How many points will the Sens get this year?

[topshelf15]

To be fair, Toronto with their massive fan base & endless supply of corporate sponsors can afford to do everything they are doing & more. Putting bums in the seats & getting corporate sponsorship has never been nor does it look like will ever be a problem for them with their endless supply of fans & money, while Ottawa is at the other end of this spectrum

While we don't know how rich EM is or not, with all the cost cutting measures we have already seen this yr from this franchise, we can surmise that money may be too tight to mention. It seems anything they do has to be within their limited budget on & off the ice. I wish he would just sell & give us all a break but he seems too suborn & will likely go down with the ship, move or forced out. The only way he survives this is if the Sens at some future point go on a long playoff run sooner rather than later since we don't know how long or how many seasons he can last without sellouts.

EM has failed hard,and the team not being profitable to him or not being able to sustain itself lies directly at his feet....Now he clings to this rather than realise his fail ,thus compounding the problem

 

[coladin]

GM's don't always say that though, I think that's kind of the point. (as proven by Shanahan/Babcock quotes provided by Engineer).

It's Dorion's job to set expectations for the fan base before the season starts. What he tells the players/coaches behind closed doors is his business, but he needs to control the message when speaking to the fan base. He can't continue to over promise and under deliver, because fans will tune out his message (kinda like they have after the last two years).

Babcock said there is “pain coming”, but the very next sentence is “the Leafs have been in pain for the last decade”. So, I guess the Leafs management lied for the previous 9 years?

 

[coladin]

St. James: Babcock knows 'pain coming' with Maple Leafs

Not sure what you were even getting at, it was said to the media prior to them tanking the day Babcock was introduced. Shanahan is above their GM, Lou/Dubas work under him. They went on to finish 30th that year.

That is what the Sens should be doing, instead they are just trying to keep season ticket sales from plummeting further, while at the same time creating more distance between the fanbase when they inevitably drastically fall below our GM's expectations

I think they stated that this upcoming season they will try and make the playoffs. Isn’t that the bare minimum? They aren’t going to say in April that they hope to be a lottery team. I think the picture will be very clear in opening night on what Dorion wants the team to achieve.

 

[stempniaksen]

Babcock said there is “pain coming”, but the very next sentence is “the Leafs have been in pain for the last decade”. So, I guess the Leafs management lied for the previous 9 years?

Not necessarily liars, they could have simply been delusional and thought they had the pieces in place to compete. You could make the same argument for Dorion, but calling him delusional instead of a liar isn't a ringing endorsement.

For better or for worse it's fallen on Dorion to set expectations for the fan base. In another timeline we have a real POHO to deal with those questions, but as is it's the GM's job to tell the fan base what we can expect moving forward. I think he's unequivocally failed in that regard so far.

 

[stempniaksen]

I think they stated that this upcoming season they will try and make the playoffs. Isn’t that the bare minimum? They aren’t going to say in April that they hope to be a lottery team. I think the picture will be very clear in opening night on what Dorion wants the team to achieve.

No (and I guess that's where we disagree?).

Why is Dorion even muttering the word "playoff" when this team has bottomed out the last two years and have traded 4 of their 6 best pieces. He doesn't need to say this team will compete for the playoffs, all he needs to do is continue to talk about youth and adding in some generic line about "competing every night and watching the kids grow".

Even mentioning the possibility of a playoff spot is setting unrealistic expectations for casual fans insulting hardcore fans who know this team/roster isn't anywhere close to that right now.

 

[swiftwin]

No (and I guess that's where we disagree?).

Why is Dorion even muttering the word "playoff" when this team has bottomed out the last two years and have traded 4 of their 6 best pieces. He doesn't need to say this team will compete for the playoffs, all he needs to do is continue to talk about youth and adding in some generic line about "competing every night and watching the kids grow".

Even mentioning the possibility of a playoff spot is setting unrealistic expectations for casual fans insulting hardcore fans who know this team/roster isn't anywhere close to that right now.

He just said we should try to compete for a playoff spot, which IMO is the bare minimum for any team in the NHL. If you're not atleast trying to make the playoffs, you shouldn't be in this league. The equivalent of "competing every night" as you say.

