How likely is this scenario involving Tavares and Nylander? Does it make sense?

[Keep Sorokin Me Babe]

Make no mistake, if Lou/Babcock had the opportunity to sign Tavares at the expense of allocating Nylander's cap space towards an equivalent dman, they would do it. Matthews/Tavares/Kadri is the best C core in the league.

Nylander's my favourite Leaf but the need for a top quality defenceman is unarguable. Assuming Nylander and Tavares are equal in value, you're essentially receiving a free top class defenceman while still maintaining that elite high end forward depth

 

[AppsSyl]

Thanks, but no thanks.

If you want to destroy something good, then that is an excellent first step to destroy this team.

How do you know Make-A-Deal-Lou will trade Nylander, and not M & M. That could weight heavily on a younger player. Especially since it would appear they want to be here, and are happy here.

Best plan right now, and it is rare to see in sports, but we do occasionally, is let them grow together.

Don't get me wrong. I really like Nylander, and there are very few instances I would consider parting with him or M&M. I also believe in letting the core grow together, but you are essentially getting double value in this scenario by getting both Tavares and the return for Nylander.

It is like the EDM deal Hall for Larsson. The trade wasn't actually just Hall for Larsson, it was Hall for Larsson + Lucic (mind you they went too far on term with him). Larsson's low cap hit allowed them to also sign Lucic, which they couldn't have done by keeping Hall. EDM is a better team for it.

This is essentially the scenario I am suggesting. Replace Hall in the deal with Nylander, Larsson with whatever the return for Nylander would be, and Tavares for Lucic in the deal.

 

[AppsSyl]

Make no mistake, if Lou/Babcock had the opportunity to sign Tavares at the expense of allocating Nylander's cap space towards an equivalent dman, they would do it. Matthews/Tavares/Kadri is the best C core in the league.

Nylander's my favourite Leaf but the need for a top quality defenceman is unarguable. Assuming Nylander and Tavares are equal in value, you're essentially receiving a free top class defenceman while still maintaining that elite high end forward depth

Thank you. You very clearly articulated the point I have been trying to make.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

John Tavares is in decline?

His past 3 seasons he's put up point totals of 86, 70, and 66 points. Now that doesn't mean he's washed up but it's not totally encouraging either, especially since Nylander only trailed Tavares by 5 points last year and could potentially be a centre himself in the future.

As for the OP Tavares will be making at least $10 million on his net contract. Is he really worth so much more than Willy who will probably command $7-$8 million and could play the same position? Not to mention we'd have Nylander's young and prime years. Tavares we'd just have a bit of his prime, and we could face an albatross contract situation from him. ESPECIALLY if the Leafs do as recommended in the OP and trade Nylander for a high end defenseman who will need to be paid too.

 

[Iapyi]

i really like nylander and think he will be a core piece on the team for years BUT to even pretend he is better then tavares is out and out ridiculous. can he ever be as good as tavares? i hope so but that is a steep hill to climb. a lot of maple leaf blue goggles in this thread.

as for the direct question in the op i would rather we didn't trade nylander and want us to keep this young group together as they grow into winning multiple stanley cups.

 

[Keep Sorokin Me Babe]

Thank you. You very clearly articulated the point I have been trying to make.

I understand people being hesitant to trade away Nylander/Marner for a defenceman since elite forward depth is what made the team so great last season, but if you had the opportunity to add a #1 dman AND still have 3 superstars at Forward, it's a no-brainer really

 

[TheProspector]

Why???????????

 

[AppsSyl]

His past 3 seasons he's put up point totals of 86, 70, and 66 points. Now that doesn't mean he's washed up but it's not totally encouraging either, especially since Nylander only trailed Tavares by 5 points last year and could potentially be a centre himself in the future.

As for the OP Tavares will be making at least $10 million on his net contract. Is he really worth so much more than Willy who will probably command $7-$8 million and could play the same position? Not to mention we'd have Nylander's young and prime years. Tavares we'd just have a bit of his prime, and we could face an albatross contract situation from him. ESPECIALLY if the Leafs do as recommended in the OP and trade Nylander for a high end defenseman who will need to be paid too.

I was thinking the target in a trade would be either some beginning an ELC (likely McAvoy+ or Chabot+ type of thing), or an established D of high value on a great contract (like Carolina's D: Slavin, Faulk, Pesce, or Lindholm, D.Hamilton, etc.).

 

[Kiwi]

Nothing is more frustrating than when people don't actually read the OP, especially the bolded and underlined parts.

This isn't a Tavares for Nylander trade.

Also, the cap hit between them would not be that signifcant.

What I was saying in the OP is:
1) We likely can't sign Tavares and keep all of the big 3.
2) So if we do sign Tavares for free, we have to trade one of them.
3) We would have Nylander and Tavares in year 1 of Tavares, because it would make the most sense to load up for that year and trade him in the offseason.
4) When we do have to trade Nylander, you would be targeting a young controllable asset that is elite, like Nylander, but not quite as proven or an affordable established asset(s) like one of Carolina's D.

The end result would be that you have both Tavares and the return for Nylander (his value in an asset/assets) for essentially Nylander.

We're going to sign Tavares as a UFA then trade Nylander for a defenseman and it's not going to be a significant cap issue?

Tavares UFA (10-11M)
Nylander RFA (7M)
Young top 4 defenseman (4-5M)

You may want to go and re-do your numbers

Or even better trade a 60 point rookie for a defensive prospect
Hard to see how something like that wouldn't blow up in our face

 

[PuckMagi]

You are not reading the post. You are not just getting Tavares, but also the return on Nylander.

But Tavares is also probably going to cost more.

An elite UFA in their prime is going to cost more than a RFA who has only really played 2 NHL seasons.

