How many Dmen would you put ahead of Orr *Based on Defence only*
- Thread starter Habssince89
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TheDevilMadeMe
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We have coach's polls from the Toronto Star from 1971 and 1974.
From 1971: Best Defensive Defenceman - Ted Harris, Al Arbour, Bobby Orr tie
From 1974: Best Defensive Defenceman - Bill White (Borje Salming, Jacques Laperriere, Rod Seiling, Dave Burrows)
Harry Sinden said he'd take Ray Bourque over Bobby Orr to defend a lead. Based on watching Bourque play quite a bit myself, that means I'd also take Lidstrom, Stevens, or Chelios over Orr defensively since I don't think they were any worse in their own end than Bourque.
From 1971: Best Defensive Defenceman - Ted Harris, Al Arbour, Bobby Orr tie
From 1974: Best Defensive Defenceman - Bill White (Borje Salming, Jacques Laperriere, Rod Seiling, Dave Burrows)
Harry Sinden said he'd take Ray Bourque over Bobby Orr to defend a lead. Based on watching Bourque play quite a bit myself, that means I'd also take Lidstrom, Stevens, or Chelios over Orr defensively since I don't think they were any worse in their own end than Bourque.
billybudd
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- Feb 1, 2012
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I'd go with Bourque, Robinson, Lidstrom, Stevens, Chelios definitely. Maybe Chara.
Sort of difficult to do, though, to separate it like this; with Orr on the ice, defensive chances don't necessarily materialize because he's always advancing the puck. Could be argued that that's more valuable in keeping the puck out of the net than Chara breaking up every pass through the circles and punishing the cycle with his gigantic frame.
Sort of difficult to do, though, to separate it like this; with Orr on the ice, defensive chances don't necessarily materialize because he's always advancing the puck. Could be argued that that's more valuable in keeping the puck out of the net than Chara breaking up every pass through the circles and punishing the cycle with his gigantic frame.
gudzilla
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- Aug 9, 2012
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i do understand how important intimidation is in terms of defensive play, but how good was actually stevens compared to lidström/chelios if you remove the intimidation factor?
Epsilon
#basta
Better than Chelios and about on the same level as Lidstrom. Stevens was probably better at shutting down a single player but didn't control the entire defensive zone as well as Lidstrom did in his prime (in part because Lidstrom was better at moving the puck either up ice or into a less threatening position).
Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
Doug Harvey is one who hasn't been mentioned yet that I rank ahead of Orr defensively.
Gotta think Langway has a good shot considering he was pretty much all defense.
Anyone have thoughts on Serge Savard?
Gotta think Langway has a good shot considering he was pretty much all defense.
Anyone have thoughts on Serge Savard?
Rhiessan71
Just a Fool
What Devil said and I would add Harvey and Langway to that as well. There‘s not really anyone, Lidstrom included, that I could place ahead of Rod defensively.
Epsilon
#basta
The difficult "what if?" with placing players above Orr defensively is it's hard to say how good Orr would have been defensively if he'd assumed less of an attacking role. So I suppose the only thing we can do is basically what's being done here and listing players who did display better defensive play based on their playing styles (and of course were all light years behind Orr offensively, save maybe Bourque).
The elite tier for me is Harvey, Savard, Langway, Stevens, and Lidstrom. One step down and I'd add Robinson, Bourque, Chelios, and a few others.
The elite tier for me is Harvey, Savard, Langway, Stevens, and Lidstrom. One step down and I'd add Robinson, Bourque, Chelios, and a few others.
I agree with everything in this strong post. It's hard to separate them. Jordan and Pippen were the top 2 defensive players in the 90s, but part of what made their defense so great is that the turnover almost always lead to a dunk or the layup on the other end. Converting defensive takeaways or turnovers is a part of defense whether we're talking hockey or basketball.
MuchoMacho
Registered User
#66
Registered User
Bobby Orr is Bobby Orr and IMO the best of all time but I've always thought Potvin was the best two way defensemen I've ever seen.
SealsFan
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- May 3, 2009
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Lol you have 2300 posts........
I think he means he rarely posts in the History section, but posts in the other sections of HFBoards.
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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Alright, let's get one thing straight here. If Bobby Orr is on the ice protecting a lead with a minute left you are pretty safe. Heck, Paul Coffey would be a guy I wouldn't be nervous with in that situation either, when the chips were down Coffey came through. The reason being is that these guys were smart hockey players. They wouldn't clear the puck up the middle, they would chip it off the boards if they had to. Smart plays.
Lidstrom I felt was just so great positionally that he'd be a safe pick as well.
So just so we know, Orr is still elite defensively, and I don't think we should forget this. Keeping the puck away from the other team and not turning it over in the defensive zone is still sound defensive play.
But to isolate defense only? I like how someone mentioned Savard. That might just be my #1 pick to be honest. Savard would do a lot of subtle things to ensure the game wouldn't be tied. He's about as smart as anyone else too on the ice. I think Langway was better defensively as well since he focused on that nearly 100% of the time.
Lidstrom I felt was just so great positionally that he'd be a safe pick as well.
So just so we know, Orr is still elite defensively, and I don't think we should forget this. Keeping the puck away from the other team and not turning it over in the defensive zone is still sound defensive play.
But to isolate defense only? I like how someone mentioned Savard. That might just be my #1 pick to be honest. Savard would do a lot of subtle things to ensure the game wouldn't be tied. He's about as smart as anyone else too on the ice. I think Langway was better defensively as well since he focused on that nearly 100% of the time.
Sentinel
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Laphroaig
Registered User
A lot of good players here but if I'm protecting a one goal lead in the last minute of the game I guarantee that Orr will be one of my two defensemen. Ideally he'd be paired with Potvin or Harvey.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Read much?
He's simply pointing out that Coffey wouldn't be a liability while protecting a one-goal lead. He's not saying that Coffey was better than Orr defensively (I don't think anyone would sign up to make that argument.)
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Watch hockey much?
My point is that compared to anyone else mentioned in this thread, not to mention countless others, Coffey would indeed be a liability with a one goal lead.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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and i'll reiterate that his point is that compared to the vast majority of d-men ever, i.e., not just against the top ten defensive guys ever, coffey wouldn't be the liability that received opinion often suggests he would be.
not sure why you're jumping down this throat, as you guys aren't talking about the same thing.
They asked Harry Sinden the famed gm of Bruins who would you put in if you had a goal lead; the answer was Ray Bourque. He was asked about great Bruin d. He says overall Orr was BETTER but not defensively....
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Killion
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- Feb 19, 2010
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Yes, that Sinden quote was posted earlier and in as much as I admire Ray Bourque, disagree with Harry Sinden on this one entirely. As a "pure Defenceman" then sure, that was Bourque, though he did have a deadly offensive edge to him but still. If youve got both on your bench you'd go with both in tandem, as a pair, a unit. Im not buying any arguments that Bourque was superior to Orr defensively which when combined with #4's offensive capabilities, well, lets just say Orr all the way, coming or going. Have people forgotten how in such instances Orr would rag the puck for a minute, three minutes even, like a Man playing Keep Away with boys? Dont recall seeing Ray Bourque doing that to any great extent.... not a big fan of Harry Sinden's nor of his opinions quite frankly.
