How many Dmen would you put ahead of Orr *Based on Defence only*

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Habssince89, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. Habssince89

    Habssince89 Registered User

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    Long time lurker, rarely ever make posts on this board. Love the knowledge you guys show on here.

    Just wondering how many Dmen throughout history would you rank ahead of Orr defensively?

    I know Orr was no slouch in his own end but where does he rank in terms of defence? Was he elite, or was he only above average defensively, combined with elite offence and an elite ability to control a game?

    Thanks in advance, I look forward to seeing what you guys have to say.
     
  2. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    We have coach's polls from the Toronto Star from 1971 and 1974.

    From 1971: Best Defensive Defenceman - Ted Harris, Al Arbour, Bobby Orr tie

    From 1974: Best Defensive Defenceman - Bill White (Borje Salming, Jacques Laperriere, Rod Seiling, Dave Burrows)

    Harry Sinden said he'd take Ray Bourque over Bobby Orr to defend a lead. Based on watching Bourque play quite a bit myself, that means I'd also take Lidstrom, Stevens, or Chelios over Orr defensively since I don't think they were any worse in their own end than Bourque.
     
  3. billybudd

    billybudd 1for the other thumb

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    I'd go with Bourque, Robinson, Lidstrom, Stevens, Chelios definitely. Maybe Chara.

    Sort of difficult to do, though, to separate it like this; with Orr on the ice, defensive chances don't necessarily materialize because he's always advancing the puck. Could be argued that that's more valuable in keeping the puck out of the net than Chara breaking up every pass through the circles and punishing the cycle with his gigantic frame.
     
  4. gudzilla

    gudzilla Registered User

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    i do understand how important intimidation is in terms of defensive play, but how good was actually stevens compared to lidström/chelios if you remove the intimidation factor?
     
  5. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Better than Chelios and about on the same level as Lidstrom. Stevens was probably better at shutting down a single player but didn't control the entire defensive zone as well as Lidstrom did in his prime (in part because Lidstrom was better at moving the puck either up ice or into a less threatening position).
     
  6. Hawkey Town 18

    Hawkey Town 18 Registered User

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    Doug Harvey is one who hasn't been mentioned yet that I rank ahead of Orr defensively.


    Gotta think Langway has a good shot considering he was pretty much all defense.


    Anyone have thoughts on Serge Savard?
     
  7. Rhiessan71

    Rhiessan71 Just a Fool

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    What Devil said and I would add Harvey and Langway to that as well. There‘s not really anyone, Lidstrom included, that I could place ahead of Rod defensively.
     
  8. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    The difficult "what if?" with placing players above Orr defensively is it's hard to say how good Orr would have been defensively if he'd assumed less of an attacking role. So I suppose the only thing we can do is basically what's being done here and listing players who did display better defensive play based on their playing styles (and of course were all light years behind Orr offensively, save maybe Bourque).

    The elite tier for me is Harvey, Savard, Langway, Stevens, and Lidstrom. One step down and I'd add Robinson, Bourque, Chelios, and a few others.
     
  9. Wrigley

    Wrigley The Cisco Kid was a friend of mine

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    I agree with everything in this strong post. It's hard to separate them. Jordan and Pippen were the top 2 defensive players in the 90s, but part of what made their defense so great is that the turnover almost always lead to a dunk or the layup on the other end. Converting defensive takeaways or turnovers is a part of defense whether we're talking hockey or basketball.
     
  10. drmagg

    drmagg Don't

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    <---
     
  11. MuchoMacho

    MuchoMacho Registered User

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    Lol you have 2300 posts........:laugh:
     
  12. #66

    #66 Registered User

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    Bobby Orr is Bobby Orr and IMO the best of all time but I've always thought Potvin was the best two way defensemen I've ever seen.
     
  13. SealsFan

    SealsFan Registered User

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    I think he means he rarely posts in the History section, but posts in the other sections of HFBoards.
     
  14. Big Phil

    Big Phil Registered User

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    Alright, let's get one thing straight here. If Bobby Orr is on the ice protecting a lead with a minute left you are pretty safe. Heck, Paul Coffey would be a guy I wouldn't be nervous with in that situation either, when the chips were down Coffey came through. The reason being is that these guys were smart hockey players. They wouldn't clear the puck up the middle, they would chip it off the boards if they had to. Smart plays.

    Lidstrom I felt was just so great positionally that he'd be a safe pick as well.

    So just so we know, Orr is still elite defensively, and I don't think we should forget this. Keeping the puck away from the other team and not turning it over in the defensive zone is still sound defensive play.

    But to isolate defense only? I like how someone mentioned Savard. That might just be my #1 pick to be honest. Savard would do a lot of subtle things to ensure the game wouldn't be tied. He's about as smart as anyone else too on the ice. I think Langway was better defensively as well since he focused on that nearly 100% of the time.
     
  15. Sentinel

    Sentinel Registered User

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    Potvin, Fetisov, Kasatonov, Konstantinov should all be mentioned.
     
  16. Habssince89

    Habssince89 Registered User

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    I meant on the history board haha
     
  17. Clown Baby*

    Clown Baby* Guest

    Que?
     
  18. Ed Wood

    Ed Wood Registered User

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    A lot of good players here but if I'm protecting a one goal lead in the last minute of the game I guarantee that Orr will be one of my two defensemen. Ideally he'd be paired with Potvin or Harvey.
     
  19. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    Seriously? Coffey?

    Yes to Langway.
     
  20. Clown Baby*

    Clown Baby* Guest

    Read much?

    He's simply pointing out that Coffey wouldn't be a liability while protecting a one-goal lead. He's not saying that Coffey was better than Orr defensively (I don't think anyone would sign up to make that argument.)
     
  21. Dennis Bonvie

    Dennis Bonvie Registered User

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    Watch hockey much?

    My point is that compared to anyone else mentioned in this thread, not to mention countless others, Coffey would indeed be a liability with a one goal lead.
     
  22. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    and i'll reiterate that his point is that compared to the vast majority of d-men ever, i.e., not just against the top ten defensive guys ever, coffey wouldn't be the liability that received opinion often suggests he would be.

    not sure why you're jumping down this throat, as you guys aren't talking about the same thing.
     
  23. thom

    thom Registered User

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    They asked Harry Sinden the famed gm of Bruins who would you put in if you had a goal lead; the answer was Ray Bourque. He was asked about great Bruin d. He says overall Orr was BETTER but not defensively....
     
    Last edited by moderator Killion: Oct 5, 2013
  24. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    Yes, that Sinden quote was posted earlier and in as much as I admire Ray Bourque, disagree with Harry Sinden on this one entirely. As a "pure Defenceman" then sure, that was Bourque, though he did have a deadly offensive edge to him but still. If youve got both on your bench you'd go with both in tandem, as a pair, a unit. Im not buying any arguments that Bourque was superior to Orr defensively which when combined with #4's offensive capabilities, well, lets just say Orr all the way, coming or going. Have people forgotten how in such instances Orr would rag the puck for a minute, three minutes even, like a Man playing Keep Away with boys? Dont recall seeing Ray Bourque doing that to any great extent.... not a big fan of Harry Sinden's nor of his opinions quite frankly.
     
  25. Boom Boom Bear

    Boom Boom Bear Registered User

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    yyyep, just coming here to say pretty much the same thing
    Potvin was a beast
    pretty much best i've ever seen at the position
    gap between Orr & Potvin overall isn't as far as some people think
     

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