How Far Away Is Ryan O'Reilly From The Big 3 Two-Way C's?

[xxreact9]

Kesler is the best 2 way forward right now

Liking this shout out. Selke nominee last year (along with Bergeron, Kopitar) but on pace for about 70 points, far more than any of them.

If you want to go with the "best offensive player who is in Selke contention" definition of "two-way forward"..... Kesler is the #1 right now.

 

[2advanced4u]

Actually, the top two-way guys are more along the lines of Crosby, McDavid, Tavares, Benn, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Malkin, etc.

I don't know why, how, why, or why, did I mention why... "two-way forward" has somehow evolved into meaning "best defensive forward who can also play a bit of offense too".

The phrase "best two-way forward" simply refers to the best forward when factoring in both offense and defense. That is STILL Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid, not Patrice Bergeron. Not even anywhere nearly close. Yes Patrice may be slightly better defensively, but he nowhere near makes up for it offensively thus being a worse two-way player. Get it?

um no

two way forward means you are both good at offense AND defense

you're thinking of overall goodness of players

Crosby is not good defensively and is still the best player in the world. doesn't mean he is a two way player.

 

[El Travo]

um no

two way forward means you are both good at offense AND defense

you're thinking of overall goodness of players

Crosby is not good defensively and is still the best player in the world. doesn't mean he is a two way player.

Based on what, exactly?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I thought he was well on his way last year before he got hurt (or was that the previous season? pretty sure it was last year). He played more minutes/game than any other forward too, Kopi was 2nd. Off the top of my head so I might be off by a slot or two.

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

Actually, the top two-way guys are more along the lines of Crosby, McDavid, Tavares, Benn, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Malkin, etc.

I don't know why, how, why, or why, did I mention why... "two-way forward" has somehow evolved into meaning "best defensive forward who can also play a bit of offense too".

The phrase "best two-way forward" simply refers to the best forward when factoring in both offense and defense. That is STILL Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid, not Patrice Bergeron. Not even anywhere nearly close. Yes Patrice may be slightly better defensively, but he nowhere near makes up for it offensively thus being a worse two-way player. Get it?

Well when the thread title says 2-way, but op names top 3 selke candidates..

Overall probably Kesler this year so far, Selke defence while on pace for 70+ points

 

[2advanced4u]

Based on what, exactly?

being a penguins fan for a long time, and his defensive metrics have never been good.

he is not bad defensively, he is above average, but not "good"

 

[AustonsNostrils]

As a Sabres fan I watch every game he plays and he is amazing to watch, never seen a player work as hard and as smart, he's a human border collie, almost as hairy. He's got some nifty moves too, would have more points but he's just not a natural goal scorer. His backhand is elite. I don't know his takeaway stats but he strips a ton of pucks and picks off many clear outs. Also amazing is I've never seen him really lay a bodycheck on anybody.

I see a lot of ROR in Bo Horvat.

 

[The Kingslayer]

None of them are better than Ryan Kessler right now. Dude is going to win the Selke if he stays healthy.

 

[mariolemieux66]

The big 3 being Toews, Bergeron and Kopitar...and we're talking about right now, not career.

Is ROR close to being on par with those other guys as a player?

Age and playing a lots of hockey seemed to have caught up to them

 

[JaegerDice]

It's more like an endless barrage of "I told you so" to the completely misinformed fans who constantly dub him as a top-5 player in the league.

Simply saying I told you so once, twice, or even a hundred times just somehow doesn't suffice to stick it to these rather extremely arrogant people. Toews must be exposed for what he is.

A consistently excellent and at times dominant two-way player?

He's struggling right now but he's certainly been a top 5 center for the majority of his career.

As for the OPs question, he's very very close.

 

[Balthazar]

As a Sabres fan I watch every game he plays and he is amazing to watch, never seen a player work as hard and as smart, he's a human border collie, almost as hairy. He's got some nifty moves too, would have more points but he's just not a natural goal scorer. His backhand is elite. I don't know his takeaway stats but he strips a ton of pucks and picks off many clear outs. Also amazing is I've never seen him really lay a bodycheck on anybody.

I see a lot of ROR in Bo Horvat.

He's not the fastest skater nor have the best shot but ROR's hockey IQ is easily top 10 in the NHL, possibly top 5. He's a work horse and so good at doing all the little things...you have to watch him do all those things night after night to fully appreciate.

Sabres fans realized what AVS fans were saying before the trade and unless he's traded again during his prime, no other fanbase will fully understand how good he truly is.

 

[Aladyyn]

Josh Gorges is >50% CF when on the ice with ROR.

He good.

Strictly possession-wise he's been ~Kopitar over the past 2 seasons. He's pretty much up there in ability, but will never be in name recognition.

 

[JaegerDice]

Josh Gorges is >50% CF when on the ice with ROR.

He good.

