How likely is this scenario involving Tavares and Nylander? Does it make sense?

[AppsSyl]

Much like the debate over Stamkos in his UFA year, people seem to be polarized about the idea of trying to sign John Tavares if he makes it to free agency.

This obviously hinges on Tavares wanting to sign here.

It is known by all that Tavares is an exceptional talent in his prime that plays the most desirable position (1C), but the points of contention seem to be that his deal will likely be 7 years and in the neighborhood of $9-$11 million AAV, which would be a large cap hit, and that it would make it difficult to sign and keep all of the big 3.

While I love the idea of having the big 3 for their entire careers as Maple Leafs, I can't help but wonder if we will/should take a run at Tavares.

There are very few scenarios that I would part with any of the big 3, but this one is intriguing to me, because of how heavily the value slants in our favour.

If a player of Tavares' calibre, that plays Centre that is his age is willing to sign, you can't pass up on the free asset. While signing him likely costs you Nylander, we have to look at it from the standpoint that you are basically getting Tavares + the return for Nylander, for Nylander, because you would not be able to sign Tavares otherwise. The return for Nylander would be a very significant piece, and likely a young controllable asset on ELC or a sweetheart contract, or a number of other assets.

The scenario as I see it would be that we sign Tavares and sign Nylander next offseason, keeping Nylander for the season icing probably one of the best forward corps the league has seen in a long time, and then management would pull the trigger on a deal involving Nylander in the offseason before Matthews and Marner's contracts kick in.

In all honestly how many people can truly say if it was a straight up trade that they wouldn't trade Nylander for Tavares + an asset/assets of Nylanders value.

Curious to hear other posters thoughts.

Click to read more...

 

[Anthrax442]

Nylander will be better than Tavares and JT is already used and damaged

 

[AppsSyl]

Nylander will be better than Tavares and JT is already used and damaged

The point is though you would not only be getting Tavares, but also the return for Nylander, because keeping all the big 3 would not allow you to sign Tavares in the first place.

An example for instance based on a rumored possible return for Nylander last year....

Sign Tavares....then Nylander is traded Dougie Hamilton.

You are getting Tavares + Hamilton for Nylander.

Obviously you would have to look at a return for Nylander that fits the cap, so probably a younger high end asset on ELC.

 

[Jeypic]

No thanks. Whoever we traded nylander for would likely cost an equal cap hit. Which would be unaffordable. This should be moved to trade rumours and free agent signings anyways. We don't need 100 Tavares threads in the next year

 

[WilliamNylander]

I would not give up Nylander for Tavares.

I have a very short list that involves a few D men. Thats it. I can't see Leafs management doing it either, Matthews Nylander Marner will be one of the best offensive cores for a long long time.

 

[AppsSyl]

No thanks. Whoever we traded nylander for would likely cost an equal cap hit. Which would be unaffordable. This should be moved to trade rumours and free agent signings anyways. We don't need 100 Tavares threads in the next year

Not necessarily. For instance something around a player like Clayton Keller. He has similar upside, but Nylander is more proven, but Keller would be on an ELC, which is the trade off for Nylander being more proven at this point.
Or something around one of Carolina's D who are all signed to really affordable deals that could fit in a cap with the addition of Tavares.

 

[AppsSyl]

I would not give up Nylander for Tavares.

I have a very short list that involves a few D men. Thats it. I can't see Leafs management doing it either, Matthews Nylander Marner will be one of the best offensive cores for a long long time.

You are not reading the post. You are not just getting Tavares, but also the return on Nylander.

 

[Menzinger]

Personally I'm not overly interested in the idea, would rather stay centred on the team's current path.

Honestly I won't be surprised if Nylander is better than Tavares next season. And then factor in Nylander could be signed around 7 million, Vs Tavares who could be getting as much as 10-11 million.

Tavares has been declining for three seasons in a row and isn't going to be able to live up to whatever massive deals he gets next.

Like Stamkos, I'd expect JT to resign with his home drafted team anyways.

 

[AppsSyl]

Personally I'm not overly interested in the idea, would rather stay centred on the team's current path.

Honestly I won't be surprised if Nylander is better than Tavares next season. And then factor in Nylander could be signed around 7 million, Vs Tavares who could be getting as much as 10-11 million.

Tavares has been declining for three seasons in a row and isn't going to be able to live up to whatever massive deals he gets next.

Like Stamkos, I'd expect JT to resign with his home drafted team anyways.

So if you were offered:

Tavares and one of Slavin, Faulk, Pesce or Hanifin

for

Nylander

You wouldn't take that deal if it fits your cap?

