Speculation: How much damage has the Alfredsson fiasco done to the Sens reputation?

[pepty]

I dont know if this will keep players from coming here as UFA's, but it certainly should make any player think twice about any "home town discount".

Alfie played for under market value virtually the whole time he was here and even deferred salary so that the team could bring on a player for the playoffs.

When the team was nearly bankrupt and though all the lean times, he chose to stay rather than going elsewhere for more money. The posts here about Alfie being a greedy money grubber are absurd.

Alfie added the extra year on his contract at the teams request. Then when he wanted to come back he had the option of playing for the million or retire. He made less than some of the rookies on the team and yetnot only was he the best player on the team but Maclean and others credit him with holding things together while the other stars fell to injury.

Just read what Kyle Turris says about him and his leadership.

This is not the first time the Sens have taken home town discounts from a player and then rewarded them in strange ways though, it seems to be a tradition - see Marian Hossa.

 

[The Fuhr*]

I agree dude... I remember when Alfie signed for 5.5 with us, when Holik got 9.0 as a UFA

Alfie gave his pay checques to the team when we were bankrupt so we could pickup Smolinski at the trade deadline

Ownership has shown profit means more then loyalty... I would not expect any hometown discounts any time soon.

Plus the team has gone to war with the top agent JP Barry... His clients will be driven away from Ottawa

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Prior to Alfredsson gate I was under the impression the reward for taking a hometown discount was the appreciation of the fan base, which by all accounts we provided in this case.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Prior to Alfredsson gate I was under the impression the reward for taking a hometown discount was the appreciation of the fan base, which by all accounts we provided in this case.

While this is part of it, the idea is to leave money for other areas to be more competitive, which I think played into the whole thing. They wanted Alfie to leave money on the table so they could pursue a Bobby Ryan and still stay within the internal constraints. At least that's what I'd guess would be Murray and Melnyk's proposal while harping on limited financials. Clearly didn't work this time.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I've never heard of a player having a team pay him back for a contract stipulation on the contract currently being negotiated with a higher dollar value on a possible future contract. I always assumed the response to "So, you want an extra year on the contract? What do I get in return." "You know all that money you would be getting?" "Oh."

 

[The Fuhr*]

Prior to Alfredsson gate I was under the impression the reward for taking a hometown discount was the appreciation of the fan base, which by all accounts we provided in this case.

With Alfredsson I've felt he did it so we could spend money in other areas... As a UFA before the lockout I remember reading the Rangers would offer him 9-10 million a season...

He wanted to win a cup as a Sen and left money on the table so the Sens could do that.

Now he wanted some money back because of the last year on a contract BM asked him to take... Dummy year to lower the cap hit... And ownership rejected that idea

Profits > Loyalty

I'm interested to see how the Spezza and Ryan deals go

If both end up walking, point to how they handled Alfie as the reason

 

[HavlatMach9]

he buy out was done as a courtesy to him, and an acknowledgement that he was worth more than the team options years.

Sounds good to me. I also mentioned the caphit was lower, but it didn't become lower by a significant amount to benefit the team, so what you say makes sense.

No dude, that's not how it works. You can't magically move half of his yearly salary to the previous year. There was "disputed" talk of some form of compensation, and you've all of a sudden rendered it fact and removed half of this years salary request.

It's still not convincing me though. I definitely see where Alfie was coming from. Yes we're a better team with the 7m elsewhere. But I'm still not convinced that the Sens are innocent here. It's true that the Sens didn't owe him anything and they'd be forced to change their plans for this season.

I've changed my mind to not enough information for me to say who's at fault, and I'd prefer that Murray/Melnyk stay quiet, and also changed my mind to that the contract was front-loaded to benefit Alfie because otherwise the caphit would be 6m and we wouldn't have bought out his contract.

 

[Liliaceae]

The difference is they deserve big contracts and they'll get it.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Before the Jets came back I followed the Sens and I thought I'd weigh in. I really am having a hard time understanding why the Sens are taking a beating for not giving in to his ridiculous demands about being compensated for that one cheap year. Its like people forgot that the Sens did him a favor first by buying out those cheap team option years and then giving him a contract that paid him 7 million in cash the first two years instead of the much lower amount had the Sens exercised those options. They also gave him in essence a free $2.1 million due to the buy out. I think the Sens have done right by Alfie over the years and they really don't deserve this cheap label that's been thrown about lately.

The Sens did themselves the favor buying out those option years because if Alfie had hit 70 pts or 70 games played (he ended up hitting both), he could of exercised his option to become a UFA and would of got as much or more money elsewhere.

 

[pepty]

The difference is they deserve big contracts and they'll get it.