Also, the return for Nylander might not be that great if we can't take back any players with any significant salary.

Let's say we sign Nylander for 7x7... and we sign JT for 10x7. So we're already eating probably an extra $3 million. I personally think Nylander will also be the better player in a few years also.

In terms of the return for Nylander, we're not going get an elite defender on a big contract because we wont have the cap room. The only return we can get for Nylander is draft picks, prospects, and people on their ELC (though once the ELC expires, we're in cap trouble again and can't sign them long term).

We're basically going to be asking a team to eat $7 million in salary and to trade away their best prospect who they recently drafted, where they miss out on their ELC years. How many teams are going to go for this? Do you really think we could get a top 5 pick that someone just drafted maybe 1 or 2 years ago? So I don't think the return for Nylander will be as good as you think.

I like our big three too much to part ways with any of them. And we don't need to either. We just drafted the guy we needed anyways. Our team is pretty much set.

 

[Heart]

-Throw as much money to JT as possible on a one year deal.
-Win the cup in 2019.
- Sign all players to cap friendly deals in exchange for them to become part of a dynasty, have their name engraved many, many, many cups, become HOF'ers, have their jersey retired by the greatest hockey franchise ever, and a bronze statue in maple leaf square

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I understand what youte trying to say OP but patience. We're probably going to save 3 mill on Nylander compared to Tavares. We need that 3 mill extra to sign Gardiner and the big 3. If we trade for a Dman for Nylander and get Tavares we'd have to trade one of Brown/Kappy/Kadri and lose Gardiner at the same time.

BE confident that Liljegren is our future 1RHD. He'll be cheap and we can keep Gardiner and the big 3 happy.

 

[BlueBaron]

Thank you. You very clearly articulated the point I have been trying to make.

Your point is perfectly valid. Most of the responses that were against either did not understand what you were trying to convey or are simply too attached to the player to want to consider moving him.

I have considered myself how JT could create a huge asset like this. You can then flip Nylander for a top pairing D and as you say have one of the best 1-3 C in the league. It is worth considering on the face of it.

There are a lot of variables in play though.

Does JT want to sign here?
What would be the required money and term? What will be these things for Nylander?
What is the market right now for Nylander and what would he return.

I have my doubts about Nylander ever being equal to JT, I think there is a bit of optimistic homerism there. Assuming he does not, then no matter how you slice it your team is better so you have to consider it, but without knowing the answers to the above questions I do not see how you can make an intelligent decision. If JT wants 11 Mil? Nylander wants an 8 year 9 Mil deal? etc.

It is something we should look at but too soon to say if it would work the way we want.

 

[ConnorTO]

acquiring used up talent was the biggest obsession with this fan base

the minority report are those who want the maple leafs to mirror previous successful teams that drafted their main line up

the blackhawks
the penguins
the capitals
the panthers
the blue jackets ?
the oilers
the kings

 

[Mr Hockey]

 

[hotpaws]

John Tavares is in decline?

What do you believe is so funny ?

If we sign him as a ufa he'll 28 in his first season with us and 34 in his last . So yes I do believe he won't be as productive in the last few years of the deal as he is now or in his first few seasons of the contract .

 

[Kiwi]

What do you believe is so funny ?

If we sign him as a ufa he'll 28 in his first season with us and 34 in his last . So yes I do believe he won't be as productive in the last few years of the deal as he is now or in his first few seasons of the contract .

There's no guarantee he's going to score more points than Nylander next season either
The kid was scoring at a 70+ point clip the last third of the season including the playoffs

We manage to draft some potentially elite talent and a portion of the fan base can't wait to trade the bloody kid before he finishes his ELC

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'm not crazy about the idea. I'd rather try and bridge him and or Marner and bring in Tavares and deal with the cap situation down the road. Even that likely wouldn't work though, thats still going to be expensive. The only way I sign Tavares and trade Nylander is if someone is looking to do a Jones/Johansen type of swap. In other words, an elite young defender.

 

[deletethis]

Tavares' skating took awhile to come up to the necessary level. He'll lose some of that as he ages. I'd rather take my chances with Nylander. Nylander has the possibility of being everything Tavares is and more. Nylander might get priced out of town regardless in the future. We'll deal with that situation when it happens, hopefully after several seasons of team success.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Im not as quick to dismiss this idea as some of the others. But honestly the only way I pull the trigger on this would be if Nylander's negotiation goes horribly wrong. IE if he wants insane money, puts himself before the team, wants to be a #1 and not 'behind' Matthews etc. Basically it would be trading a potential problem for JT and some elite other piece. That piece would have to be a lot better than Hamilton though (I know you just put there for example)

To be clear I don't think there's a high likelihood the negotiation is going to go that way, but that would be the only reason Id consider trading. Matthews/Nylander/Kadri is a damn exciting group of C's too for less money......we develop our own D

 

[LeafSteel]

The premise of the OP is sound, but I would rather keep the younger, cheaper asset, then sign an older, more expensive asset.

As well, any top flight defence acquired by trading Nylander will need to get paid, even if it is a top prospect, right around the time we are signing Marner and Matthews.

Keep our Big 3, let someone else overpay Tavares, let's see what we have in Liljegren, and pray Doughty goes to UFA.

 

[taurine330]

I don't understand the hard-on for JT. Do you really have to talk about him for an year. He is not leaving Brooklyn.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

I'll pass we have our 1c and furthermore other centre depth

 

[al secord]

We've drafted elite talent on the front end and possibly an elite talent on D.

Let our own players figure it out. That's what good teams do.

 

[ACC1224]

So if you were offered:

Tavares and one of Slavin, Faulk, Pesce or Hanifin

for

Nylander

You wouldn't take that deal if it fits your cap?

Babcock would take that pretty quickly.
Most would.