Line Combos: How many "tough" players do the Toronto Maple Leafs have?

[Notsince67]

Strength has little to do with tough. Just because he bear hugged a guy doesn’t mean he is tough.

Tough is breaking your ankle and playing through the playoffs, Shanahan says hello.

I was responding to a poster who questioned the size of Marners arms.
Maybe you should take him to task.

 

[mclaren55]

I was responding to a poster who questioned the size of Marners arms.
Maybe you should take him to task.

Why does it matter whom you were responding too?

I wasn’t taking anyone to task, but how much you can lift has very little to do with mental fortitude.

 

[EGL22]

A couple of players have even said when playing the Leafs there is almost 0 fear of getting hit hard and you can do pretty much whatever you want to them.
Don't shoot it into Muzzin's corner,everyone else do it and charge in without fear.
On defence watch out for Hyman charging in and everyone else you don't much have to worry about.

In a non contact league the Leafs would be elite and scrae the crap out of teams but seeing as this is the NHL nobody takes them too seriously.

 

[Sensfourlife]

Here are those players ranked by hits this past 2019-20 season.

Muzzin ......... 109 hits
Holl ................ 89
Dermott ...... 76
Hyman ......... 52
Kerfoot ......... 48
Johnsson ..... 43
Matthews ... 40
Rielly ............. 38
Tavares ........ 32
Sandin ......... 33
Engvall ........ 29
Mikheyev ... 26
Marner ........ 24
Spezza ......... 13
Nylander ..... 9

Brady Tkachuk. 303

 

[fahad203]

Besides Muzzin nobody. Hyman is not tough, he's willing. He's tougher than everyone else, but I wouldn't call him tough

 

[mydnyte]

Would like to know how many tough/physical presence players we think the Leafs have right now, in the fans eyes...

We've seen a lot of toughness, grit, and even fights in the playoffs so far (particularly in the Eastern Conference).

Who do you think are our guys who can "beat em in the alley"?

I think I can count 1 or 2 players.

What do you think?

you need to add the option for NONE! Muzzin throws the odd hit, and Hyman bangs in corners, but, they are not tough, and really, not very physical other than the odd hit.
we have zero players that make forwards scared to stand in front of our net, and zero players that intimidate anyone physically

 

[Notsince67]

Why does it matter whom you were responding too?

I wasn’t taking anyone to task, but how much you can lift has very little to do with mental fortitude.

What does mental fortitude have to do with the point being made?

 

[Mess]

Matthews (40 hits) + Tavares (32) + Marner (24) + Nylander (9)

There are more hits in the course of a NHL playoff game then what we see from our top 4 over the course of full season.

What that suggests is the balance of the team will need to compensate in the physical department and something that needs addressing in team building strategies.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Depends on your definition of "tough." We don't have any guys that are Belak, Domi or Tucker "tough." Not even close. But we have one guy that's man enough to finish his checks in Hyman, and one guy who can't be pushed around in Muzzin. Our toughest player in Kadri was traded away last year in an awful trade.

We are an extremely soft team and, barring changes, we will continue to have no success in the playoffs, or miss them entirely. Unfortunately, Dubas is an ostrich with his head in the sand on this issue. Skill, skill, skill is all that matters to him. Too bad no one told him this isn't the OHL any more.

Skill gets you wins some of the time. Skill + toughness wins cups.

By the way, what was the point of adding guys like Nylander, Marner and Kerfoot in this poll?

Never mind the definition of tough crap. The team is a bunch of skaters. No grit chicken sh!ts

 

[Leafsfan74]

Never mind the definition of tough crap. The team is a bunch of skaters. No grit chicken sh!ts

Well the "toughness" of their top players is going to have to come within. I've never wavered from that opinion. You paid them, now they need to work through it. I believe a "guiding hand" can come with addition of other players who have a compete mentality and through osmosis they will understand what it takes. If 3rd and 4th liners bring it every shift and cut into their ice time, they will understand.