 

[Jeypic]

Not necessarily. For instance something around a player like Clayton Keller. He has similar upside, but Nylander is more proven, but Keller would be on an ELC, which is the trade off for Nylander being more proven at this point.
Or something around one of Carolina's D who are all signed to really affordable deals that could fit in a cap with the addition of Tavares.

So who would we trade? Keller or Reilly? Because eventually Tavares term and cost and age just doesn't make sense...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

We won't need tavares if some of our prospects pan put. Defense is our need also. Build a defense thats top third in the league over a couple years and we are perennial contenders. Defense,defense, defense....

Doesn't even make any sense talking tavares.

 

[Menzinger]

So if you were offered:

Tavares and one of Slavin, Faulk, Pesce or Hanifin

for

Nylander

You wouldn't take that deal if it fits your cap?

I don't think it necessarily it helps the Leafs cap situation any more.

Factor in you're potentially paying tavares more than 2-4 million more than Nylander and then you have to pay that D man.

And as for some of those options, I definitely wouldn't trade Nylander for a guy like say Hanifin whose at the moment nothing more than a bottom pairing NHLer.

 

[AppsSyl]

So who would we trade? Keller or Reilly? Because eventually Tavares term and cost and age just doesn't make sense...

We won't need tavares if some of our prospects pan put. Defense is our need also. Build a defense thats top third in the league over a couple years and we are perennial contenders. Defense,defense, defense....

Doesn't even make any sense talking tavares.

What I am trying to say is if Tavares goes to UFA and wants to come here, you are getting a free 1C that is only 27.

The cap hit between he and Nylander is likely $1.5-3 million, so it is not that much difference cap wise (especially with a cap likely increase it is not that big of a deal).

You are also getting the return for Nylander, which would be very significant, and also having him for a year with Tavares before you would need to move him.

 

[34]

No way Toronto trades Nylander for Tavares. Willy has more upside than JT.

Nylander is a keeper who you build a dynasty around.

 

[senor martinez]

Personally I'm not overly interested in the idea, would rather stay centred on the team's current path.

Honestly I won't be surprised if Nylander is better than Tavares next season. And then factor in Nylander could be signed around 7 million, Vs Tavares who could be getting as much as 10-11 million.

Tavares has been declining for three seasons in a row and isn't going to be able to live up to whatever massive deals he gets next.

Like Stamkos, I'd expect JT to resign with his home drafted team anyways.

Me neither. That motherf is so fast on them skates. He can treally do it all we've seen it last season already. He is so talented and fast offensively.

 

[Marshy]

Me neither. That motherf is so fast on them skates. He can treally do it all we've seen it last season already. He is so talented and fast offensively.

Not treally fast on backcheck though

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Willy is not a trade piece. Coming on to this season he might be one of the most under rated players in the league. Shot, skating, passing and puck skills as good as elite players. He played fourth line and jumped all over the lineup last year and was a threat no matter where he played. Not complaining about it because babs wanted defensive detail from him so that cool.

Willy is as much a vital core puece as Marner and close but no cigar on Matthews. He dominated for sweden at the championships and took gold and MVP. He is the second best player on the team right now behind only some guy i forget hos name...

Trading willy talk while its still being built up is counter productive. That guy dominated teams derense last year on zone entries in a elite way. I think he will be close to point a game this year. We need to get younger with regards to bozak and Jvr and if we do that we become better defensively!

Jvr and Bozak are the players needing be tendered along.

 

[Kiwi]

Much like the debate over Stamkos in his UFA year, people seem to be polarized about the idea of trying to sign John Tavares if he makes it to free agency.

This obviously hinges on Tavares wanting to sign here.

It is known by all that Tavares is an exceptional talent in his prime that plays the most desirable position (1C), but the points of contention seem to be that his deal will likely be 7 years and in the neighborhood of $9-$11 million AAV, which would be a large cap hit, and that it would make it difficult to sign and keep all of the big 3.

While I love the idea of having the big 3 for their entire careers as Maple Leafs, I can't help but wonder if we will/should take a run at Tavares.

There are very few scenarios that I would part with any of the big 3, but this one is intriguing to me, because of how heavily the value slants in our favour.

If a player of Tavares' calibre, that plays Centre that is his age is willing to sign, you can't pass up on the free asset. While signing him likely costs you Nylander, we have to look at it from the standpoint that you are basically getting Tavares + the return for Nylander, for Nylander, because you would not be able to sign Tavares otherwise. The return for Nylander would be a very significant piece, and likely a young controllable asset on ELC or a sweetheart contract, or a number of other assets.

The scenario as I see it would be that we sign Tavares and sign Nylander next offseason, keeping Nylander for the season icing probably one of the best forward corps the league has seen in a long time, and then management would pull the trigger on a deal involving Nylander in the offseason before Matthews and Marner's contracts kick in.

