How good would the Wings be with Semin and Carle?

[PullHard]

If I'm remembering right, Gleason took Ott's wife from him. And since I hate Ott, that's pretty awesome. So I'd be down with Gleason!

haha, never knew that. Awesome. I just think he brings a unique skill set, as he is a little bit small in terms of a Dman, but still brings that rugged game. RH shot, too. Would've preferred to have him here rubbing off on Lashoff and Smith rather than Quincey, that is for sure.

 

[pdd]

Wish we would've overpaid for Gleason last year before Carolina extended him. Should've sent the 1st we used on Quincey their way instead.

Zunich, Luongo, Howe, Hatcher, Rafalski, and then Gleason?

That's a lot of defensemen from the area that you want on this team.

We already have had enough forwards in guys like Carson, Knuble, Abdelkader, Kevin Miller, Drew Miller, Conner, Cummins, Modano, and more.

Maybe we could have had them send Larose while they were at it?

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Carle? Really? I mean, if you want a marginal improvement over Quincey for a lot more money, I guess....

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Just imagine how much better Datsyuk would be with Hudler on his wing!

Imagine how much better the line would be, if it was Hudler instead of Cleary cleary.

 

[RayMoonDoh]

He's basically a living legend of Chuck Norris proportions.

Ive heard in France he is called La Renard, and is hunted with only his cunning to protect him

 

[PullHard]

Zunich, Luongo, Howe, Hatcher, Rafalski, and then Gleason?

That's a lot of defensemen from the area that you want on this team.

We already have had enough forwards in guys like Carson, Knuble, Abdelkader, Kevin Miller, Drew Miller, Conner, Cummins, Modano, and more.

Maybe we could have had them send Larose while they were at it?

Would rather Rosey over Cleary & Miller, so if we were to somehow trade/waive one of them in the meantime, yeah, I would've liked that. He is also a RH shot IIRC. Love me some righties.

 

[Frk It]

But, Sammy....

Sammy is a right-handed shoot-first player, and Semin is a right-handed shoot-first player. It's kind of like saying a Suzuki is a type of car, and so is a Ferrari. They do the same type of thing, but at different levels. I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain which player is which car in this analogy.

 

[Frk It]

Imagine how much better the line would be, if it was Hudler instead of Cleary cleary.

Imagine how much better the line would be if Tatar or Nyquist were on his wing over Cleary?

and we still have those guys...

 

[ProPAIN]

Although I think Semin would have been much better on Datsyuk's wing than Bertuzzi or Cleary (duh), they obviously didn't want to acquire him. Money wasn't an issue, they probably know something we don't and didn't want to deal with any off ice issues.

 

[aar000n]

Just imagine how much better Datsyuk would be with Hudler on his wing!

sighs Cleary is our whipping boy this year. Hudler had his chance and took money and a fan base that support him the selfish jerk.

 

[Tomas W]

He needs to play before I can decide what's up there. I still think he could contribute, but ya know, he's only been on the ice for 26 minutes so it's not a great sample size.

Sammy is most likely aquired for his right handed shot. BUT as I predicted, he is injured. He has been so much injured the latest years, that I do not trust him to stay healthy long when he come back.

You can think what you want about Samuelsson, he will still be a upgrade from Cleary when he's able to play. Again though, I think Sammy is very injury prone at this point.

Semin would obviously be great to have.

 

[Atas2000]

Dats and Syomin would be deadly. I think Holland tries to make something out of nothing way to much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7irxUPYzVJg

 

[Henkka]

I partially agree with you -- regarding Carle's contract. Also not to thrilled with Semin's salary.

On the other hand, Alex Semin would have helped this team enormously.

That salary isn't really very big.

Caphit is 7 million, but it was clever move from Hurricanes management to sign him for a 1-year-deal just few days before the lockout. They knew for sure the lockout is coming, and quite sure they knew that is lasts long and reduces 1-season salaries.

Semin is getting a reduced salary, only ~3.85 million at this season. So you deal only with the high caphit for one season, what is quite meaningless in this case.

It was a good move, it will be interesting to see will Semin make an extension or hit again for free agency.

 

[RedMenace]

Just imagine how much better Datsyuk would be with Hudler on his wing!

Snark aside, the current top-6 would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better with Hudler, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Just remember, you started it.