Dorion said that the goal to actually make the playoffs isn't until the following season.

 

[stempniaksen]

He just said we should try to compete for a playoff spot, which IMO is the bare minimum for any team in the NHL. If you're not atleast trying to make the playoffs, you shouldn't be in this league. The equivalent of "competing every night" as you say.

Dorion said that the goal to actually make the playoffs isn't until the following season.

My comms background tells me that he shouldn't have even said the word. Kinda re-iterates why we need someone else as the voice of the team though.

It's very far down the list of things to sewer Dorion over, but it doesn't mean it's not worth bringing up.

 

[Engineer]

He just said we should try to compete for a playoff spot, which IMO is the bare minimum for any team in the NHL. If you're not atleast trying to make the playoffs, you shouldn't be in this league. The equivalent of "competing every night" as you say.

Dorion said that the goal to actually make the playoffs isn't until the following season.

No, his exact words were:

"We are in phase 2 of the rebuild"

"Next year we need to start contending for the playoffs"

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It doesn't really matter what they say, because once again we will all be able to see clear as day that they're sending out a last place roster ready to finish last or close to, just like this past season.

These idiots aren't fooling anyone with their crappy team top to bottom. I'm sure old Patronizing Dorion will try to pass the buck to bs like injuries again though.

The people in charge of this organization are an embarrassment to pro sports.

 

[coladin]

Not necessarily liars, they could have simply been delusional and thought they had the pieces in place to compete. You could make the same argument for Dorion, but calling him delusional instead of a liar isn't a ringing endorsement.

For better or for worse it's fallen on Dorion to set expectations for the fan base. In another timeline we have a real POHO to deal with those questions, but as is it's the GM's job to tell the fan base what we can expect moving forward. I think he's unequivocally failed in that regard so far.

Yes, they could have been simply delusional. I think on that note, my point stands. What people want to hear would be lunacy. They are not going to say what you guys want.

And I don't need Dorion to set expectations for the fan base. He isn't Papa Smurf. I think fans can come to their own conclusions, as they do here. I was more optimistic , other were not.

 

[coladin]

No (and I guess that's where we disagree?).

Why is Dorion even muttering the word "playoff" when this team has bottomed out the last two years and have traded 4 of their 6 best pieces. He doesn't need to say this team will compete for the playoffs, all he needs to do is continue to talk about youth and adding in some generic line about "competing every night and watching the kids grow".

Even mentioning the possibility of a playoff spot is setting unrealistic expectations for casual fans insulting hardcore fans who know this team/roster isn't anywhere close to that right now.

Yes, we disagree on that point. The bare minimum has to be try and make the playoffs. There is nothing less than that. Colorado came off a 48 point season and made the playoffs. It can happen here as well. I think we all know it won't, but it is a possibility that you cannot rule out.

 

[stempniaksen]

Yes, they could have been simply delusional. I think on that note, my point stands. What people want to hear would be lunacy. They are not going to say what you guys want.

And I don't need Dorion to set expectations for the fan base. He isn't Papa Smurf. I think fans can come to their own conclusions, as they do here. I was more optimistic , other were not.

It's PR 101 to have someone set the expectations at the beginning of the season, we're not asking the team to re-invent the wheel here. It's more for the casual fan than the hardcore ones (as you already stated, the more hardcore fan can make up their own minds).

I don't think it's lunacy for the organization to come out and say "Our expectations for next year are that our young core continue to grow on and off the ice and that we compete every night. While a quick turnaround would be great, we are currently building towards FYOUS and have to take the long-term approach into consideration. We will do whatever is necessary to ensure we are in a position to compete when time comes." That took me all of 45 seconds, I'd expect someone making $80k+/year to be able to fluff that up enough to stick on a press release. Instead we get "the locker room is fixed, we will be better, ect".

 

[Micklebot]

Yes, we disagree on that point. The bare minimum has to be try and make the playoffs. There is nothing less than that. Colorado came off a 48 point season and made the playoffs. It can happen here as well. I think we all know it won't, but it is a possibility that you cannot rule out.