That game against the Habs last year when the young guns got angry and Matthews pushed down Weber was to me the pinnacle of what this team CAN do, if they get hot under the collar. Matthews fought back and pushed over and stepped over 6'4 D man. That's sheer strength and compete. That game when they came back from 3-0 is the team mentality they need to bottle up and re-use.

Leafs certainly need more weight and more players willing to get dirty in front of the net, grind down other teams. A toughness with some weight so they can play slightly more physical when needed. Doesn't need to be a guy 6'5, 240, but, you need some balance in your lineup.

Every playoff series they have just lost out. Their best players can't get it done. Could Leafs have beaten Boston or Columbus with a couple of lines that cycle and create havok? Who knows. It certainly would have forced the other team and their coaches to reallocate their matchups.

 

[mclaren55]

What does mental fortitude have to do with the point being made?

It’s a synonym for tough. The whole point of this thread from the looks of it. As in we have no “tough” players. This is evident from the repeated failures to succeed in the post season.

Maybe I missed something?

 

[LeafSteel]

Sorry, but I don’t like the composition of this team and they aren’t winning anything as currently constructed.

We don’t have a team who are willing to pay the price and when challenged they back off.

Really, don’t like this collective bunch of players very much.

Imagine what Pat Burns would think of these guys?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

A couple of players have even said when playing the Leafs there is almost 0 fear of getting hit hard and you can do pretty much whatever you want to them.
Don't shoot it into Muzzin's corner,everyone else do it and charge in without fear.
On defence watch out for Hyman charging in and everyone else you don't much have to worry about.

In a non contact league the Leafs would be elite and scrae the crap out of teams but seeing as this is the NHL nobody takes them too seriously.

So very sad but so very true ... without Clifford it will go back to usual ... i guess it will take Matty on LTIR next season for everyone to fully get

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

We should target Ross Johnston from the Islanders.

They are going to have trouble re-signing their players, and while Martin and Johnston play a similar game, I can see them offering Martin more to keep him around, he is a big part of that team.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Well the "toughness" of their top players is going to have to come within. I've never wavered from that opinion. You paid them, now they need to work through it. I believe a "guiding hand" can come with addition of other players who have a compete mentality and through osmosis they will understand what it takes. If 3rd and 4th liners bring it every shift and cut into their ice time, they will understand.

That game against the Habs last year when the young guns got angry and Matthews pushed down Weber was to me the pinnacle of what this team CAN do, if they get hot under the collar. Matthews fought back and pushed over and stepped over 6'4 D man. That's sheer strength and compete. That game when they came back from 3-0 is the team mentality they need to bottle up and re-use.

Leafs certainly need more weight and more players willing to get dirty in front of the net, grind down other teams. A toughness with some weight so they can play slightly more physical when needed. Doesn't need to be a guy 6'5, 240, but, you need some balance in your lineup.

Every playoff series they have just lost out. Their best players can't get it done. Could Leafs have beaten Boston or Columbus with a couple of lines that cycle and create havok? Who knows. It certainly would have forced the other team and their coaches to reallocate their matchups.

We've had some bottom 6 players cut into the icetime of the top 4 before. Leafs Nation collectively lost their shit.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Barabanov,Lehtonen and Mikheyev are in i believe. Soupy has sponsorship and a comfort level in Toronto.2 years@$1,500,000 per would be good.
Barabanov brings some jam from my limited look at him

 

[fahad203]

Barabanov,Lehtonen and Mikheyev are in i believe. Soupy has sponsorship and a comfort level in Toronto.2 years@$1,500,000 per would be good.
Barabanov brings some jam from my limited look at him

Everyone in Khl looks tougher than who they are. He'll be like jhonsson and kapanen, like passive tough, maybe a slash, little push back but nothing more

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Everyone in Khl looks tougher than who they are. He'll be like jhonsson and kapanen, like passive tough, maybe a slash, little push back but nothing more

I hope not bud, I honestly don’t have the willingness to accept it any longer.

 

[Dreakmur]

Matthews (40 hits) + Tavares (32) + Marner (24) + Nylander (9)

There are more hits in the course of a NHL playoff game then what we see from our top 4 over the course of full season.