Quite right! Not like that bum Alfredsson. What has he ever done for us?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I've never heard of a player having a team pay him back for a contract stipulation on the contract currently being negotiated with a higher dollar value on a possible future contract. I always assumed the response to "So, you want an extra year on the contract? What do I get in return." "You know all that money you would be getting?" "Oh."

Exactly.

If a player chooses to take a home town discount, it's because they either don't want to move the family and want stability, or they're planning on staying in the city after retirement. It should never be the expectation that you'll see the money back in your pocket down the road. It's not a discount if you're getting it back.

This bickering about the hometown discount reminds me of a lot of those kids out there these days picking up their volunteer hours for school. Quite a few of these kids seem to think volunteering means getting free t-shirts, free lunches, and automatic high level reference on their resume, etc. It's not volunteering if you're expecting to get something tangible in return...it's working for non-monetary pay.

I hope players take it as a lesson - if you're worried about the money, don't take a home town discount to begin with. Be happy with the contract you choose to sign.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

The thing that ought to worry Sens fans is the message Melnyk is sending. It's not about how stars will be treated, but about competitiveness. Melnyk made comments about how he doesn't think it's worth it to overpay for mediocre players, but he conveniently leaves out one fact:

The Sens could have had Ryan AND Alfredsson this year if Melnyk A) cared and B) wasn't such a terrible businessman. This Sens team could be fantastic and a contender to go deep, but now they're middle of the playoff pack. and it's all because of Melnyk's finances.

Players ought to be worried that when Karlsson and friends are in their prime, Melnyk still might not shell out the cash to put the team in an elite position. Melnyk comes off like he's more interested in sustained above average results than striking while the iron is hot. That's not going to go over well in the hockey world. That's the real damage done here; the Sens have come out of this looking unambitious and uncompetitive.

 

[pepty]

If
I hope players take it as a lesson - if you're worried about the money, don't take a home town discount to begin with. Be happy with the contract you choose to sign.

Not exactly sure what this has to do with anything as Alfie has not mentioned wanting any money back from his home town discounts and I dont think he considered playing out last year as a home town discount, not a voluntary one anyway.

I mentioned the home town discounts and playing here when he could have made more money elsewhere in response to all the posts saying what a greedy player he is and in it only for the money which has not been at all the kind of player he has been in all his time here.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Not exactly sure what this has to do with anything as Alfie has not mentioned wanting any money back from his home town discounts and I dont think he considered playing out last year as a home town discount, not a voluntary one anyway.

I mentioned the home town discounts and playing here when he could have made more money elsewhere in response to all the posts saying what a greedy player he is and in it only for the money which has not been at all the kind of player he has been in all his time here.

What do you mean? He signed a contract that was front loaded where the last year paid one million. He was looking for 7 million this season to basically be repaid for the underpayment from last season.

When he originally signed that last contract, he knew there was a possibility he might still be around to play that last year at one million. If he wasn't happy with the concept of potentially paying for that amount, he shouldn't have agreed to tack on that final year, and he certainly shouldn't have been looking to be overpaid this season to compensate for last year.

Look, it's a great thing he did not seeing absolute top dollar from Ottawa all those years (it's subjective to say whether or not he was 'underpaid,' as some of the contracts people refer to as comparables are obviously bad contracts and huge overpayments done by mediocre GMs). That's one of the big reasons why he was so beloved in this town.

But if he wasn't pleased with that last contract, he had every right not to sign it. And he shouldn't have.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

But if he wasn't pleased with that last contract, he had every right not to sign it. And he shouldn't have.

But, to turn this around, Alfredsson wasn't pleased with this contract offer, and so he didn't sign it. What's wrong with it, then?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

But, to turn this around, Alfredsson wasn't pleased with this contract offer, and so he didn't sign it. What's wrong with it, then?

Not a thing. He has every right to say no to a contract offer and look for more.

Choosing not to negotiate further, and quickly running to the first team on his list....now that's a wee bit different. That was the real disappointment.

 

[Icelevel]

i will be nervous until lazar re-signs long term

 

[Super Cake]

i will be nervous until lazar re-signs long term

Next thing you know, karlsson will fire his current agent and hire j.p. barry as his agent.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

i will be nervous until lazar re-signs long term

Bloated Garrioch wasn't even mentioning CHris Phillips as a Barry client on Team1200 the other day. If this is Phillips' last contract no harm done but if he wants another year or two...

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

Not a thing. He has every right to say no to a contract offer and look for more.

Choosing not to negotiate further, and quickly running to the first team on his list....now that's a wee bit different. That was the real disappointment.

I will agree that is something that burns me about this whole affair.

It's understandable that Alfie might have felt that he wasn't getting his due from ownership, but he didn't waste any time in getting out once the door was open. Kind of a zero-to-sixty reaction there that I don't quite get. I can't help but feel that time could have absolved this whole situation. I'm damn sure there would have been serious pressure on ownership to get a deal done once free agency opened and the fans realized that Alfie was now a UFA.