Lunacy would be setting high expectations knowing dull well you will under deliver.

Nobody wants them to say we are aiming for a guaranteed top 4 pick, but youc can still frame realistic expectations for the coming season in a positive light. Focus on the development side not where we will end up in the standings. Focus on correcting the known issues regardless of whether or not there will be short term negative impact on the wins and loses.

Honestly, this isn't complicated, they really just need to avoid setting up unreasonable expectations but they have consistently gone out of their way to do the opposite

 

[coladin]

Lunacy would be setting high expectations knowing dull well you will under deliver.

Nobody wants them to say we are aiming for a guaranteed top 4 pick, but youc can still frame realistic expectations for the coming season in a positive light. Focus on the development side not where we will end up in the standings. Focus on correcting the known issues regardless of whether or not there will be short term negative impact on the wins and loses.

Honestly, this isn't complicated, they really just need to avoid setting up unreasonable expectations but they have consistently gone out of their way to do the opposite

It isn't complicated, but I do think people are making a bigger deal about this then it needs be. Teams say all kinds of things, like Toronto did for the 9 years prior to the interview mentioned. It is not an Ottawa thing, I guess, is my point.

 

[Micklebot]

It isn't complicated, but I do think people are making a bigger deal about this then it needs be. Teams say all kinds of things, like Toronto did for the 9 years prior to the interview mentioned. It is not an Ottawa thing, I guess, is my point.

Toronto is a bit different though, they said they were goint to make the playoffs and were willing to back that up with adding to their flawed roster. We are making claims that we will improve but taking zero actions towards that goal.

The ottawa thing isn't that we are going through some pain with minimal improvement, it's being told to expect improvement with zero actions taken to rationalize those expectations.

If this were a one time thing i might be prone to see it your way but mismanaging expectations has been the norm since Dorion took over.

 

[swiftwin]

No, his exact words were:

"We are in phase 2 of the rebuild"

"Next year we need to start contending for the playoffs"

Exactly. He also said the following year, we need to make the playoffs. Phase 1 was the teardown (last season). Phase 2 is starting to build it up again. Phase 3 is making the playoffs.

 

[BondraTime]

Babcock said there is “pain coming”, but the very next sentence is “the Leafs have been in pain for the last decade”. So, I guess the Leafs management lied for the previous 9 years?

Not liars, but definitely delusional. They are talking about Burke/Nonis and Carlyle/Wilson/Horachek. I think most would agree that group of management was awful, just like ours. That's one of the most painful stretches in the past few decades in the NHL headlined by awful management.

Shanahan joined the Leafs in 2014, Lou in 2015, and Babcock in 2015. I agree with their assessment of the past 9 seasons wing painful due to their management.

In that respect, yeah I agree that would be something accurately said if we hired a competent GM, POHO and coach all within a year. The past 3 years has been pain and terribly handled, and Dorion and Boucher could be reasonably lambasted

 

[coladin]

Toronto is a bit different though, they said they were goint to make the playoffs and were willing to back that up with adding to their flawed roster. We are making claims that we will improve but taking zero actions towards that goal.

The ottawa thing isn't that we are going through some pain with minimal improvement, it's being told to expect improvement with zero actions taken to rationalize those expectations.

If this were a one time thing i might be prone to see it your way but mismanaging expectations has been the norm since Dorion took over.

I am expecting improvement because of the players that are developing, like Tkachuk, Chabot, White, Wolanin, etc...will be better . I think that can be rationalized . Of course, I can but many won’t share that type of optimism.

 

[coladin]

Not liars, but definitely delusional. They are talking about Burke/Nonis and Carlyle/Wilson/Horachek. I think most would agree that group of management was awful, just like ours.

Shanahan joined the Leafs in 2014, Lou in 2015, and Babcock in 2015. I agree with their assessment of the past 9 seasons wing painful due to their management.

In that respect, yeah I agree that would be something accurately said if we hired a competent GM, POHO and coach all within a year. The past 3 years has been pain and terribly handled, and Dorion and Boucher could be reasonably lambasted.