Also, I'm no fan of Franzen, but I'd take Franzen over Semin any day of the week:

Johan Franzen @ $3.9m: 12GP; 3g, 6a, +4

vs.

Alexander Semin @ $7m: 10GP; 2g, 5a, +6

... and just for effect:

vs.

Damien Brunner @ $1.35m: 12GP; 6g, 3a, +3

Carolina: 5-4-1; 11 points, 9th in the East

Detroit: 7-4-1; 15 points, 5th in the West

You guys can have all the Semin you want, but I'll pass.

As far as Carle goes, yeah he'd been nice, but OP makes it sound like Holland didn't even try to get him. What the **** is with all these people assuming Holland just watched free agents walk past his window and did nothing? Do you guys have some sort of ****ing brain tap on Holland? Do you know what he's thinking or doing? Do you have any inside knowledge that he just let Carle "get away?" What if Carle had no desire to play in Detroit? What if he wanted to, you know, stay in the Eastern Conference?

**** me, some of you people are getting on my damned nerves with all of this "ZOMG I KNOW EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND IN OTHER PEOPLES' HEADS LOLOLOL" ********. If you're so great at being a GM and FORCING players to sign in Detroit at massive discounts -- or, ****, AT ALL, -- why aren't you applying for GM jobs? What are you doing posting on message boards claiming that a man with credentials you'll never even dream of sniffing is sitting on his hands doing nothing instead of making the Red Wings THE ULTIMATE CHAMPIONS OF THE WORLD or whatever it is you think they should be?

What's that? You don't have any proof of your claims? Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Snark aside, the current top-6 would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better with Hudler, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Just remember, you started it.

Also, I'm no fan of Franzen, but I'd take Franzen over Semin any day of the week:

Johan Franzen @ $3.9m: 12GP; 3g, 6a, +4

vs.

Alexander Semin @ $7m: 10GP; 2g, 5a, +6

... and just for effect:

vs.

Damien Brunner @ $1.35m: 12GP; 6g, 3a, +3

Carolina: 5-4-1; 11 points, 9th in the East

Detroit: 7-4-1; 15 points, 5th in the West

You guys can have all the Semin you want, but I'll pass.

As far as Carle goes, yeah he'd been nice, but OP makes it sound like Holland didn't even try to get him. What the **** is with all these people assuming Holland just watched free agents walk past his window and did nothing? Do you guys have some sort of ****ing brain tap on Holland? Do you know what he's thinking or doing? Do you have any inside knowledge that he just let Carle "get away?" What if Carle had no desire to play in Detroit? What if he wanted to, you know, stay in the Eastern Conference?

**** me, some of you people are getting on my damned nerves with all of this "ZOMG I KNOW EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND IN OTHER PEOPLES' HEADS LOLOLOL" ********. If you're so great at being a GM and FORCING players to sign in Detroit at massive discounts -- or, ****, AT ALL, -- why aren't you applying for GM jobs? What are you doing posting on message boards claiming that a man with credentials you'll never even dream of sniffing is sitting on his hands doing nothing instead of making the Red Wings THE ULTIMATE CHAMPIONS OF THE WORLD or whatever it is you think they should be?

What's that? You don't have any proof of your claims? Yeah, that's what I thought.

So you'd pass on a $7 million one-year deal for a Russian sniper with arguably the best wrister in the NHL to play alongside Datsyuk? Not to mention we have the cap-space and he could've replaced Cleary alongside Pavs and Fil. He's exactly what that line needs.

What's up with you KH lovers and your condescending tone? Nobody said "ZOMG" and nobody said they know everything that goes on behind closed doors. We don't apply for GM jobs because we obviously aren't good enough and don't have the credentials, but we can still have an opinion because, well, that's the point of this forum. And now your just making things up, nobody said try to sign Semin or Carle at a discount price because they would want to play in Detroit. I don't hate KH and I'm still a supporter for now, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize him.

I'm seriously tired of you guys and your condescending tone. If you disagree with me and others and believe that KH is making the right moves then go ahead and talk all about it all you want. But don't put false words in our mouth. You guys sound like 11 year-olds with your condescending overreactions to every KH criticism.

 

[PullHard]

Snark aside, the current top-6 would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better with Hudler, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Just remember, you started it.

Also, I'm no fan of Franzen, but I'd take Franzen over Semin any day of the week:

Johan Franzen @ $3.9m: 12GP; 3g, 6a, +4

vs.