Strictly possession-wise he's been ~Kopitar over the past 2 seasons. He's pretty much up there in ability, but will never be in name recognition.

Its not like Kopitar has been a household name for his career...

 

[Aladyyn]

Its not like Kopitar has been a household name for his career...

Well winning 2 Cups obviously helps. I don't think ROR will ever get that recognition, as if and when Sabres become actually good he'll be overshadowed by Eichel.

Kind of how Jeff Carter gets underrated because Kopitar is on the team, except with swapped roles, I guess?

 

[SmellOfVictory]

There isn't much of a big 3 anymore. ... Toews defensive game isn't elite anymore, Bergeron can't score.

Giroux, Barkov, ROR are all on the same level or better 2 way guys. Kopitar is the best "2 way player" I suppose

One year removed from a 68 point season: "Bergeron can't score."

Its not like Kopitar has been a household name for his career...

He's had major recognition for a long time. When he first came into the league and I didn't pay as much attention to players outside the Flames, I knew he was considered an elite centre.

 

[nowhereman]

Actually, the top two-way guys are more along the lines of Crosby, McDavid, Tavares, Benn, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Malkin, etc.

I don't know why, how, why, or why, did I mention why... "two-way forward" has somehow evolved into meaning "best defensive forward who can also play a bit of offense too".

The phrase "best two-way forward" simply refers to the best forward when factoring in both offense and defense. That is STILL Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid, not Patrice Bergeron. Not even anywhere nearly close. Yes Patrice may be slightly better defensively, but he nowhere near makes up for it offensively thus being a worse two-way player. Get it?

Although I somewhat agree with what you've said and believe that defensive play is valued far too much in declaring someone a top two-way forward, I still believe that defensive capability should be a very strong asset in their game. I just don't consider someone like Stamkos to be a two-way forward.

I do, however, 100% agree that Sidney Crosby is the best two-way center in the NHL. IMO, he's a top 10-15 defensive center in the NHL (finished 7th in Selke voting) and one of the greatest offensive weapons of all time. Why does being a top 5 defensive player and a top 20-30 offensive player make you a better two-way player than a top 10-15 defensive center who's arguably a top 5-10 offensive talent of all time.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

if the Sabres start winning ROR will be considered one of the elite 2-way centers on reputation alone, it won't matter if he's actually an elite 2-way center

 

[Moskau]

Hes better than all 3 right now but not at the same level of those 3 when they were at the top of their game.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Its not like Kopitar has been a household name for his career...

Even casual fans have heard of Kopitars ability. I'm speaking from my circle of friends who are hardcore leafs fans but don't watch western teams very often, which is the case for most eastern conference fans. People are certainly aware of Kopitar, especially after winning cups and putting up points as a standout on a team that had some pretty big names in Doughty,Richards,Carter,Quick etc

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I would take ROR over all 3 right now.

QFT. Bergeron has especially been awful this year

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

That's actually not true since his rookie season he was a + player, but even so, he's played for Colorado and Buffalo. +/- doesn't really say all that much.

You would like to think with his 2 way game he could help his team from not sucking. That isn't the case.

Not in the conversation

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

I see a lot of lists being made. All excluding Nicklas Bäckström. Bad HF, bad!

 

[Elvs]

The phrase "best two-way forward" simply refers to the best forward when factoring in both offense and defense. That is STILL Sidney Crosby and Connor McDavid, not Patrice Bergeron. Not even anywhere nearly close. Yes Patrice may be slightly better defensively, but he nowhere near makes up for it offensively thus being a worse two-way player. Get it?

When I use the term "two way-forward", I typically use it to describe the playing style of a player. By my definition, Ryan Getzlaf (since you mentioned him), is a power forward/playmaker hybrid first and foremost, not a two way-player. But yeah, he's pretty underrated defensively, although he has his moments of brainfarts.

 

[authentic]

Although I somewhat agree with what you've said and believe that defensive play is valued far too much in declaring someone a top two-way forward, I still believe that defensive capability should be a very strong asset in their game. I just don't consider someone like Stamkos to be a two-way forward.

I do, however, 100% agree that Sidney Crosby is the best two-way center in the NHL. IMO, he's a top 10-15 defensive center in the NHL (finished 7th in Selke voting) and one of the greatest offensive weapons of all time. Why does being a top 5 defensive player and a top 20-30 offensive player make you a better two-way player than a top 10-15 defensive center who's arguably a top 5-10 offensive talent of all time.

That's a great question for a lot of people and one I'm sure they would be glad to explain, but the answer is... it doesn't. Crosby is the best two way forward in hockey and has been for years now.

 

[Jarey Curry]

There isn't much of a big 3 anymore. ... Toews defensive game isn't elite anymore, Bergeron can't score.

Giroux, Barkov, ROR are all on the same level or better 2 way guys. Kopitar is the best "2 way player" I suppose

Crosby says HI