Burke won a Cup. Carlyle too. Wilson was a veteran, respected coach. At the time , they had all the respect as commanded by their reputations, previous success allowed.

There are a lot of “delusional” types in the NHL. They all believe in their team and players even though on the outside, it would seem delusional. I wonder what Sakic said after the 48 point season as far as expectations.

 

[Micklebot]

I am expecting improvement because of the players that are developing, like Tkachuk, Chabot, White, Wolanin, etc...will be better . I think that can be rationalized . Of course, I can but many won’t share that type of optimism.

You don't think it's an unreasonable ask for their year to year growth to offset the loss of Stone Duchene and Dzingel? Enough so that the last place team could compete for the playoffs?

I mean, anything can happen but i find it odd that Dorion has essentally set expectations for next season even higher than he did this past one. There was, imo, a lot more room (relatively speaking) for optimism last year which is frankly astounding given how poorly last offseason went.

 

[BondraTime]

Burke won a Cup. Carlyle too. Wilson was a veteran, respected coach. At the time , they had all the respect as commanded by their reputations, previous success allowed.

There are a lot of “delusional” types in the NHL. They all believe in their team and players even though on the outside, it would seem delusional. I wonder what Sakic said after the 48 point season as far as expectations.

He had said that they were purging for the rebuild, and they would not be active in UFA.

I know it's brought up to show how teams can become good due to parity, but there isn't, in my honest opinion as little as that's worth, much comparison between the young talent on the two teams.

Unless we can have a guy step up and finish top 3 in MVP voting (Mac) and another finish with 84 points, not sure the Sens can make that jump to squeaking into the playoffs. Especially when the Av's weren't even using their #4 overall pick from their season from hell and the Sens best forward in their season from hell was their 4th overall pick.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The Senators front office is just horrible at communications. The combination of lack of willingness or ability to spend on players, and hockey operations, poor communications and inexperience and ability in the GM role have put this team behind every team in the NHL. Parity exists in the NHL but not for the Senators they are not there yet. They are not close to that yet. Can they get there without investing in the team .. beyond signing their RFAs.. I think its a long dark road. I am holding a glimmer of hope that Melnyk eventually sells or he finds the cash to hire a real qualified POHO and gives him all the rope he needs to straighten the mess out.

 

[aragorn]

What they say in public & what they believe behind close doors I would guess are completely different. These guys have been around long enough to know what they have & what they need, but at the same time they also need to sell seats & advertising & they have to sell hope right now. I don't think it will matter who they hire as President, EM will still be calling most of the shots & the poor guy will probably be stuck with an extremely limited budget to do anything anyway.

They also won't replace PD since he just got a 3 yr contract & even the coach will likely come from in-house to save money. IMO they seem to be moving in the right direction with this rebuild but it's not going to be an over night project, I think we have a few yrs to go before they can start talking about contending for a playoff spot. But who knows crazier things have happened & they could use some good luck for a change.

 

[coladin]

You don't think it's an unreasonable ask for their year to year growth to offset the loss of Stone Duchene and Dzingel? Enough so that the last place team could compete for the playoffs?

I mean, anything can happen but i find it odd that Dorion has essentally set expectations for next season even higher than he did this past one. There was, imo, a lot more room (relatively speaking) for optimism last year which is frankly astounding given how poorly last offseason went.

No, I find it completely reasonable for ask for growth. I am not sure I was asked if it was or not? It was a discussion about rationalization of improvement. I think it can be rationalized, but also it can be argued that the rationalizations are not realistic.

I think Brady Tkachuk, with more finish, and better balance, could have easily had 35 goals. Chabot, if he didn't miss games, could have had some even more impressive numbers. Wolanin is going too be great, as will White, who scored a beauty yesterday.

I think the expectations are the bare minimum. To try and get in the playoffs. There isn't anything lower. Our roster was better this past season, and until December, things looked promising, and then it went off the rails in December. I want to see what will happen in the next few months to see what kind of team we will have

 

[Crosside]

I think if we trade Anderson and go with Nilsson and Hogberg we can have a decent year. If by miracle we can sign Bobrovsky this summer we can battle for playoff spot