Alexander Semin @ $7m: 10GP; 2g, 5a, +6

... and just for effect:

vs.

Damien Brunner @ $1.35m: 12GP; 6g, 3a, +3

Carolina: 5-4-1; 11 points, 9th in the East

Detroit: 7-4-1; 15 points, 5th in the West

You guys can have all the Semin you want, but I'll pass.

As far as Carle goes, yeah he'd been nice, but OP makes it sound like Holland didn't even try to get him. What the **** is with all these people assuming Holland just watched free agents walk past his window and did nothing? Do you guys have some sort of ****ing brain tap on Holland? Do you know what he's thinking or doing? Do you have any inside knowledge that he just let Carle "get away?" What if Carle had no desire to play in Detroit? What if he wanted to, you know, stay in the Eastern Conference?

**** me, some of you people are getting on my damned nerves with all of this "ZOMG I KNOW EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND IN OTHER PEOPLES' HEADS LOLOLOL" ********. If you're so great at being a GM and FORCING players to sign in Detroit at massive discounts -- or, ****, AT ALL, -- why aren't you applying for GM jobs? What are you doing posting on message boards claiming that a man with credentials you'll never even dream of sniffing is sitting on his hands doing nothing instead of making the Red Wings THE ULTIMATE CHAMPIONS OF THE WORLD or whatever it is you think they should be?

What's that? You don't have any proof of your claims? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Sorry for posting my opinion on a message board for fans. lol, good post

 

[RedMenace]

Sorry for posting my opinion on a message board for fans. lol, good post

What the actual **** are you on about? Are you the OP? Did you make "factual" claims based on absolutely no information? Was my post directed at you?

I don't think so.

Did I say ANYWHERE in my post that someone else having an OPINION was wrong? Nope.

So you'd pass on a $7 million one-year deal for a Russian sniper with arguably the best wrister in the NHL to play alongside Datsyuk? Not to mention we have the cap-space and he could've replaced Cleary alongside Pavs and Fil. He's exactly what that line needs.

Yes, I would -- but it's cool, just look at the potential positives and ignore the potential negatives.

What's up with you KH lovers and your condescending tone? Nobody said "ZOMG" and nobody said they know everything that goes on behind closed doors. We don't apply for GM jobs because we obviously aren't good enough and don't have the credentials, but we can still have an opinion because, well, that's the point of this forum. And now your just making things up, nobody said try to sign Semin or Carle at a discount price because they would want to play in Detroit. I don't hate KH and I'm still a supporter for now, but that doesn't mean I can't criticize him.

Jesus. Tapdancing. Christ. Are you serious? Holland "lover?" Perhaps you need to take a look back at some of my posts and, you know, READ them. I am not a Holland "lover," and I'm not a Holland "hater." What I do not believe in, however, is making grand assumptions that one knows what goes on behind closed doors, which is what the OP, and many others, have done.

And I guess some people don't understand hyperbole (overstating something for effect) and figurative use of language. I'm sorry, from now on I'll make sure everything I ever say is deadly serious and literal.

I'm seriously tired of you guys and your condescending tone. If you disagree with me and others and believe that KH is making the right moves then go ahead and talk all about it all you want. But don't put false words in our mouth. You guys sound like 11 year-olds with your condescending overreactions to every KH criticism.

Again, what? You need to go back and READ. MY. ****ING. POST. If you want to respond to what I typed, feel free, but you're making yourself look foolish by straying WAAAAAAY off topic. I don't want to be too condescending, but let me break it down for you here:

1) I'm all for someone having a differing OPINION, but where I draw the line is when people say things like "Holland didn't even try/missed the boat/is purposefully running this team into the ground/is the worst GM in all of sports" with no basis in fact. (oops, sorry, that wasn't a totally serious and literal statement -- I'll try harder next time)

2) I never once attributed "false words" to anyone. Again, go back and read what I wrote. Tell me where I attributed false words to anyone specifically. Please, no, I'll wait.

The only people who look like 11 year olds are the ones who can't read, then get all defensive due to said lack of reading.

 

[PullHard]

What the actual **** are you on about? Are you the OP? Did you make "factual" claims based on absolutely no information? Was my post directed at you?

I don't think so.

Did I say ANYWHERE in my post that someone else having an OPINION was wrong? Nope.