 

[DylanSensFan]

It comes down to... Alfredsson has a greedy and idiotic Agent. Alfie was not informed very well, or was and just did not care. He made a poor decision over a million dollars. Asking for 7mill and then expecting us to bring in pieces for a Stanley Cup run is ludicrous.

 

[BankStreetParade]

It comes down to... Alfredsson has a greedy and idiotic Agent. Alfie was not informed very well, or was and just did not care. He made a poor decision over a million dollars. Asking for 7mill and then expecting us to bring in pieces for a Stanley Cup run is ludicrous.

They were in the running for Clarkson. Could you imagine how much they would have had to offer him if they signed Alfredsson to a contract for $7 million?

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

I think the Sens reputation around the league with current and potential players is extemely damaged. The whole thing made no sense from the beginning and every time the Sens say something it makes them sound worse.

Alfredsson's side of the story makes everything he did seem logical.

Daniel Alfredsson said when he negotiated his last deal both he and the Sens had known that he would retire after the third year, the Sens then asked for him to add a 4th year at $1 million to lower the cap hit (the Sens would never actually would have had to pay the million if he retired). When Alfredsson decided to return for the 4th year he couldn't renegotiate the terms of the last year of the deal but he asked the Senators to compensate him in his next contract if he did not retire after the 4th year at $1 million and they agreed. So when Alfredsson spoke to them last year about an extension of $8 million for next season Murray took the offer to Melnyk and he said no. Then this summer Alfie made his offers of 1 year $7 million and 2 years $12 million and Murray said those deals weren't fair and wouldn't fit under the Sens internal cap. They countered with 1 year $4.5 million. Then Alfredsson stopped negotiating with the Sens, Melnyk eventually told Murray to give Alfredsson what he wanted but their was no communication until Alfredsson called Murray to tell him he was going to Detroit.

Alfredsson had an agreement that he would be fairly compensated for the previous year, first he suggested 1 year 8 million (which would work out to $4.5 million for the past year and upcoming year), then $7 million (which would work out to $4 million for the past year and upcoming year) or a 2 year at $12 million (which would work out to $4.33 million for the past year and the next 2 upcoming years). The Sens offer of 1 year $4.5 million in Alfredsson's eyes is $2.75 million for last year and $2.75 million for the upcoming year. Alfredsson obviously didn't see this as fair compensation and felt like he been lied to. Obviously Alfredsson has no interest in doing business with people who don't honor their word.

The Senators side makes less sense.

Bryan Murray has denied that the Sens had requested the 4th year be added to the contract or that he had agreed to compensate Alfredsson for the fourth year at the low salary.

So why would Melnyk finally agree at the end to give Alfie what he wanted if they had no culpability for the 4th year or agreeing to compensate him. If what they're saying is true then Alfie's contract demands are crazy and the fans would of sided with them from the start. And when Alfie first approached them about an extension at 1 year $8 million that is an insane number yet Murray has always been confident he could sign Alfie.

I think Alfie is telling the truth. When they were first approached with the prospect of an extension Melnyk put if off hoping his own finances would improve (get the casino), or Alfie would just retire. Alfie decided to play and now it was time to scramble, first they tried to get him forget the commitment and just take less, then they said, 'just tell us what the minimum you will take is' (the blank cheque) but it was too late. Alfie had enough.

Alfie then took the high road and was ready to move on he decided to explain it to the fans as he was just being greedy. But Melnyk likes to talk and he's upset at the city and he's taking heat over Alfredsson leaving and he runs him mouth to the point Alfie has decides no more Mr Nice Guy. Then Alfie drops his bombs last week, and Sens now have to deal with cap circumvention talk on top of not honoring their word to their franchise player. So now the Sens change their approach, instead of targeting Alfie they say Alfie is an honorable man and believes what he is saying but has been lied to or mislead by his agent. And the spin continues.

 

[Senscore]

Well if the guy who shot the puck at Niedermayer and launched poor Darcinius Tucker into the boards is at odds with the Sens, then clearly they are doing something right.


In all honesty, we thought Joe Corvo left on bad terms, but clearly it was nothing that money can't fix. As it always has been.

 

[DrEasy]

So why would Melnyk finally agree at the end to give Alfie what he wanted if they had no culpability for the 4th year or agreeing to compensate him.

I think the explanation is pretty simple: they were trying to fit both Alfie and another good player (Clarkson or Ryan) under their internal cap. Once they saw the possibility of Alf not signing they decided that they'd rather just give Alf what he wanted, possibly at the expense of signing the other player. But once Alf signed with Detroit and Clarkson was gone too it was a no-brainer to do the Ryan deal.

I don't think anybody's necessarily lying. It's possible to reconcile all sides of this story.