What that suggests is the balance of the team will need to compensate in the physical department and something that needs addressing in team building strategies.

Hitting isn't toughness. Don't get me wrong, I think we need some guys who hit too, but they're two different things.

The kind of toughness we need from our top players is a willingness to take some punishment when required. Battle for ice, win puck battles, defend your space, etc. Tavares has always been good at that. Matthews developed that over the course of last season. Nylander has yet to demonstrate that kind of ability. Marner regressed last year.

 

[Antropovsky]

Hyman isnt really someone who finishes a check... he is generally really good on the forecheck, sometimes possessed and will separate man from puck with his body, but he isnt going to flatten anyone (maybe in a rare occasion at best), even if the opportunity presented itself and he really isnt "tough" or intimidating. I was pretty underwhelmed with his playoffs this year.

Muzzin is the only guy id say is a threatening hitter and would cause concern when opponents are the ice. He isnt much of a fighter though and not pverly intimidating toughness wise.

Clifford was tough and intimidating to the opponents. His hit in game two was one of the few highlights for me in the series and it was enjoyable to watch Columbus shy away from him when he was in their crease.

 

[Joedoggy]

I see by the voting Hyman and Muzzin are the tough players according to fans....Not to knock their play but they are not in the league of Tough....I guess it would not be hard to vote for them tho considering the rest of the cast in the vote.

 

[Joedoggy]

Hitting isn't toughness. Don't get me wrong, I think we need some guys who hit too, but they're two different things.

The kind of toughness we need from our top players is a willingness to take some punishment when required. Battle for ice, win puck battles, defend your space, etc. Tavares has always been good at that. Matthews developed that over the course of last season. Nylander has yet to demonstrate that kind of ability. Marner regressed last year.

(hitting) It most certainly is toughness....Giving punishment and being able to take a regular shift plus adding offence/defence is everything...Ex...listening to on ice mic's you could constantly hear D partners calling out "Martin" Martin"...in a effort to save their mates destruction and a puck turnover.
Add the fact Both Ciz. and Clutterbuck hit also...now you have bad dreams as a D-core since they are not sure which of the three are tracking them...the main guy being Martin just packs more punch in his hits and can send you to the showers early.

"the willingness to take punishment" sounds good ?...untill you are on the receiving end of relentless hitting as the NYI Identity line does...Tavaras improved in this department in Tor..only due to being surrounded by Charmin Soft...otherwise he gets clobbered since he also is not in the tough player category.

 

[Joedoggy]

(hitting) It most certainly is toughness....Giving punishment and being able to take a regular shift plus adding offence/defence is everything...Ex...listening to on ice mic's you could constantly hear D partners calling out "Martin" Martin"...in a effort to save their mates destruction and a puck turnover.
Add the fact Both Ciz. and Clutterbuck hit also...now you have bad dreams as a D-core since they are not sure which of the three are tracking them...the main guy being Martin just packs more punch in his hits and can send you to the showers early.

"the willingness to take punishment" sounds good ?...untill you are on the receiving end of relentless hitting as the NYI Identity line does...Tavaras improved in this department in Tor..only due to being surrounded by Charmin Soft...otherwise he gets clobbered since he also is not in the tough player category.

Fact is Good/tough/clean hitting is a real skill...ALA..Martin..being able to back up the skill of hitting is also required as part of this skill package..(Total player who also does not turn over pucks and who's possession numbers are always top on teams he played for)

 

[Da Cool Rula]

Spezza the scrapper

 

[Joedoggy]

We should target Ross Johnston from the Islanders.

They are going to have trouble re-signing their players, and while Martin and Johnston play a similar game, I can see them offering Martin more to keep him around, he is a big part of that team.

No as simular as one would think....Martin knows when to drop the hammer..always takes someone to the box with him...is rarely out of control..never uses his stick as a weapon....can chirp big time and never cheap shots a player......Big time glue guy also...Johnson in comparison is a mini Marts in training ..but tough.