I took your post as a universal statement against nearly all of us on the Wings board. We all have imaginations, and are disappointed when Kenny doesn't land the guy(s) we want. A lot of the time it seems like he doesn't have interest in the players, either. The Wings were public about not going after Semin. So you can understand some posters disappointment with that. Yes, Brunner has been great and only a fraction of the cost, but he was far from a sure thing. I'd rather have Semin at $7M for 1 year than Samuelsson at $3M for 2 years. Who cares about how much he is making? We have that much room.

I was just awestruck at your post because, of course we don't know what goes on. We are fans, we just bicker and chest bump online about crap that is out of our control. I don't know what you're expecting to find on here if not "damn, GM/coach/player/team dropped the ball/ made a mistake!" or "damn, GM/coach/player/team was awesome! Great effort!" That is the gist of all posts on team boards.

 

[RedMenace]

I took your post as a universal statement against nearly all of us on the Wings board. We all have imaginations, and are disappointed when Kenny doesn't land the guy(s) we want. A lot of the time it seems like he doesn't have interest in the players, either. The Wings were public about not going after Semin. So you can understand some posters disappointment with that. Yes, Brunner has been great and only a fraction of the cost, but he was far from a sure thing. I'd rather have Semin at $7M for 1 year than Samuelsson at $3M for 2 years. Who cares about how much he is making? We have that much room.

I apologize for that, but my post was not meant as a blanket statement, and I thought it was fairly clear. I'm just as disappointed as anyone that the Wings didn't land a major UFA or make a trade, but I'm not going to sit here and accuse Holland of doing nothing, let alone on purpose.

Honestly, I'd rather have a moldy rock for $3m than Samuelsson, but Holland obviously had no interest in Semin at $7m for whatever reason, and Samuelsson was a fallback plan. *shudder* I can't begin to know why Semin was a non-starter, so I won't, which is more than can be said for those here who claim otherwise.

I was just awestruck at your post because, of course we don't know what goes on. We are fans, we just bicker and chest bump online about crap that is out of our control. I don't know what you're expecting to find on here if not "damn, GM/coach/player/team dropped the ball/ made a mistake!" or "damn, GM/coach/player/team was awesome! Great effort!" That is the gist of all posts on team boards.

The problem is that there are some people who claim that Holland is incompetent because he couldn't or didn't land Suter/Parise/Nash/Semin/Carle/Ellerby or isn't playing the kids, which, in my opinion, is ridiculous. Of course criticism is warranted in some cases, but claiming that Holland didn't do something on purpose when there's no way to know otherwise is simply asinine (not saying you are doing that, by the way).

That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Brick Top]

Neither player would move us from playoff team up to contender status. Carle is an okay #2/#3 dman, he's being paid #1 type money, I'd rather stay away from him.

Upgrade that description from okay to good, and we've already got that guy in Kronwall, don't think we need 2 of those types on the roster. I'd rather KH find a way to use that kind of cap space or more on an true #1 instead of a guy at Carle's playing level. Ftr, I do think Kronner is a better player and I'd rather have him than Carle at their salaries.

I have no clue if Holland ever seriously went after Semin, but I think Brunner took the lineup spot that would have gone to Semin anyway. KH seems to really like this group of guys, for better or worse in some cases, and I don't think he was ready to cast both Bert and Cleary permanently out of the top 6 so the Nose and Semin could play on the wings for Z and D.

The offense would certainly be more dangerous with shooters like Brunner, Semin and Franzen out there with playmakers like Z, D and Flip, but I don't see Kenny shaking up the roster enough to open up that extra spot in the top 6.

 

[PullHard]

I apologize for that, but my post was not meant as a blanket statement, and I thought it was fairly clear. I'm just as disappointed as anyone that the Wings didn't land a major UFA or make a trade, but I'm not going to sit here and accuse Holland of doing nothing, let alone on purpose.

Honestly, I'd rather have a moldy rock for $3m than Samuelsson, but Holland obviously had no interest in Semin at $7m for whatever reason, and Samuelsson was a fallback plan. *shudder* I can't begin to know why Semin was a non-starter, so I won't, which is more than can be said for those here who claim otherwise.



The problem is that there are some people who claim that Holland is incompetent because he couldn't or didn't land Suter/Parise/Nash/Semin/Carle/Ellerby or isn't playing the kids, which, in my opinion, is ridiculous. Of course criticism is warranted in some cases, but claiming that Holland didn't do something on purpose when there's no way to know otherwise is simply asinine (not saying you are doing that, by the way).