In all honestly how many people can truly say if it was a straight up trade that they wouldn't trade Nylander for Tavares + an asset/assets of Nylanders value.

Curious to hear other posters thoughts.

Why are we trading and outstanding young talent under team control for potentially the next decade With cost control so that we can overpay a guy who has already played his best year's for another franchise?

Nothing frustrates me more than the Tavares is "free" narrative
Cap space is the most valuable commodity in the NHL and he's going to eat a ton of it playing a position we've already got covered

When are people going to get over the "bring the local boy home to save us" narrative
I could understand it when we sucked but we've drafted our own superstars and it still won't ******* die

 

[Menzinger]

Willy is not a trade piece. Coming on to this season he might be one of the most under rated players in the league. Shot, skating, passing and puck skills as good as elite players. He played fourth line and jumped all over the lineup last year and was a threat no matter where he played. Not complaining about it because babs wanted defensive detail from him so that cool.

Willy is as much a vital core puece as Marner and close but no cigar on Matthews. He dominated for sweden at the championships and took gold and MVP. He is the second best player on the team right now behind only some guy i forget hos name...

Trading willy talk while its still being built up is counter productive. That guy dominated teams derense last year on zone entries in a elite way. I think he will be close to point a game this year. We need to get younger with regards to bozak and Jvr and if we do that we become better defensively!

Jvr and Bozak are the players needing be tendered along.

I think if one of Nylander or Marner had a decent but not amazing season (is outting up say 40 points) it could be in the realm of possibility that such a trade could happen.

But after seeing each of them put up 60ish point seasons, essentially producing like first liners as rookies, the trade ship has long sailed. That type scoring pace would be impressive if they were 1st overall draft picks....

 

[hotpaws]

No interest in giving JT 10m to be our 2nd line center as well as paying him while he's in decline .

Don't understand this obsession over signing every big name ufa , especially since it doesn't fill a need .

At least with the envitable Doughty threads next summer he actually fills a void .

 

[AppsSyl]

Why are we trading and outstanding young talent under team control for potentially the next decade With cost control so that we can overpay a guy who has already played his best year's for another franchise?

Nothing frustrates me more than the Tavares is "free" narrative
Cap space is the most valuable commodity in the NHL and he's going to eat a ton of it playing a position we've already got covered

When are people going to get over the "bring the local boy home to save us" narrative
I could understand it when we sucked but we've drafted our own superstars and it still won't ******* die

Nothing is more frustrating than when people don't actually read the OP, especially the bolded and underlined parts.

This isn't a Tavares for Nylander trade.

Also, the cap hit between them would not be that signifcant.

What I was saying in the OP is:
1) We likely can't sign Tavares and keep all of the big 3.
2) So if we do sign Tavares for free, we have to trade one of them.
3) We would have Nylander and Tavares in year 1 of Tavares, because it would make the most sense to load up for that year and trade him in the offseason.
4) When we do have to trade Nylander, you would be targeting a young controllable asset that is elite, like Nylander, but not quite as proven or an affordable established asset(s) like one of Carolina's D.

The end result would be that you have both Tavares and the return for Nylander (his value in an asset/assets) for essentially Nylander.

 

[Mr Hockey]

No interest in giving JT 10m to be our 2nd line center as well as paying him while he's in decline .

Don't understand this obsession over signing every big name ufa , especially since it doesn't fill a need .

At least with the envitable Doughty threads next summer he actually fills a void .

John Tavares is in decline?

 

[Muston Atthews]

I'd trade marner before Nylander and I wouldn't trade Marner

 

[AppsSyl]

No interest in giving JT 10m to be our 2nd line center as well as paying him while he's in decline .

Don't understand this obsession over signing every big name ufa , especially since it doesn't fill a need .

At least with the envitable Doughty threads next summer he actually fills a void .

The return (young controllable player on ELC who fills need and has equal value to Nylander) you would get for Nylander would fill the need, and you also have Tavares, because he was a UFA.

 

[Polaris1010]

The scenario as I see it would be that we sign Tavares and sign Nylander next offseason, keeping Nylander for the season icing probably one of the best forward corps the league has seen in a long time, and then management would pull the trigger on a deal involving Nylander in the offseason before Matthews and Marner's contracts kick in.

Thanks, but no thanks.

If you want to destroy something good, then that is an excellent first step to destroy this team.

How do you know Make-A-Deal-Lou will trade Nylander, and not M & M. That could weight heavily on a younger player. Especially since it would appear they want to be here, and are happy here.

Best plan right now, and it is rare to see in sports, but we do occasionally, is let them grow together.