the required points?

It doesn't matter how much he is willing to spend, their is a salary cap and at that point Melnyk was actually trying to win, paying more than he had to for Alfredsson meant potentially weakening the team elsewhere. It's much more difficult to negotiate a deal with a player when other teams are involved, it can drive up their price and demands significantly. Alfredsson averaged 75 games per season the previous 7 years so combined with the 7 straight years of 70+ points the risk of Alfie hitting one of those goals and becoming a UFA was huge.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Ideally we could have spent more and kept Gonchar/Alfie, added Ryan and MacArther and we'd have been contenders.

But because we're budget constrained, the management believes the team with MacArthur/Ryan/Corvo is better than Alfie/Gonchar and if they miss the playoffs, I think the blame goes Murray for not getting the right players as opposed to letting Alfie go.

I love all of this speculation and blame to go around before the season has even started. Reality is, we're a better team than we were before Alfredsson and Gonchar left. We are more youthful now and we still have veteran leadership, which includes Spezza, Karlsson, Neil, Phillips.

MacLean held this team together last season. He took a team that was not going to produce as much offense as it had the season before and turned it into a defensive transition team that was able to survive through a lot of 1 goal games. Our goalie coaches also helped, by taking our talented goaltenders and making them consistent. Ottawa will contend this season.

 

[TheSenator]

To answer the original question as briefly as possible; far less than the Melnyk fiasco.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I love all of this speculation and blame to go around before the season has even started. Reality is, we're a better team than we were before Alfredsson and Gonchar left. We are more youthful now and we still have veteran leadership, which includes Spezza, Karlsson, Neil, Phillips.

MacLean held this team together last season. He took a team that was not going to produce as much offense as it had the season before and turned it into a defensive transition team that was able to survive through a lot of 1 goal games. Our goalie coaches also helped, by taking our talented goaltenders and making them consistent. Ottawa will contend this season.

On paper maybe, but an awful lot has to go right this season for the Sens to actually show they are a better team.

MacLean gave Alfie significant amount of credit for how last year turned out.

 

[HavlatMach9]

The deal is complicated, but however Alfie earned $7 million in each of the first two years, $4.5 million in the third and $1 million in the fourth. Of that total, $8.5 million is in signing bonuses — $3 million in each of the first two years and $2.5 million in the third year.

The was contract is cushioned by a $2.09-million payment he got in July '09 for not exercising his 2009-10 option, which could have made him a free agent. The Sens were well aware Alfie would have gotten as much or more on the open market.

Right, everything was negotiated up and decided when the 08-9 season started, a year before he could have gone to UFA. That $2.09m went to his first year (so 9m) and the rest as you say. Much more than the 20m w/ huge signing bonuses as an aging player? Alfie had to get out of that contract b/c 3.8m was risky.

It doesn't matter how much he is willing to spend, their is a salary cap and at that point Melnyk was actually trying to win, paying more than he had to for Alfredsson meant potentially weakening the team elsewhere. It's much more difficult to negotiate a deal with a player when other teams are involved, it can drive up their price and demands significantly. Alfredsson averaged 75 games per season the previous 7 years so combined with the 7 straight years of 70+ points the risk of Alfie hitting one of those goals and becoming a UFA was huge.

He'd get a similar deal though, every team would have put a similar kind of stray year in that contract, while he'd have earned the same money. From the Sens pov they took apart the contract and treated him as a UFA. And if he hit UFA status, chances are he would have been signed before the summer came (because Melnyk was able to pay money and add rediculous bonuses then), with similar caphit

Reality is, we're a better team than we were before Alfredsson and Gonchar left.

Right I believe this too, but don't want to count the chickens before they hatch. I was merely commenting that the Sens moved in a different direction.

 

[TheSenator]

Ideally we could have spent more and kept Gonchar/Alfie, added Ryan and MacArther and we'd have been contenders.

But because we're budget constrained, the management believes the team with MacArthur/Ryan/Corvo is better than Alfie/Gonchar and if they miss the playoffs, I think the blame goes Murray for not getting the right players as opposed to letting Alfie go.

That basically sums up the reason for my animosity towards the organization right now. I understand Melnyk's pockets aren't as deep as they used to be, but if you can't afford a hockey team you shouldn't own one.

And I doubt Murray will be the one shouldering the blame if things go awry. How can you point the finger at a guy who has to build a roster with 30% less cash then the other guys have...?

 

[The Fuhr*]

On paper maybe, but an awful lot has to go right this season for the Sens to actually show they are a better team.

MacLean gave Alfie significant amount of credit for how last year turned out.

So did the players... It sounds from everyone involved with the team Alfie was our MVP