That's the point I'm trying to make.

Oh ok, very fair points. The only serious problem I have with any of Kenny's decisions is that he is signing and extending guys like Samuelsson and Bertuzzi. While Bertuzzi understandably adds size/ an edge to our top 2 lines, Samuelsson seems really unnecessary to me when we have guys like Mursak and Eaves sitting in the pressbox and Nyquist and Tatar more than ready to adjust to the NHL. I understand Samuelsson is a serviceable guy still, but he seems redundant and unneeded, IMO. I can't complain about depth, but it seems like we should've been hard after another Dman instead of forward, even at the time. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and it is easy to say it now, but I felt the same way then, too. At the end of the day Kenny is one of the very best, and I trust his judgement over basically anyone in the entire hockey world. I only have problems with minute parts of the roster, and generally can at least understand why he does the things he does, even if I'm not 100% on board with that decision.

I can never fault him for not landing a big UFA or trade, I know he nibbles and ponders on it, but I'd rather him be patient than have a roster turn over of 25% every year like Philly or whoever.

 

[Tomas W]

Oh ok, very fair points. The only serious problem I have with any of Kenny's decisions is that he is signing and extending guys like Samuelsson and Bertuzzi. While Bertuzzi understandably adds size/ an edge to our top 2 lines, Samuelsson seems really unnecessary to me when we have guys like Mursak and Eaves sitting in the pressbox and Nyquist and Tatar more than ready to adjust to the NHL. I understand Samuelsson is a serviceable guy still, but he seems redundant and unneeded, IMO. I can't complain about depth, but it seems like we should've been hard after another Dman instead of forward, even at the time. Of course hindsight is 20/20 and it is easy to say it now, but I felt the same way then, too. At the end of the day Kenny is one of the very best, and I trust his judgement over basically anyone in the entire hockey world. I only have problems with minute parts of the roster, and generally can at least understand why he does the things he does, even if I'm not 100% on board with that decision.

I can never fault him for not landing a big UFA or trade, I know he nibbles and ponders on it, but I'd rather him be patient than have a roster turn over of 25% every year like Philly or whoever.

He is a righty.

 

[PullHard]

He is a righty.

Very true, but signing Tootoo and Brunner helped in that area. As I said:

I only have problems with minute parts of the roster, and generally can at least understand why he does the things he does, even if I'm not 100% on board with that decision.

I get that he is a righty and has played some PP minutes around the league (and for us) before. If Brunner flopped he would've come in handy. I honestly don't know if I wouldn't have rather tried Eaves over him, though. But it isn't up to me.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I'm not big on Carle at his deal.
Would I take Carle at 6M over Quincey at 4? Hell yeah.

However, I think it's pretty fair to assume the Wings did NOT try to sign Carle.

They had big targets (Suter/Parise)
And medium targets (Sammy and Salo)
And smaller targets (Tootoo and Gustavsson).

I don't it's very safe to assume that Holland did not attempt to sign Carle while he had a giant offer out on Suter.

I think we would have been better off -- and I said so before July 1, going for Wideman/Semin instead of Suter/Parise.

#1 -- We probably could have landed them.
#2 -- Their contracts wouldn't kill us in 10 years.

Would it make us cup contender? Not sure. But we'd be better off today.

Especially with Wideman.

I'm not too keen on the idea of Semin getting $7M. But the notion that Brunner is better than Semin is a joke.
Despite Semin's rep, he's actually a very good two-way hockey player.
Brunner, despite all the accolades, hasn't show me much other than that he likes to shoot the puck. Until yesterday, I hadn't seen a lick of defense. He's not a poor skater. But he hasn't show the speed that was advertised earlier. He's not good at all on the boards.

Besides... it's not Semin vs Brunner. It's Semin vs Sammy.

My opinion then was, don't bother with middle of the road free agents. Not when you've got all these kids waiting for a chance to show they belong.

And Holland went and signed mediocre crap like Sammy. And paid him fairly well. And for two ****ing years.

 

[TatarTangle]

Still wouldn't be good enough to win the Stanley Cup. STL, SJ and Nashville are still to physical for the Wings to win a seven game series against them.

Chicago is just flat-out better than everyone in the league.